550ex and 430ex2

[snakekid]

So i have a 430ex2 and i was wondering if i bought a 550ex would i be able to use wireless ettl?

And what is the possbility of keeping HSS.

Any experience or thoughts will be very helpful and much appreicated.



EDIT: I just bought a 580ex for $210 on craigslist i am uber happy.

[District_History_Fan]

So i have a 430ex2 and i was wondering if i bought a 550ex would i be able to use wireless ettl?

And what is the possbility of keeping HSS.

Any experience or thoughts will be very helpful and much appreicated.

Yes to both questions.

[booja]

yuppers...

thats what i got

[agv8or]

The 550ex is a great master flash and will control your 430exII in HSS, ETTLII (that is a camera thing and not a flash thing anyway) etc.etc.etc... Until Canon gets their ducks in a row and fixes their wireless screw up so that the slaves (that are capable of 1/3 stops the 580ex, 580exII and 430exII) will fire in 1/3 stop increments while in the wireless configuration and manual mode the 550EX, as a master flash, will continue to be able to control all features currently available in the EX wireless system. If Canon fixes their screwup then the 550EX with its manual mode full stop adjustments will still function as a master but with that limitation. I thought Canon would have fixed that oversight with the introduction of the 580exII (they lied to me and said they had) but they didn't so I am not holding my breath for version III or a firmware update of any kind either.

[PacAce]

The 550ex is a great master flash and will control your 430exII in HSS, ETTLII (that is a camera thing and not a flash thing anyway) etc.etc.etc... Until Canon gets their ducks in a row and fixes their wireless screw up so that the slaves (that are capable of 1/3 stops the 580ex, 580exII and 430exII) will fire in 1/3 stop increments while in the wireless configuration and manual mode the 550EX, as a master flash, will continue to be able to control all features currently available in the EX wireless system. If Canon fixes their screwup then the 550EX with its manual mode full stop adjustments will still function as a master but with that limitation. I thought Canon would have fixed that oversight with the introduction of the 580exII (they lied to me and said they had) but they didn't so I am not holding my breath for version III or a firmware update of any kind either.
I read your post a couple of times but I still do not understand what screw-up you are talking about. Care to elaborate? :confused:

[apersson850]

I don't get it either. Are you saying that when used in wireless modes, slaves like the 580 EX II can't any longer use their otherways existent ability to set their manual power in 1/3 increments?

[GerBee]

Well, that's a revelation which might explain some of the problems that I experience but never gave too much thought to.

All Canon flash guns operate differently and differently again in IR remote depending on what's the master.

However, for this thread, the 550EX as master should be just fine with the 430EX as slave

[snakekid]

Right now im trying to decide if i should go for 550ex on amazon a 580ex from craigslist or a sigma 530 super.

All these i can get for around $230.

I know everyone is going to say 580 is a steal for 230 and i might just pick it up tomorrow, but it seems fishy to me.

I have done alot of research into the sigma 530 super and it seems like it works near flawlessly with the canon system.

[snakekid]

The 550ex is a great master flash and will control your 430exII in HSS, ETTLII (that is a camera thing and not a flash thing anyway) etc.etc.etc... Until Canon gets their ducks in a row and fixes their wireless screw up so that the slaves (that are capable of 1/3 stops the 580ex, 580exII and 430exII) will fire in 1/3 stop increments while in the wireless configuration and manual mode the 550EX, as a master flash, will continue to be able to control all features currently available in the EX wireless system. If Canon fixes their screwup then the 550EX with its manual mode full stop adjustments will still function as a master but with that limitation. I thought Canon would have fixed that oversight with the introduction of the 580exII (they lied to me and said they had) but they didn't so I am not holding my breath for version III or a firmware update of any kind either.
I think he's saying that the 550ex 580ex 580ex2 on top of the camera is working in 1/2 incrimiants and the slaves are capable of 1/3s.

[agv8or]

Sorry guys for just getting back to this thread and for the confusion in my previous post but here is the deal.


The 580EX is capable of manual flash operation adjustable in 1/3 stop increments such 1/1 -0.3, 1/4 -0.7 (means the same as 1/8 +0.3) etc...... This was one of the great things about the 580EX when it was introduced since the 550EX was only capable of full stop increments in the manual mode 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 etc.....

