HS Volleyball

[Big K]

The state tourney starts next week so thought I would go cover some volleyball in preparation. Too bad the gym I will be in is not as nice as this one but what can you do.

All shot with Mk III 135 f/2 at ISO 2000 1/800 f/2. Noise Ninja using the Canon ISO 2000 profile with no sharpening then through Photoshop for some USM.

1.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4081.jpg

2.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4086.jpg

3.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4093.jpg

4.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4144.jpg

5.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4240.jpg

6.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4331.jpg

7.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4342.jpg

8.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4367.jpg

[Dinomite]

Fantastic photos!

[paigewich]

These are really good. Very clear and sharp.

[clarence]

Nice!

#3 is my favorite.

Incredible job shooting through the net in 5, 6, 8. Did you use MF to avoid AF locking onto the net?

[bbmm7th]

Hi K -
first of all - really nice shots.
now, a question: I've shot several VB matches, most recently last weekend, and at F/2,
I'm finding (obviously) that the depth of field is very narrow. SO narrow - that it seems like I can ONLY "plan" on shots in one very particular location at a time, because the time it takes to refocus is too long if you try to follow any action around the court.

Q: is that what you do? Do you pick a spot, so to say, and shoot only there? then, switch focus to a different depth, and shoot there? For example, shot #1 is a mid-court shot - 3 feet in either direction and that's out of focus.

[jrsulli369]

Wow amazing shots they are all really crisp. #6 and #8 are great

[Sibil]

I haven't shot volleyball but from everything I've read, it's one difficult sport to shoot. Your captures are awesome. Great work. Do you mind sharing the gear and technique used?

[Big K]

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.

Nice!

#3 is my favorite.

Incredible job shooting through the net in 5, 6, 8. Did you use MF to avoid AF locking onto the net?

No, I shoot with AF. I try to position myself so I can focus on them below the net before they jump then tilt the lens up following their jump. All the images except #3 are uncropped so you can get a sense of where I was positioned.

It is a hit and miss method. Many shots end up in the trash because the net catches the focus. Usually I am only able to get 1 or 2 frames off before the net grabs the AF so the key is not tilting too soon. I do have more success in gyms where the net is black like this one.

Hi K -
first of all - really nice shots.
now, a question: I've shot several VB matches, most recently last weekend, and at F/2,
I'm finding (obviously) that the depth of field is very narrow. SO narrow - that it seems like I can ONLY "plan" on shots in one very particular location at a time, because the time it takes to refocus is too long if you try to follow any action around the court.

Q: is that what you do? Do you pick a spot, so to say, and shoot only there? then, switch focus to a different depth, and shoot there? For example, shot #1 is a mid-court shot - 3 feet in either direction and that's out of focus.

Yeah, it is very hard to chase action in volleyball. I have watched so much volleyball over the years that I have a pretty good understanding of the game which is a huge help. I pay attention to which players are in which positions and try to anticipate the general location the play will happen and set up in that basic location then as the play develops adjust as necessary.

The Mk III and 135 are incredibly fast focusing so it is possible to change from targeting the back row to the front row in mid-play and still have a chance to get a shot. The bigger problem for me is that I like to shoot tight so I miss more shots because my framing is wrong than because the AF does not adjust.

I do also fire a lot of frames chasing a play, many of them not even looking through the viewfinder. The keeper rate is very low but occasionally will end up with a really killer shot.

Volleyball, especially at f/2 is definitely an exercise in deleting bad images. My keeper rate most matches is 1 in 6 or 7 but I am also a sharpness freak so delete a lot of shots that are decent. I also shoot a lot of volleyball throughout the season so find there is no need to keep anything but the best shots because there are only so many ways you can capture a bump, set or spike before they all start to look the same.

I haven't shot volleyball but from everything I've read, it's one difficult sport to shoot. Your captures are awesome. Great work. Do you mind sharing the gear and technique used?

95% of the volleyball I cover is with a Mk III and 135 f/2 lens. That combo is awesome for indoor sports. Great ISO performance from the body and that lens is as sharp as it comes for Canon.

I have watched a lot of volleyball over the years so have a pretty good understanding of the game which helps tremendously with being able to anticipate where the play will happen or how it will develop.

I target three main parts of the court depending on which players are on the floor and their current positions: Back row, center front row passer and generally the front left side of the net.

The better teams will tend to serve the ball to the player in the back row they feel is the weakest returner so if I see a girl mess up a couple of returns, it is a good bet they are going to serve at her whenever possible and will set up on her. Teams that aren't as strong tend to serve to the middle of the back row all the time.

Most teams attempt to return the serve to the girl in the middle of the front row so she makes an easy position to target as well. If she is a strong passer, it is much harder to anticipate if she will pass the ball forward or backward so I then pay attention to where the stronger hitter is positioned since she will generally try and pass to her. If she is not a strong passer, virtually all her passes will go forward.

