Shooting VB in a school gym?

[Dinomite]

Can anyone help me with the settings required to do this... I am having a hard time with it. I get really yellow results or a lot of blur.

I am shooting with a 7D and have a 24-70mm 2.8L and a 75-300mm USM

Where should I start? I bumped the ISO right up and it was too washed... I added my speedlite and then I had way too much shadows...

Thanks...

[Golferdude1977]

When I shoot VB, I am usually shooting ambient lighting. My settings the other night were ISO 3200, F2.5, SS around 1/1000. I was using my 135 L lens. When I use my 70-200 2.8 L, I usually endup going ISO 6400, 2.8, and trying to get 1/800 at the slowest. When I shot with my 24-70 2.8, it was ISO6400, 2.8, and 1/1000 ss. Most school gyms are terrible to shoot in. You will need some good glass, 2.8 and better, and shoot ISO 3200 most likely. When I use my 85 1.8, I can go F2.0, ISO 2500, and get 1/800.

When using a speedlite, I never have it on the camera. It is on the rail of the bleacher bouncing off the ceiling, and I have two, one on each side. I am looking into getting some strobes to make it even easier, I hope.

VB in high schools is tough to shoot due to the poor lighting conditions. The yellow is from the lighting in the gym. Gyms are famous for the lights cycling which will cause WB issues. Plus if the bulbs haven't been changed in a while, that will cause it to be even worse as far as WB and brightness.

How high did you push your ISO? You will need to stick with your 24-70 2.8L lens and push the ISO.

This picture was with my 24-70 2.8L lens, ISO 3200, 2.8, 1/500.

http://jdisler.smugmug.com/photos/666601018_uvgT6-L.jpg

Jimmy

[Jaime R]

The 75-300 is going to be way to slow for VB...

However with a 24-70mm 2.8, the 1.6 crop on your 7d (congrats) is going to turn into a 114mm on the high end which will be much closer. Shoot at 2.8 and don't be afraid to pump up the ISO to 3200 shoot Small Raw if you can so you can underexpose and regain highlights in post. Aside from that shooting Volleyball is much like playing it, you have to practice alot to get the shots you want.

[PhotosGuy]

I almost never use the f/2.8 lenses for vball anymore. Think about a 85mm f/1.8 & bouncing your strobe.

Post #15 in Curtis's excellent thread: No more excuses about high ceilings and bounced flash (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=451770)

See the link to: Strobe sync @ 1/400: Pushing the limits.
St. Louis vs. Breckenridge Volleyball District Tournament 11/7/2008 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=599506) never use the f/2.8 lenses for vball anymore. Wait, I'll take that back. I put on a big lens, like the 70-200 f/2.8 (for the respect factor) & go talk to the head ref & explain that I know direct flash isn't allowed, & ask if bounced flash off the ceiling would be OK, there's a good chance that he/she will give permission. ;)

[Dinomite]

When I shoot VB, I am usually shooting ambient lighting. My settings the other night were ISO 3200, F2.5, SS around 1/1000. I was using my 135 L lens. When I use my 70-200 2.8 L, I usually endup going ISO 6400, 2.8, and trying to get 1/800 at the slowest. When I shot with my 24-70 2.8, it was ISO6400, 2.8, and 1/1000 ss. Most school gyms are terrible to shoot in. You will need some good glass, 2.8 and better, and shoot ISO 3200 most likely. When I use my 85 1.8, I can go F2.0, ISO 2500, and get 1/800.

When using a speedlite, I never have it on the camera. It is on the rail of the bleacher bouncing off the ceiling, and I have two, one on each side. I am looking into getting some strobes to make it even easier, I hope.

VB in high schools is tough to shoot due to the poor lighting conditions. The yellow is from the lighting in the gym. Gyms are famous for the lights cycling which will cause WB issues. Plus if the bulbs haven't been changed in a while, that will cause it to be even worse as far as WB and brightness.

How high did you push your ISO? You will need to stick with your 24-70 2.8L lens and push the ISO.

This picture was with my 24-70 2.8L lens, ISO 3200, 2.8, 1/500.

http://jdisler.smugmug.com/photos/666601018_uvgT6-L.jpg

Jimmy

What did you use for a flash on this photo? Were you in TV or shooting M? Here is a link to some of my crappy pics from the game...

http://cifaldi.info/PanthersVB/ats00000.htm

EXIF included...

[Golferdude1977]

What did you use for a flash on this photo? Were you in TV or shooting M?

I didn't use a flash. I shoot manual for indoor vb or basketball. I have a better overall set of pictures. I will shoot a AV picture with my camera set on F2.8. This will give me a starting point for my shutter speed. I then switch to manual, set av to 2.8 and the shutter speed to what ever it was in the photo I just took. Take a couple of pictures of various scenes to see how the settings are looking.

My settins were F2.8, 1/500 and ISO 3200.

As others have said, the 85 1.8 lens is a good lens to use for indoor sports. I use it also. I was just showing what I do with my 24-70 2.8. Alot will depend on the gym's lighting your shooting at.

[Jaime R]

Are you shooting in the P mode? Try shooting at TV or AV.. I noticed only a few times did your aperture hit 2.8 and most of the time it was at 4.0..

