Insurance question...

[JtheVGKing]

Hey guys,

I have a personal article policy with State Farm which covers all of my photo equipment. However, when I called them today to add some new gear, they asked if it was for my personal use or if I was making money off of it. I said it was for personal use, but I am a professional photographer and it is my job to take photos obviously. Does anyone know what the difference in policies is if its for personal use or for professional use? Thanks!

[DonW]

They dont have to pay the claim if your using the property for business. Business insurance is more expensive partly due to the fact that there is more risk to the insurance company. It works both ways they arent going to insure non business equipment on a business policy either.

Don

[JtheVGKing]

Hmmm, well should I transfer my personal articles plan to a business plan or just leave it the same? Because technically the studio I work for has all Nikon equipment, and thus the Nikon equipment is what I use for business and the Canon equipment is what I use for personal use....Damn, I don't want to end up paying a **** load for insurance, but I don't want to commit insurance fraud either ;)

[DonW]

You should have two policies if you want to be insured. I assume your like everyone else and you write off your business equipment on your taxes. A double edge sword as far as this topic is concerned. Personal equipment is hard to prove but not impossible since like you said Nikon for one and Canon for the other. I doubt they would question either as long as you had two seperate policies. I got burned years ago by farmers and learned my leason.

Don

[shaggymatt]

Because technically the studio I work for has all Nikon equipment, and thus the Nikon equipment is what I use for business...

I assume that is YOUR studio? If it is, you should have business insurance on the studio. Someone knocks over a lightstand and injures themself, that is where your business liability kicks in. Your State Farm policy for your personal gear isn't going to cover that. Personal policies don't typically cover Errors and Omissions, Business liabilities, computers for editing, and never when gear when used to make money.

There is a negligible price difference between your local agent and a specialty company (I use Hill & Usher) for a business policy. You get Errors and Omissions from H&U which you won't from your local agent on a marine policy.

[cory1848]

Doesn't matter what the camera make is. There have been stories where insurance companies check up on their clients, and if they even see a website offering photos for sale, they deny claims. I wouldnt risk it and right now you are wasting money on the personal articles policy. Time to upgrade to a commercial policy.

[Patrick]

I've got State Farm for auto and home insurance. They wouldn't cover my business unless I was operating from a studio only. I went to a different company for business insurance. I would have liked to stay with State Farm since I would have received a discount for having multiple policies.

I've got all of my ducks in a row as far as personal vs. business is concerned. The last thing I want is any insurance company trying to weasel their way out of paying a claim.

[TheFloridaShooter]

It cost me .16 cents more per $100.00 of value to insure my camera stuff as a professional through State Farm. Worth the difference for being honest. Just in case of a claim.

[hypertech]

That's strange you couldn't use State Farm for business. Thats all I have with them and I don't have a studio. We do all location work. It was less than $300 for $20k in replacement equipment and $1M of liability.

[Patrick]

I thought it was strange too. I think a lot of it has to do with your state, the agent, and who they talk to at the corporate office.

[charger912]

That's strange you couldn't use State Farm for business. Thats all I have with them and I don't have a studio. We do all location work.

It's not neccessarily strange. I know that a few of the carriers I write through have seperate ratings and classifications for studio vs location photographers. It actually makes me wonder how your agent has you rated; assuming State Farm seperates studio and location work.

One thing to keep in mind about asking questions regarding any insurance, is that policies definately vary on their coverages from company to company. ;)

[Patrick]

I'm not sure what you mean by rated. I'm in the "Premier" or "Mutual" or whatever they call it group since I have had multiple policies for years with no claims.

[charger912]

I don't sell through State Farm so I'm not exactly sure what all goes into the "Premier" or "Mutual" groups.

As for as the rating, it is the base factor of x-amount of dollars multiplied by each $1,000 sales (for general liability) or property. Each individual coverage purchased in a policy has it's own dollar amount (rate) that is mutliplied by the amount of coverage being requested. (Not sure if this makes sense to you but it does to me!) Also, each classification by business type has it's own rate that's based on the amount of risk involved in that business type. There's a ton of statistical analysis that goes into determining a rate so I'm won't go much further with it. If you want to get in depth, remember... Google is your friend! Hope this helps at least a little. :)

[TeenPhotog]

Sorry for bringing back a dead thread, but if I just had a hobbyist policy and I also made money from photography...
If my equipment were damaged while 'hobbying' would my claim be valid?
Would my claim be valid if my equipment were damaged while shooting professionally?