At the high school level, most teams will try and spike from the left side of the net so this is another place to target. The better teams will attack from anywhere so again, knowing the game is a big help.

If I am covering a team for the first time I will skip getting a hot dog between the JV and varsity match so I can watch them warm up. You can quickly figure out who the dominate passer is as well as how many and how strong their hitters are as well as if they tend to go to certain spots for most of their plays.

Volleyball is interesting to try and cover. Bad teams are the hardest to cover because, like them, you have no idea where the ball is going to go so it hard to anticipate anything. Average teams are the easiest because they tend to do the same thing every play. Good teams are harder because they can make plays from anywhere and misdirection is one of their offensive strategies.

Hope all that helps and more importantly, makes sense. I am just waking up. :-)

[Sibil]

^^^^
Thanks for the great explanation. I have learned a lot from your posts.
Cheers :D

[Harleypugs]

These are some of the best VB that I have seen posted anywhere....

Very nice work.

[snyderman]

Kevin:

Your shots are simply outstanding. I'm sure the girls and their parents really appreciate your fantastic work. Also, looks like you've settled on the best gear combination which is really helping you. Lots of good explanation in how you do so well.

I especially liked the shot with the girl winding up for the kill shot. The people in the BG all have great look of anticipation on their faces. Really made that shot!

Again, outstanding work and processing.

dave

[namasste]

Amazing stuff Kevin and I don't mean that in a pat on the back, "good shots" kinda way. I am truly impressed with these. Help me out with your positioning to shoot. I simply couldn't figure out which side to line up on or where to effectively position myself. Seemed like no matter where I tried to setup, something was just off (the ref stand, the bottom of the net, you name it).

[Big K]

Dave and Jon - Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

Amazing stuff Kevin and I don't mean that in a pat on the back, "good shots" kinda way. I am truly impressed with these. Help me out with your positioning to shoot. I simply couldn't figure out which side to line up on or where to effectively position myself. Seemed like no matter where I tried to setup, something was just off (the ref stand, the bottom of the net, you name it).

Thanks Scott. I am heading out the door for another project and will post a more detailed response on shooting positions and such when I return.

[eric gautier]

can you throw up a shot w/o NN applied? i'm curious to see the skin tones on those..

[canonnoob]

Kevin. There is some amazing stuff here.. the one thing I dont like though is just how much NR is done.. but that is just my personal taste.. But your timing and effectiveness is perfect in getting these shots done...

[Sibil]

Kevin;
When you get back, could you also mention how you did the White Balance?

[aram535]

I'm just impressed with the dead-on focus through the net. I can't do manual focus and keep up shooting volleyball.

[Big K]

can you throw up a shot w/o NN applied? i'm curious to see the skin tones on those..

See the sample below. Left is straight out of the camera, middle is with USM only, right is as originally posted with USM and NN. All saved at 1024 pixels on the long dimension, 72dpi, jpeg quality 10. If you want to see a different image without the NN just let me know and I will post it as well.

http://www.ks-images.com/POTN/009/7A9G4367 (combo).jpg

Kevin. There is some amazing stuff here.. the one thing I dont like though is just how much NR is done.. but that is just my personal taste.. But your timing and effectiveness is perfect in getting these shots done...

Thanks Dave. I agree, they are a bit plastic looking in some of them. I ran them in batch and did not do any tinkering with the noise reduction settings and just used what is the default for the Canon profile. The only thing I have done is edit the standard profile to not do any sharpening since I think PS does a better job and do it there.

Kevin;
When you get back, could you also mention how you did the White Balance?

I use an X-rite grey card and then set a custom WB when I am setting it at an event. I have shot in this gym so many times over the years, I now just shoot the match in AWB in RAW and batch adjust the WB in Aperture to the color temp I know is needed for this gym to save having to dig out the card each match. That would cut into my hot dog eating time. :-)

I'm just impressed with the dead-on focus through the net. I can't do manual focus and keep up shooting volleyball.

Thanks. Just to clarify, I do shoot in AF mode. My eyes are not good enough to MF at f/2 with a digital viewfinder. When I was younger and was still shooting film maybe but not now.

Scott, I'm working on that location write up now and will probably post it in the talk section but will put a link to it here when I am done.

[josies_boy]

I'm new to the sports shooting and since my old camera was a 300d I didn't have much for burst capabilities. Now w/ the 40d I do.

So when I look at these images how often are you using a burst mode vs. a single shot mode?

[eric gautier]

See the sample below. Left is straight out of the camera, middle is with USM only, right is as originally posted with USM and NN. All saved at 1024 pixels on the long dimension, 72dpi, jpeg quality 10. If you want to see a different image without the NN just let me know and I will post it as well.



Thanks!

[namasste]

Thanks Kev.

[Sibil]

No, I shoot with AF. I try to position myself so I can focus on them below the net before they jump then tilt the lens up following their jump.