Looks like its hard to shoot the server(s) from one side of the court as theres a glass door exposing sunlight, so try shooting from the sides to keep an even exposure.

[kayintveen]

I think it depends on the venue, but somewhere around 3200 2.8 should work. as long as you keep above 1/400.. think 640 is way more ideal.
but i think you ok with this.
but yeah still, bad venue is bad lightning and you should go higher on iso, but then you can better nog shoot i think ;)

Strobing is a idea aswell. but then try 2 or 4 strobes attached to the walls on both sides triggered by pocket wizards. i think nobody will be irritated by this and works awesome. but its hell lot a job..

Hope to post something like this soon on: http://sports-photography-blog.com

[JPR Images]

I too primarily use my 85mm f1.8 because most gyms are too dark for my 2.8 lens. So in a typical gym I am at ISO 1600 - 2000, f1.8, and shutter speeds of 640 to 800. Here is an example using those settings. More examples at www.jprimages.com
http://jprimages.com/img/v4/p697392324-4.jpg

[Dinomite]

Golferdude & JPR, it looks like you used flash? So you didn't even use the pop-up?
Nice results... I am going to shoot another game tomorrow night and I am going to try and shoot M at 3200 2.8....

Wish me luck... I know that this school doesn't have a set of glass doors...

[Golferdude1977]

No flash, my camera doesn't have a pop up flash. This gym is lit pretty good. Take a shot in manual, check your histogram. If you need more exposure, you will need to lower your shutter speed. I wouldn't go below 1/400. And if you have to shoot a little under exposed, you can bring it up in post processing. It will bring more noise into the picture, but at least you will have minimized the blur by not having a fast enough shutter speed.
I was shooting in AV for a couple of years but now shoot manual. I have a better keep ratio, as far as exposure, shooting manual.

[sducotey]

My daughter's gym has very poor lighting for shooting VB. I will normally shoot at ISO 3200 so I can increase the shutter speed as much as possible. Another photographer recommended also adjusting the exposure compensation to purposely under exposure the picture to allow for a faster shutter speed and fix the exposure using software. Is this a good idea or will I get too much noise because of the under exposing and the high ISO setting. I am shooting in RAW format.

Thanks for you help.

Steve

[Golferdude1977]

Ideally the gym would be lit good enough that you wouldn't have to be under exposed to get a good shutter speed. But as most of us have seen, it usually is the opposite. So in order to get a good shutter speed, you might end up having to push the shutter speed up which will end up under exposing the picture. You will bring the exposure back up in post processing, and yes it will introduce more noise, and I use Neat Image to remove my noise.

I have been shooting some ISO 6400, 2.8, and still having to under expose.

This picture was taken ISO 6400, 2.8, 1/1000 shutter speed. It was under exposed. In Bridge I added +.70 exposure to bring it up to the correct exposure.

http://jdisler.smugmug.com/photos/666554586_sgJJV-L.jpg

[JPR Images]

I did not use flash in the photo above and have not used a flash for any of my volleyball photos. My camera does not have a built in flash. The settings on the photo above were: ISO 2000, 85mm, 1/500 sec at f1.8, shot in aperture priority mode. Picture shot in jpeg mode and was processed in Lightroom.

[djvkool]

I don't think flash would be allowed, even for ceiling-bounced, I play indoor beach volleyball, the other night there is someone from the local council (county) came in and took some photographs to promote the sport in their new brochure, I was playing and after few flashes I got upset because the flash really got to my nerves, but then the photog pulled out an umbrella, which helped to isolate the spread of the flash, and everybody (me included) were happy :)

[MT Stringer]

Here's my example. It was really dim light in the gym. I looked around to see if all of the lights were on, but they were! :-(
So, I shot the game in RAW, tweaked exposure as necessary in DPP, converted to jpg, ran them through Noiseware.

Canon 1D MK III, 135L f/2

Mike
Shooting settings: ISO 6400, manual exposure, 1/400 sec, f/2.0!

[Dinomite]

Well that was much better!!! I posted the pics on the following link without any processing... These are straight out of the camera...

http://cifaldi.info/vbbernadettes/ats00000.htm

The images are not as brilliant as yours, but at least they are not yellow...

What post prossesing are you doning to get your images so awesome!

[PM01]

For indoor sports I usually rely on two lenses.

85 1.2L EF II.
200 1.8 L EF.

The 135/2 is also an excellent lens.

[Dinomite]

Golferdude, How is this set?

[Golferdude1977]

Dinomite,

Pictures def. look better. When you upload pictures and want someone to critique them, make sure you include the exif info. It is hard for me to see what the camera was set at and what lens you were using. As far as positioning, it doesn't look like you have much choice as the gym is pretty small. Will they let you shoot from the officials side? If so, I would shoot some from that side and work on getting more of the faces in the pictures. The more you shoot the better your timing will get.

As far as my pictures, I will crop them to my liking, and run an action in photoshop. It calls for noise reduction through neat image. The action is the FlexNR action that is stickied in the post processing forum. It is only for a 1D Mark III camera. But I have used Neat Image for about 5 years, starting with a 20-D.