[RDKirk]

It's not neccessarily strange. I know that a few of the carriers I write through have seperate ratings and classifications for studio vs location photographers. It actually makes me wonder how your agent has you rated; assuming State Farm seperates studio and location work.

One thing to keep in mind about asking questions regarding any insurance, is that policies definately vary on their coverages from company to company. ;)

And within a company they vary enormously from state to state depending on state insurance laws and state case law.

They can also vary depending on what the agent is willing to sell. It's not impossible for a given agent to decide that he just doesn't want to be bothered by a certain type of coverage. But that would have to be an agent who is doing extremely well otherwise (I do know of insurance agents who actually have all the business they want).

But, hey, there are certainly some kinds of photography jobs I won't take myself.

[RDKirk]

Sorry for bringing back a dead thread, but if I just had a hobbyist policy and I also made money from photography...
If my equipment were damaged while 'hobbying' would my claim be valid?
Would my claim be valid if my equipment were damaged while shooting professionally?

Yes to the first, no to the second. But the smart thing, if you do any professional shooting, would be to get the professional policy and make any claim toward the applicable policy. A good agent who has all your insurance business will work with you to your benefit when everything is above-board with her. My agent has done several "we can do this, but let's not tell the company" things for me in order to keep my business.

[egordon99]

Sorry for bringing back a dead thread, but if I just had a hobbyist policy and I also made money from photography...
If my equipment were damaged while 'hobbying' would my claim be valid?
Would my claim be valid if my equipment were damaged while shooting professionally?

Call your insurance company. We have NO (absolutely NO NO NO NO) idea what your policy states.

[TaggM]

The easiest way to get the correct answer to the personal use versus non-personal use question is to ask your insurance carrier for a letter explaining under which circumstances a claim would be denied.

Although I have yet to earn a single penny from my photographs, I bound to a Commercial Inland Marine insurance policy (with State Farm) with global coverage for up to $12,000 in replacement value of my camera gear at under $300/year with a $100 per claim deductible. This policy is distinct from the home owners insurance policy and a claim would not affect my future ability to obtain a new policy for home owners insurance or to continue/maintain the existing home owners insurance policy. It is also separate from the business liability insurance policy.

A separate business liability insurance policy (with State Farm) which covers general business liability, computer equipment, office equipment, business personal property, loss of actual business income, medical payments to others harmed, and a rider for up to $15,000 for "accidental direct loss ... to the computer data in computer memory or on computer storage media used in your business" AKA reconstructing a lost/destroyed portfolio is at under $400/year with a $500 per claim deductible. For the record, the rider's coverage significantly exceeds those advertised by Hill and Usher ( http://packagechoice.com ) Contents Coverage, and TCP ( http://www.tcpinsurance.com/photographer.html ) Portfolio Coverage. $400/year, even $35/month, is a nominal business expense for the peace of mind which that policy will provide to me and my clients.

As a new and mobile photographer, my insurance rates are probably higher than those for professional photographers who have been established in the industry for more than three years and who operate in a physical studio inside one building.

The only line item offered by Hill and Usher ( http://packagechoice.com ), and TCP ( http://www.tcpinsurance.com/photographer.html ) which I know that State Farm does not is Errors and Omissions. It is possible to get a separate insurance policy (just not via State Farm) strictly for Errors and Omissions. While TCP advertises the optional Errors and Omissions Coverage for an "[a]dditional $150 per Year", I would expect the exact amount to vary depending upon negotiated details.

[RDKirk]

The easiest way to get the correct answer to the personal use versus non-personal use question is to ask your insurance carrier for a letter explaining under which circumstances a claim would be denied.

I doubt there will come a detailed response to that. They're going to keep the claims adjudication process in very broad terms for legal reasons.

The only line item offered by Hill and Usher ( http://packagechoice.com (http://packagechoice.com/) ), and TCP ( http://www.tcpinsurance.com/photographer.html (http://www.tcpinsurance.com/photographer.html) ) which I know that State Farm does not is Errors and Omissions. It is possible to get a separate insurance policy (just not via State Farm) strictly for Errors and Omissions. While TCP advertises the optional Errors and Omissions Coverage for an "[a]dditional $150 per Year", I would expect the exact amount to vary depending upon negotiated details.

I get "errors and omissions" coverage for $50 per year through the Indemnity Trust as a benefit of PPA membership.

[TaggM]

I get "errors and omissions" coverage for $50 per year through the Indemnity Trust as a benefit of PPA membership.

Thanks! Hopefully, my PPA application will go through soon and I can review that coverage with a potential outside carrier.

[TeenPhotog]

thanks all. this confirms what I believed