Doningtons collapse?

[Lowner]

Judging by the latest news, Donington Park here in the UK is busy self-destructing.

F1 supremo Ecclestone seems to be suggesting that if the event organisers cannot find the cash required very quickly, he will sue them for breach of contract. Anyone dealing with Bernie needs to be very astute or be very rich and the Donington people don't strike me as either!

It's a shame. Donington Park has a hundred times the character of Silverstone and deserves to be better served. And Silverstones ruling elite are only interested in themselves, certainly not the paying public.

[Cadwell]

Good grief. No-one in motorsport is interested in "the paying public", least of all anyone involved in Formula 1.

If by "character" you mean that Donington was "even more of a run down, neglected dump" than Silverstone was, then I agree with you; good circuit it was not and it was particularly poor for car racing.

[GSH]

Judging by the latest news, Donington Park here in the UK is busy self-destructing.

F1 supremo Ecclestone seems to be suggesting that if the event organisers cannot find the cash required very quickly, he will sue them for breach of contract. Anyone dealing with Bernie needs to be very astute or be very rich and the Donington people don't strike me as either!

It's a shame. Donington Park has a hundred times the character of Silverstone and deserves to be better served. And Silverstones ruling elite are only interested in themselves, certainly not the paying public.

I hate to defend Bernie, but the boy Gillett at Donington (incidentally he's the leaseholder and NOT the Circuit owner) has had every opportunity to deliver the goods. The latest 2 week "deadline" is simply a contractual requirement which must be fulfilled prior to legal action commencing.

I said from day 1, as did many others that this was never going to happen. Not only was obtaining the funding in the current financial climate a pipe-dream, but the timescale for Constructing the new facilities was impossible.

My original prediction was that Donington would fail and Silverstone would not have the time to organise a GP thus giving the Gnome the perfect excuse to sell another GP to some Godforsaken Desert Hell-hole.

I have yet to see anything that will convince me otherwise.

[chris954]

I said from day 1, as did many others that this was never going to happen. Not only was obtaining the funding in the current financial climate a pipe-dream, but the timescale for Constructing the new facilities was impossible.



i was ther for a track day in august and the whole of the infield around macleans/coppice corner and down to foggy esses was just a great big hole.no sign of any building going on at all

[Lowner]

Maybe the Mafia intend to bury the FIA there en masse if Flavio does not win his appeal?

[Mike-DT6]

If by "character" you mean that Donington was "even more of a run down, neglected dump" than Silverstone was, then I agree with you; good circuit it was not and it was particularly poor for car racing.

This is reminiscent of your Pembrey Circuit appraisal that I received a while ago! :lol:

Mike

[andrewc]

I've spent 3 weekends there this summer.

Leave the track alone - this part is what draws the drivers and riders, especially the Craner Curves.

The facilities are somewhat poorer, they were 'state of the art back in the mid 1970's and half the pits have been fairly recently upgraded. Half the paddock is fairly smooth tarmac, but the other half is reminiscent of downtown Gaza or Beirut.

The Cafe was pretty dire. Any cafe that can't make a decent mug of tea, or serve up a decent all-day-breakfast should be closed down. Surprised they didn't accept credit cards either.

For photography from public side of the fence there are some opportunities, but much is fenced in with tall fencing. This was only going to get worse with the upgrade to F1 status.

They've lost MotoGP to Silverstone. Looks possible Silverstone may keep the GP for now. Who else have they lost?

The good thing about Donington, is that their noise curfew is late. Being slap band next to an international airport has some advantages!

[jamesb84]

This is reminiscent of your Pembrey Circuit appraisal that I received a while ago! :lol:

Mike

Ah but Pembrey has its charms, everyone's a lot more friendly down there! One of my favourite circuits actually!

[Lowner]

Andrew,

That Cafe. Any chance you are talking about the very elaborate place that looks as though it was the estate lodge originally (close to Redgate)? The one right next to an area that looks for all the world as though a third world war has started?
I like the track, for an amateur 'tog without trackside access it beats Silverstone any day, but boy does it need money spent on it big time.

[Cadwell]

Ah but Pembrey has its charms, everyone's a lot more friendly down there! One of my favourite circuits actually!

I was chatting to one of the country's leading motorsport photographers at Mallory on Sunday, a living legend of the art in fact, I'll leave him nameless to protect the guilty. We were talking about circuits and the ones he did / didn't like. He mentioned a few before I ventured "What about Pembrey?"

He blinked, looked stunned and then said "Pembrey is so awful I've blotted it out of my conciousness".

[andrewc]

Andrew,

That Cafe. Any chance you are talking about the very elaborate place that looks as though it was the estate lodge originally (close to Redgate)? The one right next to an area that looks for all the world as though a third world war has started?
I like the track, for an amateur 'tog without trackside access it beats Silverstone any day, but boy does it need money spent on it big time.