Kevin;
One more question if you don't mind. Have you used Custom Function 20 (if it is the same on 1DIII as in 1DII) to slow down the AI Servo AF sensitivity?

[scot079]

These are some of the best VB that I have seen posted anywhere....

Very nice work.

I'm just impressed with the dead-on focus through the net.

100% agree, these are the best I've seen.

Bad teams are the hardest to cover because, like them, you have no idea where the ball is going to go so it hard to anticipate anything.

Volleyball, especially at f/2 is definitely an exercise in deleting bad images.

That would cut into my hot dog eating time.

quoted for truth HAHA :-)

[Big K]

Scott, or anyone else who is interested, here is a link to a thread I added in the sports talk section that goes into more detail about positioning. Hope it is helpful and more importantly, makes sense.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8836063#post8836063

I'm new to the sports shooting and since my old camera was a 300d I didn't have much for burst capabilities. Now w/ the 40d I do.

So when I look at these images how often are you using a burst mode vs. a single shot mode?

I shoot bursts virtually every time I fire when covering VB. Most of the time it is 2-3 shots. I try to fire based on the reaction of the players eyes and face and generally after three frames the play is over so stop.

Glad you mentioned that. Scott, I was going to note that is probably one thing that will take you the most adjusting with VB vs. your more controlled style for field sports. Volume in ambient, ultra wide aperture VB can really help and is the one sport I shoot bursts more than any other.

Kevin;
One more question if you don't mind. Have you used Custom Function 20 (if it is the same on 1DIII as in 1DII) to slow down the AI Servo AF sensitivity?

I have not tried it. I like the rapid change of focus as it allows me to react to a play and the camera adjusts very quickly. Since I tend to set up in a general area then adjust as the play happens, which is generally very quickly, I want the AF to respond as fast as possible to any change I make. Just my personal preference.

[Dan-o]

Damn nice Kev!

[Big K]

Damn nice Kev!

Thanks Danny. Tonight the real challenge begins. It is finally to the point of the year that I have no choice but to shoot football with a flash. Hope I can get to even 50% the level of the stuff you have been producing lately, assuming I don't spend the whole game looking for hot fans begging me to take their photos. :-)

[canonnoob]

Thanks Danny. Tonight the real challenge begins. It is finally to the point of the year that I have no choice but to shoot football with a flash. Hope I can get to even 50% the level of the stuff you have been producing lately, assuming I don't spend the whole game looking for hot fans begging me to take their photos. :-)

same here... I am also shooting where there is a fat crown in the field.. lol

[Dan-o]

assuming I don't spend the whole game looking for hot fans begging me to take their photos.

I have a good eye for those sort of things. :lol: Some how I think you will do fine. I was going to shoot VB last Tues. but something came up. I will try this next week but as other first timers I don't know the game that well.

[aram535]

I just noticed, why are both teams wearing the same colors?!?

[HighPixel]

These are some of the best VB that I have seen posted anywhere....

Very nice work.
This was my exact thoughts! Great images in an element not so great!

[Big K]

I just noticed, why are both teams wearing the same colors?!?

That happens occasionally around here with volleyball. Both schools have navy blue as one of their colors so their unis have that as a base color. VB alot of times does not have the funding of football or basketball and the teams don't always have home and away unis.

Since they are separated by a net, different colors aren't really needed to differentiate the players on the floor.

[canonnoob]

That happens occasionally around here with volleyball. Both schools have navy blue as one of their colors so their unis have that as a base color. VB alot of times does not have the funding of football or basketball and the teams don't always have home and away unis.

Since they are separated by a net, different colors aren't really needed to differentiate the players on the floor.


yep... its the same way around here... the game the other night that I shot had both teams with the same uniforms..

[Croasdail]

Great shots..... just be careful with the sharpening. You are starting to get some artifacts and sharpening highlights.... dial that back just a ting, and you are gold.

[disneydork06]

nice shots! love 3. only a couple shots of 20 to post this time? j/k. anyways, nice work on all this. wish I had a 135L to play with for my vball shots. I could use the extra stop in the dark gyms I have to work in.

[Big K]

Great shots..... just be careful with the sharpening. You are starting to get some artifacts and sharpening highlights.... dial that back just a ting, and you are gold.

Thanks for the input and great attention to detail. I went back and looked at my settings and realized I inadvertently used a different USM routine than I normally use for my sports stuff. The one used is a bit stronger than normal. Thanks for pointing it out. I have redid the final use files accordingly.

nice shots! love 3. only a couple shots of 20 to post this time? j/k. anyways, nice work on all this. wish I had a 135L to play with for my vball shots. I could use the extra stop in the dark gyms I have to work in.

Hahaha. Good memory. :-) Yeah, I still ended up with several of her but was targeting some of the other girls more for the night so did not end up with a personal gallery of her this time.

[dave007007]

very nice photos, very clear....good work