Both the 550EX and 580EX's can be used as either a master or a slave when in the wireless configuration. When a 550EX or a 580EX act as a master they can be set to control the slaves in either E-TTL or Manual modes. When a 550EX or a 580EX are acting as a master and set to manual mode you can program each slave group to fire at a specific manual power setting and all slave flashes in that group will (or should) fire at that manual flash output. You'd think!

You could also conclude that since the 580EX's, which are capable of 1/3 stop adjustments when set to the manual mode in the normal configuration, would also be capable of 1/3 stop adjustments in the wireless configurations manual mode as well. The master flash should be able to tell Group A to fire at 1/2 +0.3 and you would assume that when the slave fired it would fire at 1/2 +0.3. NO DICE!!! THIS IS CANONS SCREWUP AND OVERSIGHT that I was talking about in my previous post! When using 580EX's as both a master and as slaves, in the wireless configuration in the manual mode, you lose the 1/3 stop incremental adjustments as the slaves will only fire in full stop increments even though you can dial 1/3 stop incremental adjustments, for each slave Group, into the master.

So, if I set my 580EX, acting as master, to fire slave Group A at 1/2 +0.3 and slave Group B to fire at 1/4 -0.7 and slave Group C to fire at 1/64 +0.7 then you would assume that my 580EX's, set as slaves, would then fire at these 1/3 stop increments as commanded by the master. You would be wrong! Slave Group A will fire at 1/1, slave Group B will fire at 1/4 and slave Group C will fire at 1/32 which are the next highest full stop increments.

Both the 580EX and the 580EXII have this fault. I brought this to Canon's attention after the introduction of the 580EX but, after many phone calls and with no legitamate explainations or any hopes of it being taken to a higher authority within Canon, I gave up and waited for verson II. When Version II came out I once again contacted Canon and told them of this flaw in the original 580EX and asked them if this had been fixed in the new version. I was assured that it had been corrected so I bought a couple more 580EXII's only to discover once again NO DICE!!!

After trying long and hard to get someone at Canon to listen to me I gave up and last Spring contacted Chuck Westfall who was unaware of this problem himself. He conducted his own tests and concluded with my findings that both the 580EX and 580EXII would not fire in 1/3 stop increments in the wireless configuration and manual mode. He said he was going to talk to Canons Engineers or Techs about this problem and how it could be fixed but I have yet to hear back from him either. So now I wait for version III!


That is why the 550EX, as it stands right now, is fully functional as a master flash even though it is only capable of full stop incremental adjustments in the manual mode. As of right now the Canon wireless sytem is not capable of 1/3 stop incremental adjustments in the manual mode when in the wireless configuration unless you want to override each slave individually and enter a 1/3 stop manual flash setting at that slave. That kind of defeats the purpose of a wireless system with everything being controlled from a master. At least in my book!

I hope this clears up the confusion from my previous post.

PS: I would be very interested to know if the 7D is able to get either the 580EXII or the 430EXII to fire in 1/3 stop increments in the wireless manual mode when it is acting as the master.

[PacAce]

Sorry guys for just getting back to this thread and for the confusion in my previous post but here is the deal.


The 580EX is capable of manual flash operation adjustable in 1/3 stop increments such 1/1 -0.3, 1/4 -0.7 (means the same as 1/8 +0.3) etc...... This was one of the great things about the 580EX when it was introduced since the 550EX was only capable of full stop increments in the manual mode 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 etc.....

Both the 550EX and 580EX's can be used as either a master or a slave when in the wireless configuration. When a 550EX or a 580EX act as a master they can be set to control the slaves in either E-TTL or Manual modes. When a 550EX or a 580EX are acting as a master and set to manual mode you can program each slave group to fire at a specific manual power setting and all slave flashes in that group will (or should) fire at that manual flash output. You'd think!

You could also conclude that since the 580EX's, which are capable of 1/3 stop adjustments when set to the manual mode in the normal configuration, would also be capable of 1/3 stop adjustments in the wireless configurations manual mode as well. The master flash should be able to tell Group A to fire at 1/2 +0.3 and you would assume that when the slave fired it would fire at 1/2 +0.3. NO DICE!!! THIS IS CANONS SCREWUP AND OVERSIGHT that I was talking about in my previous post! When using 580EX's as both a master and as slaves, in the wireless configuration in the manual mode, you lose the 1/3 stop incremental adjustments as the slaves will only fire in full stop increments even though you can dial 1/3 stop incremental adjustments, for each slave Group, into the master.