No, the one built into the complex/spectator boxes on the Melbourne Loop.

[jamesb84]

I was chatting to one of the country's leading motorsport photographers at Mallory on Sunday, a living legend of the art in fact, I'll leave him nameless to protect the guilty. We were talking about circuits and the ones he did / didn't like. He mentioned a few before I ventured "What about Pembrey?"

He blinked, looked stunned and then said "Pembrey is so awful I've blotted it out of my conciousness".

Hahaha...yeah, it's not the best for locations, shots or track layout...but friendliness can't be beaten!

Out of interest, where was his favourite?!

[Lowner]

He blinked, looked stunned and then said "Pembrey is so awful I've blotted it out of my conciousness".

We need to differentiate between pro's with trackside access and us proles with no such luxury.

[Roger-Walker]

As someone outside the fence, I much prefer Donnington to Silverstone. I've only been there for a few car events, but I've been there for countless bike meetings.
it has quite a few locations where you can see a fair amount of the circuit, which if you're trying to keep track of what battles are where is great. There aren't that many places where the catch fence doesn't get in the way, but I think it's better than Silverstone.
In terms of facilities, compared to the modern F1 tracks it's terrible, but then that's why Bernie was pushing for an upgrade.
Let's hope Silverstone haggle a good last minute deal (for them) and some of the money Donnington will forfeit helps to subsides a UK F1 rather than one somewhere else.

[Lowner]

I'd also want Silverstone to move ALL the grandstands right up to the edge of the track, even over it in a few places and remove at least one stupidly placed marshalls station and a line of fence. Then for the year after, lets get the earth movers in and create a track with at least a little character. Flat is boring!

I listened to Jackie Stuart mouthing off on the TV yesterday about how Silverstone cannot afford.......... blahh blahh. So tell me Jackie, whose pocket did the profits from all those years of Silverstone British GP's go into? It's a "Private Members Club", guess where. Start spending it!

[Cadwell]

What profits from the British GP? :rolleyes: If the British GP is so damned profitable why were Interpublic so desperate to get out of their GP contract that they were happy to pay £51 million back in 2004 to get out of their obligations to have to stage the race? If staging the British GP made loads of lovely lolly for the circuits, the Donington crowd would have no trouble raising the finance, even in the current climate.

The problem is that staging the British GP doesn't actually make much money for the circuit and that's why it has all gone horribly wrong. Donington would have made so little on the deal that they would have had trouble servicing the interest on their loans let alone repaying any of the capital. That's why it was cloud cuckoo land from the beginning.

[Mike-DT6]

How does the situation here differ from all the other F1 Grand Prix venues that are successful? Is it simply the case that not enough people are prepared to pay to watch the racing?

Some of the other GPs are held in countries where I would expect the price of an entry ticket to be well out of reach for the average person, but I haven't heard of problems with the other venues.

It does seem absolutely typical that our GP is falling to bits whilst everyone else seems to have a nice shiny one!

Mike

[andrewc]

Many countries get a Government hand out to stage the grand prix. British GP is self-financing.

[Mike-DT6]

That explains that one then!

[Cadwell]

That's pretty much the long and the short of it. The money in F1 comes firstly from the world wide TV revenue, then from advertising and then from corporate hospitality at the event. The gate receipts come a distant fourth.

The gate reciepts are the only bit the circuit sees. Out of that they need to pay Bernie a substantial amount of money for the privilege of hosting the event plus they need to pay for the costs of running the event itself. That doesn't leave a whole lot in the way of profit for the circuit.

[GSH]

And let's not forget that Bernie's GP contracts include an annual escalator. From memory the British GP deal kicked off at £12million in year 1 and rose by 7% p/a. That would become just short of £17million in year 5 and almost £24 million in year 10....

Silverstone made a profit of £660,000 on around £36 million turnover last year...not quite the pot of gold some seem to believe...

[Ferrari_Alex]

I think that it is the problem of Donington, not FOM. I do not think that Donington deserve a better treatment than any other track. It is pure business.

[GSH]

I think that it is the problem of Donington, not FOM. I do not think that Donington deserve a better treatment than any other track. It is pure business.

Donington have already had better treatment. The numerous deadline extensions and Bernie's offer to let them skip 2010 if they weren't ready proves that.

[Cadwell]

Indeed, Donington should not get special treatment. However, the problem still remains.

The model of granting the franchise to host an F1 event does not work unless the venue can secure government (or other) funding. Unless that happens, there's not enough "meat" on the F1 bone to allow the circuit to fund development on its own. That's where Silverstone has had trouble over the years and that's where Donington has run into trouble now.

There only appear to be a limited number of options.

