Pimp my Rebel?

[Arsonist lolol]

Hey all, I'm planning on getting the 20D as my new camera, but it's a ways in the future, considering I don't have much money now, and no job :( And parents won't buy it for me until I'm fully enrolled in college (they want to make sure I really stick with photography)

I have the 300D now, and I was wondering if it was wroth it to go all out on it....meaning, buy it a grip, and a remote (will the rebel remote work with the 20D also? thought i heard something like that), and all that jazz. Or if I should just save my cash and wait for the 20D.

Thanks
-Chris

[Eric DeCastro]

just work with the rebel. the 20D isn't much of an upgrade if you ask me. unless you have totalled out grown your rebel. remeber is't 1% equipment and 99% operator.

[Digital Prophet]

I completely agree. The 20D has some nice features (9 Point AF, 8MP) but is it really the quantum leap that say moving from a 300 to a 1dsMkII is? No.

The cost difference is obvious. Cost of 20D vs. Rebel you already have + $100 (Grip) + $20 (Wired Remote). $120 is not alot to pay and won't set you that far back. Work with the Rebel and hone your art, save your cash and when the day comes go buy a 1D and get your freak on then.

- Digital Prophet -

[tim]

I think the 20D is a good jump from the 300D, having done it myself. AI serveo, metering modes, larger buffer, and faster operation and some of the main advantages.

In general, 300D accessories don't work with the 20D, and i'm sure neither the grip nor the IR or wired remotes for the 300D work on the 20D.

[Chazs]

I have to agree with Tim. The jump of from the DRebel to the 20D was entirely worth, with a big caveat..... I was being limited by several missing features and options on the DRebel. Sometimes it's hard to tell if you need more features without actually having a better camera, sort of a catch-22. But if you feal like the camera is holding you back a bit go for it. I'm glad I did.

[Southswede]

Add another one that made the same jump, to the 20D!

[Digital Prophet]

If you are an experienced photographer and have totally outgrown your Rebel, then yeah make the leap. But if not then I think he is better off with waiting. In the hands of a novice (not to say anyone here is one) a 1DsMkII isn't going to make a photo that is worth the cost difference between itself and a Rebel. While the gap in price is alot smaller here, so is the quality difference.

If he hasn't reached the point where the camera is limiting him then he is better off waiting than he would be if he ran out and got a camera that was even more complex that he still could not totally exploit the features of.

But that is just me. To each his own.

- Digital Prophet -

[RobbTC]

I had the 300D for about 3 months and after shooting two weddings (as a guest) and finding out how horrible the white balance was even with the hacked firmware, I just had to upgrade. Even if you don't go with the 20D, the 10D is even a 100% improvement over it. I went from the 300D to the 10D to the 20D all since last May.

You could always go to the new digi Rebel.

[Arsonist lolol]

Thank you all for the responses, excuse me for not responding; been having problems with my internet.

Now that I've stepped back to take a look at it, the Rebel isn't holding me back....I suppose it's my need to feel / look like a professional photographer that's telling me to get the 20D, don't really enjoy having a silver camera. Guess i have some growing up to do.

[PhotosGuy]

Why buy a grip? I carry 2 extra batteries & have never needed the 2nd one. By the time you add the weight of a 28-70 f/2.8 lens, the "package" is all the weight I need to carry.

[gastroboy]

a 20D still looks tiny when you stick a big lens and flash on it. looks a little weird actually, but not as weird as a 300D with the same stuff on it though.

if you wanna look like a pro, buy a beige fishing jacket! :-) its the cheaper option! :-)

[Arsonist lolol]

I'd like the grip for easier vertical shooting...would also rather not have to swtich batteries in the middle of shooting a concert..

or something like that, where every second counts

[DocFrankenstein]

I'd like the grip for easier vertical shooting...would also rather not have to swtich batteries in the middle of shooting a concert..

or something like that, where every second counts
Well, then you need a 20D at least. If every second counts and you have to wait for the buffer to clear, the grip won't help you.

It all depends on what you wanna do.

Rebel takes pictures and the sensor is decent. Beautiful prints at 8*12. So setting this thing to manual and looking at the histogram gives you a very powerful tool in creating "art"

On the other hand, once you start to be more demanding of your equipment, you have serious technical difficulties with it:
No selection of metering modes
Limited custom functions
Very dim viewfinder
Limited shutter life
Low fps
Noisier at high ISO
Small buffer, slow write times
The AI servo sucks
Manual focusing is pretty much impossible

I don't know what you shoot and what your requirements are.

But you can consider investing in something else besides the 20D. Maybe a film body+darkroom. A decent tripod. Or a lens collection...