So, if I set my 580EX, acting as master, to fire slave Group A at 1/2 +0.3 and slave Group B to fire at 1/4 -0.7 and slave Group C to fire at 1/64 +0.7 then you would assume that my 580EX's, set as slaves, would then fire at these 1/3 stop increments as commanded by the master. You would be wrong! Slave Group A will fire at 1/1, slave Group B will fire at 1/4 and slave Group C will fire at 1/32 which are the next highest full stop increments.

Both the 580EX and the 580EXII have this fault. I brought this to Canon's attention after the introduction of the 580EX but, after many phone calls and with no legitamate explainations or any hopes of it being taken to a higher authority within Canon, I gave up and waited for verson II. When Version II came out I once again contacted Canon and told them of this flaw in the original 580EX and asked them if this had been fixed in the new version. I was assured that it had been corrected so I bought a couple more 580EXII's only to discover once again NO DICE!!!

After trying long and hard to get someone at Canon to listen to me I gave up and last Spring contacted Chuck Westfall who was unaware of this problem himself. He conducted his own tests and concluded with my findings that both the 580EX and 580EXII would not fire in 1/3 stop increments in the wireless configuration and manual mode. He said he was going to talk to Canons Engineers or Techs about this problem and how it could be fixed but I have yet to hear back from him either. So now I wait for version III!


That is why the 550EX, as it stands right now, is fully functional as a master flash even though it is only capable of full stop incremental adjustments in the manual mode. As of right now the Canon wireless sytem is not capable of 1/3 stop incremental adjustments in the manual mode when in the wireless configuration unless you want to override each slave individually and enter a 1/3 stop manual flash setting at that slave. That kind of defeats the purpose of a wireless system with everything being controlled from a master. At least in my book!

I hope this clears up the confusion from my previous post.

PS: I would be very interested to know if the 7D is able to get either the 580EXII or the 430EXII to fire in 1/3 stop increments in the wireless manual mode when it is acting as the master.
I did a couple of tests this evening to see if I could replicate your observations and this is what I found. Although I do agree that the power level that's displayed on the LCD of the slave when the setting is entered manually on the master is in full stop increments, the actual output from the slave matches what was actually entered on the master in 1/3 stop increments. This was easily verified by changing the power level on the master for the slave in 1/3 increments and checking the histogram of the resulting image. And to rule out inconsistencies of ETTL as being the cause of the change, I shot at each power level twice (the histograms of the pictures shot at the same levels were consistent).

And a more interesting observation was that when the 580EX II was used as the master, even the 550EX which, by itself can only be adjusted in full stop increments, was also outputting light intensities in 1/3 increments to match whatever was set via the master.

[agv8or]

Interesting observations Leo I will have to do some more checking. Years ago when I first dicovered this I checked each flash setting with a flash meter and saw no change other than for each full stop setting as was displayed on the LCD. My metering technique may have been flawed or at the time I may have been so PO'd, after having spent lots of money to upgrade from 550's,that I may have acted a bit hastily on my assumption because of the LCD readout. I know that when I got my 580EXII's I just did the quick check of the LCD's and didn't even bother with a meter. Oh well, I may have to eat crow on this one but it wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last.

[agv8or]

Well it looks like I have a big ole heap of crow to eat. Thanks to PacAce for showing me the error of my ways by looking beyond the obvious and searching for the answer amidst the confusion. It seems that Canon slaves will fire in 1/3 stop increments, when controlled by either a 580EX or 580EXII as master, in the wireless configuration manual mode even though they don't display the 1/3 stop increments on LCD screen. Maybe Canon will allow for these 1/3 stops to be displayed on the slaves with 580EXIII or maybe just not show flash output on the slaves like the 430EX's.


I appologize for any confusions I may have created in my statement above and I also retract any thing negative I have said about the the Canon Flash system and it's assumed inability to adjust slave flash outputs in 1/3 stops while in the wireless config and in the manual mode. I was wrong all these years and I appologize to Canon for that even though some of their customer service reps agreed with me and not a one of them offered any viable explainations or objections to the contrary.

Not only did PacAce show me the error of my ways but he also discovered in the process that the 550EX as a slave, which is only capable of full stop increments in the manual mode normal config, will also fire at these 1/3 stop increments when commanded to by a 580EX master. I duplicated his findings and also tested an original 430EX and it too fired in 1/3 stops. This is really cool! I have been using my 550EX as a master all these years because of what I believed as mentioned above, when I should have been using the 580EX and the 550EX as a slave. Who would have thunk such a thing!!