Yes. What should I charge?

[Tumeg]

I'll just cut to the point.
I got this e-mail (below), and I need some help with a quote.

That's basically it :)

I was referred to you by ------. Our Girl Scout Troop is looking for a photographer for our Father Daughter Dance event on December 4, 2009. The event is primarily run, as most of the Girl Scout Events are, by volunteers; therefore, we have limited amount of resources to give. We're looking to see if you will be able to do the event for us. The event is attended by Fathers with their daughters and for about the last year 4 years the event has proven a well attended event with attendance of about 240 couples. What we need is for someone to take the pictures of each of the couples that attends the event and the event is from 6 to 9 pm on a Friday night. We'd like to know if you are able to do the event and what the cost will be. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely: ------

Thanks for your help! :)

[xn2b8r]

That's one couple every 45 seconds!

[korrektor]

mission impossible. charge 10K and run :)

[Tumeg]

That's one couple every 45 seconds!

Exactly what I said\thought...

I figure I would be early, and people wouldn't all arrive EXACTLY at 6pm, so it could go down to one couple ever minute :D


Back to the point;
I assume I will need to figure out my 'overhead' for the shoot, for renting the lighting equipment (I just have a 430EX. Nothing else), so I went online to price out the rentals, and I discovered... I'm not too sure what lighting equipment I need. (I assume I could get by with 2 580EX II's, ST-E2, umbrellas, and stands... right?)

[korrektor]

get profoto AcuteB from Samy's if you can. it's 50 bucks a day.

[Tumeg]

get profoto AcuteB from Samy's if you can. it's 50 bucks a day.

Is that all that I need? :confused: (Yes, I'm a noob when it comes to lighting-gear)

EDIT: I assume you mean this:

KIT ACUTE B600R PROFOTO
• Battery, battery charger & 2 sync cord
• Extra Battery
• Acute Head w/ Profoto Disc reflector
= $70

[korrektor]

ok $70 will do it. They raised the prices I guess. Set up a reflector on the opposite side from the light. Place it the beauty dish at a angle (raise it up slightly and pace left or right of the cam (practice on a couple first and get it right. That 's essential).
shoot the up.

[Tumeg]

ok $70 will do it. They raised the prices I guess. Set up a reflector on the opposite side from the light. Place it the beauty dish at a angle (raise it up slightly and pace left or right of the cam (practice on a couple first and get it right. That 's essential).
shoot the up.

The beauty dish... Is that the "profoto disc reflector"?

[korrektor]

yeah :)

[korrektor]

oh snap - I think it's an umbrella reflector. clarify that first :)

[sevillafox]

Seriously?

Don't do it. They're expecting someone who would know how to work with lights. If you're not familiar with them you're going to cause yourself more problems than anything.

But, if you do do it...quote them a package price per couple and make sure couples prepay.

[Trainboy]

Run away. Fast. It would take a good pro to pull this off.

[shaggymatt]

You could treat it as a production line. Setup right by the entrance so you capture the couples as they come in. Put a backdrop in place. Have the lights all set up. Drop your camera on the tripod, same distance, same lighting, lather, rinse, and repeat. Not terribly difficult.

Are they looking for a print of each person? DVD of all images? That makes a huge difference in your pricing model.

[Todd Lambert]

I did something similar for a charity ball. I charged $20 a shot. I setup at the entrance (it was actually a lounge area where they served cocktails) and shot people as they came in. It was pretty hectic at times, but I managed. I didn't get everyone as some people just refused to be photographed, but I got quite a few. Once the ball started, everyone went inside to their tables and I closed up shop and left.

I ended up making about $2500 for about an hours worth of shooting time + an hour of setup and teardown. I then donated half of the earnings to the cause.

[shaggymatt]

ps. Not sure if you are operating as a business now or not. I'd also make sure that you are insured. Last thing you want is someone tripping over a lightstand and injuring themselves. Can never be too safe in this litigious time we live in.

[Tumeg]

You could treat it as a production line. Setup right by the entrance so you capture the couples as they come in. Put a backdrop in place. Have the lights all set up. Drop your camera on the tripod, same distance, same lighting, lather, rinse, and repeat. Not terribly difficult.

Are they looking for a print of each person? DVD of all images? That makes a huge difference in your pricing model.