As to the grip, I want one myself. But I haven't justified the cost of getting one yet because I know it's gonna be worthless in a few years.

[BrandonSi]

Thank you all for the responses, excuse me for not responding; been having problems with my internet.

Now that I've stepped back to take a look at it, the Rebel isn't holding me back....I suppose it's my need to feel / look like a professional photographer that's telling me to get the 20D, don't really enjoy having a silver camera. Guess i have some growing up to do.


Nah, I went through the same thing, even came very close to having a friend in Japan pick me up a black 300D, but when it comes down to it, it's the photos that are going to make you look like the pro, not the camera. I've been able to do some decent action/concert shooting the with 300D, granted I was using the 50mm 1.8 for the concert and rented a decent 70-300mm lens for action, but until you get a lot of experience and really find yourself being limited, stick with the rebel, build up the lens collection and then down the line pick up the 20d (or whatever is out then.)

As far as the grip, I've had it on the camera since Day 1, never taken it off. I love it , I love it, I love it. Love the feel, the battery life and the extra weight added helps compensate for camera shake. I don't think I'll ever buy another dSLR without the appropriate grip.

[Medic1]

I say look at your style of photography. Me, I do mostly aviation. The advantage of the true AI servo and AI focus along with the larger buffer capacity made the jump to the 20D worth it.

If your not shooting moving subjects alot of the time, and aren't shooting off bursts of more then 4 at once then I think the Drebel will suffice.

[Arsonist lolol]

As of now I do Macro, Concert (just starting), and Band Promo Portraits soon....The 20D does have a wicked buffer....and doesn't give a lot of noise on high ISO; which I use in concerts. I'm just using NoiseNinja for the Rebel @ 800 or 1600.

[BrandonSi]

As of now I do Macro, Concert (just starting), and Band Promo Portraits soon....The 20D does have a wicked buffer....and doesn't give a lot of noise on high ISO; which I use in concerts. I'm just using NoiseNinja for the Rebel @ 800 or 1600.

Yeah, high ISO noise does suck on the 300D. I neatimage all of my concert shots.. but you can still get some good ones, here are some I took. and neatimage is cheaper than a 20D in my book ;)

http://photos8.flickr.com/10419539_1be3b3a173.jpg
http://photos7.flickr.com/10419580_2decd64532.jpg
http://photos5.flickr.com/10419540_980001c32f.jpg

[AjP]

As of now I do Macro, Concert (just starting), and Band Promo Portraits soon....The 20D does have a wicked buffer....and doesn't give a lot of noise on high ISO; which I use in concerts. I'm just using NoiseNinja for the Rebel @ 800 or 1600.
I'm confused, are you talking about 300d or 20d, 20d is muzh better buffer and low noise then 300d, 20d has same chipset as MarkII, and it is much better made and functionaly then 300d
20D is semi-pro 300d is not, what to compare and why to spent money now and then in a year figure out that 300d is not enough, my personal opinion 20d worth every penny, even so it is not Mark II (that is perfect) it is still really nice semi-pro camera out there

[BrandonSi]

I'm confused, are you talking about 300d or 20d, 20d is muzh better buffer and low noise then 300d, 20d has same chipset as MarkII, and it is much better made and functionaly then 300d
20D is semi-pro 300d is not, what to compare and why to spent money now and then in a year figure out that 300d is not enough, my personal opinion 20d worth every penny, even so it is not Mark II (that is perfect) it is still really nice semi-pro camera out there


What part of "The 20D does have a wicked buffer....and doesn't give a lot of noise on high ISO" confused you?

[DocFrankenstein]

20d has same chipset as MarkII
Where did you hear that? :confused:

[Andy_T]

I'd rather get some nice glass ... your 300D will never feel the same.

The most affordable next step might be the Tamron 28-75/2.8 XR DI ... much of the image quality of the 24-70, but without the price. It's a great walk-around lens.

Best regards,
Andy

[AjP]

Where did you hear that? :confused:
I'm talking about Image Processor DIGIC II in both EOS 20 and Mark II, but we are not talking here about comparing 20D with Mark II, he was talking about 20D vs. 300D!!!!!!!!!!!
especially buffer, 20D has bigger buffer then 300D for sure!!!!

20D vs. 300D

* ISO PERFORMANCE
When you've tried the 20D at high ISO in those low light conditions you will love it. The 300D has ISO 1600 (but you can use the firmware hack to open up 3200) and while the performance is certainly not bad, it is nothing compared to the WOW of the 20D.