Exactly what I was thinking to do...

I got some more info from the woman in charge, and it looks like they are looking to get one 5x7 print for each PERSON (2 prints per couple).
So I gave her a price for this.

She said that they charge $6 per PERSON, entry fee... This money has to go towards anything and everything, so I made sure to price the prints accordingly.

She then said that, that would be it. But I offered to upload all of the photos into an online gallery where people can order more prints (where I will make the REAL money, off this shoot).
She liked that idea.

I will be renting the lighting equipment for the week, just so I can have plenty of time to play around with it all.
I don't plan on using a backdrop, just because I think it would look nice(er) to have the room be the backdrop, rather than a flat black or white color. (I may change my mind on this)

I'm still trying to work some more information out of her, so I can get a more accurate quote\decision on the shoot...

[cchooks]

<<< by volunteers; therefore, we have limited amount of resources to give. >>>

Translation: God will bless you if you do this free.

<<< The event is attended by Fathers with their daughters and for about the last year 4 years the event has proven a well attended event with attendance of about 240 couples. >>>

Translation: See how much money you cam make if you charge them and not us.... You could make millions of dollars and everyone will buy from you, everyone will cheer your name and called you blessed....

<<< What we need is for someone to take the pictures of each of the couples that attends the event >>>

Translation: Don't charge us, but we want access to have and use these images, because we know you are going to volunteer and make a million dollars and we are making all of this possible for you.....

<<< if you are able to do the event and what the cost will be. I look forward to hearing from you soon. >>>

Translation: We hope that you are new enough in the business not to have fallen for this already, and that you are licking your chops at all the business you can possibly make, so please don't charge us anything because we will make you a very wealthy man....

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, Thanks but no thanks...

[amfoto1]

I did something similar for a charity ball. I charged $20 a shot. I setup at the entrance (it was actually a lounge area where they served cocktails) and shot people as they came in. It was pretty hectic at times, but I managed. I didn't get everyone as some people just refused to be photographed, but I got quite a few. Once the ball started, everyone went inside to their tables and I closed up shop and left.

I ended up making about $2500 for about an hours worth of shooting time + an hour of setup and teardown. I then donated half of the earnings to the cause.

I've done something similar to this, too.

One way to handle it is to work with the organizer to build the price of a single 5x7, possibly in one of those mat/folders, into the ticket price. That way you are guaranteed it will be worth your while.

Yes, it has to be highly organized and you have to get each couple as they come in the door.

Then do lots of walk-around candid shots during dinner, dancing etc. Or have a second shooter do it if you are still shooting at the entrance.

I suggest you not try to print onsite. That takes extra people and puts a lot of pressure on you. Get everyone's address and mail out later (or have them come to a web site and choose their image, then use an online vendor to handle printing and shipping to avoid having a crush of work yourself.... Possible vendors: Printroom.com, Exposure Manager, etc.).

Yes, feel free to post images online after the fact.... However, do not rely on sales after the fact alone and just shoot everything on spec. The online will be for additional prints only and for the candid shots you took, and you won't see a whole lot of sales in all likelihood. You will see a lot of the participants bringing their own cameras or taking shots with camera phones. Those people are unlikely to buy from you unless your photos are a whole lot better than they are able to take themselves.

You must get a guarantee of sale to make it worth your while.

$6 is darned cheap. No wonder they have so many couples attending. By building in the price of a single 5x7 (say $10) into the ticket price, you get some sort of guarantee.

Back in the days of film, we charged the organizer at least a "guarantee against sales" up front to shoot this sort of thing. Had to cover our film and processing expenses. Now, with everyone thinking "digital is free" (hint, it's not) that sort of thing has pretty much gone by the board.

Whatever you do, get it in writing. You need to have a contract with the organizer. That should give you exclusivity to shoot and market images to the participants (but doesn't prevent people from taking their own shots).

If they won't agree to these terms, I wouldn't take on the job, personally. It's too likely to turn out to be a whole lot of work for little or no reward.

[jpwone]

I shoot celebrity sports events/shows. Basically these are a show or event where a limited number of VIP tickets are sold and then the VIP ticket holders get to meet the celebrity and have their photo taken with them. The photo is printed on site and signed and returned to the guest before the evening is over.