* AUTO FOCUS POINTS
The 20D has 9 Auto Focus points. The 300D has 7. It may not seem like much but in the heat of the moment it certainly does help out a bit.


* FASTEST SHUTTER
The 20D has a maximum shutter speed of 1/8000 while the 300D has a maximum shutter speed of 1/4000. Most people will never use speeds this high, but if it is something you think you need, it is a nice advantage.


* FLASH SYNC CAPABILITY
If you want to use strobes at all you will almost definitely want a flash sync port. The 20D has one, the 300D does not. Hot shoe adapters are available however.


* METERING FREEDOM
As walter mentioned, the 300D restricts what metering modes you can use by which picture mode you are currently in. The 20D allows any metering mode to be used in any picture mode. Once you start getting into photography more and more this will really frustrate you.


* BURST SPEED / BUFFER SIZE
There is no comparison here, if you like shooting any sort of sport/action then the 20D wins hands down. Maximum burst speed of 5 frames per second against the 300D speed of 2.5 frames per second. Not only is it faster but it can do it for MUCH longer too. The 300D can maintain its 2.5 fps speed for 4 frames - thats not even a seconds worth of burst before it slows down. The 20D can fire at 5 fps for 23 frames before it slows down. Thats over 4 seconds worth of burst! These numbers are only if you are shooting in JPEG. The 20D can still shoot RAW at 5 fps, but not for as long (obviously).

Also note that the 20D can write seperate RAW and JPEG files. When you shoot both together on the 300D the JPEG is embedded into the RAW file.


* MIRROR LOCK-UP
The 20D has mirror lock-up, the 300D does not. If you want Pin sharp images then mirror lock up is 100% recommended, especially when using slower shutter speeds. The Firmware hack will enable mirror lock up on the 300D.


* EXTENDED BATTERY LIFE
I don't know figures, but the 20D has a longer battery life than the 300D. I am constantly amazed by the life of the 20D - I use it for days without charging it.


* FASTER X-SYNC
The 20D flash X-Sync speed is 1/250, the 300D is 1/200. This won't be important if you're not a flash user, and even if you are you might not ever want a faster sync - but if you do then great.


* E-TTL II
The 20D supports E-TTL II while the 300D does not. Currently the only E-TTL II flash available is the 580EX but if you want the best results from on board flash then this combination is far more consistent.


* BODY DURABILITY
The 20D has a magnesium alloy body and is darn tough. The 300D is made of plastic. Which do YOU think will survive a drop?


* CUSTOM FUNCTIONS
There are 18 Custom Functions on the 20D with 50 settings. These allow you to customise the camera to your shooting style, put settings where you want them etc. The 300D has none.

[David1943]

I bought my 300D Kit last year and have been very happy with it. Yes, it has limitations but these don't much affect the types of photography I do. I like the grip but wouldn't miss it much if I didn't have it. I began my photohraphy way back in the 1960's when amateurs simply didn't have such things. We also learnt to measure exposures using our meters and to transfer them on to our cameras manually.

I shall certainly keep my 300D at least until Canon bring out a successor to the 20D when I might either try to get a 20D at discount or buy the new model if it seems significantly better than the 20D.

Regards, David

[Arsonist lolol]

Yeah Andy, I think I'll work with glass for now. And that Tamron will be my next addition to the collection

[skyphix]

I'd like a 20D ... when I have outgrown my 300D in all aspects of the photography I'm interested in.

Get a grip (literally). I love mine.

I dont like neck straps, so next time Im at the photo store I'll be getting a hand strap.

I dont have a remote, but Ive got no need for one yet.

[rich_yau]

Digic 2

[DavidEB]

Arsonist -- Your insight is admirable.

Some arguments against upgrad (custom for you) -- 1) Anything you buy for the rebel can be resold for, say, 70-80% of its cost. If you can find secondhand, then you'll be able to resell for the same amount as you bought for. The cable release can be resold (rebel release doesn't work on 20D) 2) the faster 50mm f1.4 might do as well for you in low light as the better noise performance of the 20D, and will be a long-lasting investment. The hack software will get you mirror lockup (for macro) and higher ISO (for concerts, use noise software) 3) Shoot a few concerts and convince yourself that you've outgrown the rebel before upgrading. 4) Once you get in college, you will learn lots of new stuff and might find that lenses, tripods, etc are more what you need than 20D. 5) all technology purchases -- if you don't have a pressing need, wait and get something better later, for less money. 6) Delay upgrade until you have solid reasons will impress parents with your fiscal responsibility (as parent of two teens, I know this).

reasons to upgrade now -- things people above said.



best wishes, happy shooting,

David