Basics first. You need insurance and you need at least two of every bit of kit you will use. You need to find out if it is a 'pre-paid' photo or a 'shoot on spec' photo. The pre-paid ones are where the ticket price includes the photo. These are the better ones from a photographers point of view as you know that everybody who comes through the door is going to be photographed. On spec is where you shoot and display and they then decide to purchase or not.

Pre-paid and print requires really good organisation. We can shoot a couple every 14 seconds on average. Approx 4 a minute.

On spec is easier from an organisation point of view but if you are going to do on the night printing or sales you will need to either print contact sheets and put these up for display so that people can choose the image for order/print or you need viewing terminals. On-spec also has moments when the queue seems to go out the door and at other times you are twiddling thumbs. If you are shooting on-spec then get the event organisers to give everyone a small leaflet as they come through the door with how it works and pricing.

Pre-paid requires every couple to have a picture 'ticket' given to them as they come through the door. They can then redeem the ticket by getting their photo taken.

For 240 couples you will need proper lights. On board flash will not do the job. You will burn out a flash very quickly. Trust me on this one - I still have two flashes on my desk to get repaired that were recently burnt out by a photographer.

Organisation wise you either have it fully automated and are shooting tethered/wireless to a PC and printing a monitored folder. Takes a minimum of two people, one to administer the queue and one to shoot. The other option is use something like a Mitsubishi Click System. You then need a minimum of 3 people as someone has to work as the system operator.

Seriously, if this is your first attempt at event photography then you had better have all the kit, people, work-flow, people administration etc. sorted or you will quickly be in the deep end.

My advice (having just looked at your kit list) is don't do it. This is not a question of what should I quote but more a question of should I even be thinking of doing this at all. Unless you are prepared to put in some serious money or rent kit and get some 'volunteers' and spend time training them then you are going to struggle.

The photography itself is challenging. Forget the tripod. You will have long tall couples, short thin couples, long and short couples, thin and fat couples, both fat couples, possibly some in wheelchairs, some will want to do group shots etc. You will be switching shooting height, focal length and picture orientation regularly. You need to be able to look at couple and decide in seconds which way you are going to shoot them and know your gear well enough to be making the adjustment as the decision is made.

Your lighting needs to be able to cope with all these variations. You do not have time to move lights between shots so you have to set up a generic one solution fits all. This is not ideal but is realistic. Two lights shooting into reflective umbrellas with one 35 to 45 degrees each side of the camera is a good starting point. Test shoot and check for shadows and adjust as necessary.

Backgrounds. You need to decide whether you can use a wall as a background or whether you need to put in a background holder and sheet. You might also want to consider using something like the Lastolite Hi-Lite box.

One shot or two shots? The rule of thumb is get two shots per couple (unless printing is automated). Why two shots? On average 3 percent of all shots will have someone with their eyes closed, not looking at the camera etc. By taking 2 shots your failure rate drops to 3 percent of 3 percent. The other option is you have a large monitor connected to your system at your side and you check the image as you take it. Then do second shots as required. If you have someone at the console they can monitor for second shots and call out to you if a second is needed.

I hope this has given you an insight into what you are about to undertake. Any questions just add them to the thread and I will do my best to answer in a reasonable time.

Good luck

John

[aroundlsu]

I would not recommend using the STE2 and the Speedlites. You don't want a line of people waiting while you fight the lights. You really need some studio lights. You could pay for a whole Profoto 2 light system with the profits you could easily make on this gig. You should have $20, $40, and $60 packages. Take cash or check on the spot.

I love gigs like this. I have done quite a few. I always have at least two people helping line the people up, taking money, etc. I have another person help posing. And I just concentrate on taking the photo.

Easy. But it will be non stop picture taking if you do it right. You absolutely need to know your gear and have it all working perfect. And have a backup camera ready to go instantly. I had to go to a backup camera once.

[sparkin]

I would not do it.

I was asked to cover a karate tournament once. I declined because without an assistant (or two!) and total control over lighting, it would have been impossible to get more than a handful of good shots. I did end up going, with all my stuff, but just to get my own kids and some of their friends, but I was nagged all day long by parents to shoot their kids sparring bouts. What a nightmare. It's unfortunate that when some folks see their kids friends parents with a white lens they assume that you're willing to work a ten-plus hour day for next to nothing. They then expect you to give away the fruits of your labour for free.