1. Secure government funding to allow Donington or Silverstone to upgrade. Now, in reality, there's no such thing as "government funding". That translates to taxpayers funding Formula 1 and that's something I'd object to strongly; I don't want my money going to fund a "sporting" event I find objectionable. I suspect the majority of the British taxpayers would feel the same way.

2. Allow the British GP to happen at good old, run-down Silverstone. A temporary measure at best.

3. No more British GP and it goes somewhere else in the world, somewhere that is willing to pay Bernie handsomely for the privilege of hosting it.

Personally my vote (if anyone would care to ask) would be for option 3. Ta-ra and good riddance to Formula Numb.

[andrewc]

And word should be said for the passing of Tom Wheatcroft. He rescued Donington Park and unfortunately has had to watch Gillett cock it all up.

[GSH]

And word should be said for the passing of Tom Wheatcroft. He rescued Donington Park and unfortunately has had to watch Gillett cock it all up.

Very sad, but he's been ill for a long time. No doubt recent events haven't helped.

He made a mistake getting involved with Gillett & Co but i dare say it was done with the best interests of his family & Donington in mind.

[Cadwell]

And word should be said for the passing of Tom Wheatcroft. He rescued Donington Park and unfortunately has had to watch Gillett cock it all up.

That is very sad news indeed. Tom Wheatcroft was above all a motorsport enthusiast in the greatest traditions of the sport. He'll be badly missed.

[F1denver]

I've been lucky enough to have seen many F1 races, but to be honest Silverstone is run down and tickets are over priced compared to other European circuits ( except Monaco ), to be fair to Bernie he's warned SIlverstone for years to bring this circuit upto date but they ( BRDC ) seem to think its their god given right to hold this race over any other circuit in the UK. Mr.Gillet from day one must have known that to raise £150m in this current climate was a no brainer ! and I a big F1 fan wouldn't stand for " Goverment funding" ie the taxpayer that's me and you good old muggings .When you go to other circuits you realise just how far we " the home of motorsport " is lagging behind. This must be a embarrassing for Bernie especially when you see circuits that have been built where there was nothing but wasteland and Silverstone and Donington both have a circuit, grandstands and most of all a massive amount of racing fans not just F1 but every kind of motor racing and all they've been asked is to bring them upto date not knock them down and start again ! Stand your ground Bernie I say we might miss out on our home GP, but when Silverstone and Co. Get their arses in gear and do what needs doing then in the long run the fans should be better off!
I know I know its a photog forum not an F1 forum I'm sorry……just had to get it off my chest.

[gingerpaul]

There are circuits not under threat with far worse facilities than what we have in the UK, Donington or not. Interlagos anyone?

In my opinion it's just been Bernie posturing to get his way. I originally thought he was trying to devalue Silverstone so he could buy it from the BRDC but I'm not so sure now. Perhaps he's after Donington. Only time will tell.

[Lowner]

I still think Brands would have made an ideal venue for the event. Well placed for airports, road and rail connections to the rest of the world. Better than Silverstone can ever be, never mind the nightmare of F1 at Donnington.

Yes it needs work, but nothing thats impossible.

[Cadwell]

I still think Brands would have made an ideal venue for the event. Well placed for airports, road and rail connections to the rest of the world. Better than Silverstone can ever be, never mind the nightmare of F1 at Donnington.

Yes it needs work, but nothing thats impossible.


Actually it is impossible. It has been tried.

A brief history lesson. Octagon Motorsport won the rights to hold the British Grand Prix in the late 1990's by outbidding Silverstone. At the time they owned Brands Hatch, Snetterton, Cadwell Park and Oulton Park circuits. Their intention was to hold the Grand Prix at Brands Hatch. They were refused planning permission for the upgrade work to the circuit necessary to hold the GP. Appeals were made up to the level of Secretary of State and it was still denied. They were refused both on environmental grounds (mustn't cut down the trees) and because of masses of protests from local residents.

In the end Octagon had the rights to hold the Grand Prix but nowhere to hold it. They then were forced to lease Silverstone from the BRDC for a significant sum so that they had somewhere to stage the race. This went on for several years until they pulled out (paying Bernie large amounts of money in order to be allowed to break their contract) because they were losing money hand-over-fist in the process.

As for Brands Hatch's superb communications links... tell that to anyone who tries to get in or out of the place for any moderately large race meeting. A1 GP meetings have had people taking 3 hours to get into the circuit and even more to get out and that's not a patch on F1 crowds!

Now sure... if the government stumped up the money to make the A20 past Brands a dual carriageway things might be OK... but they did that for Silverstone not so long ago. Do you seriously think they'd do it again for Brands Hatch?

[Lowner]

Glenn,

Yes I am aware that "Two Jags" Prescott vetoed it. This is the polititian who thinks that fists are an acceptable political tool. He was, is and will always be a complete buffoon.

3 hours to leave Brands compares well to the 8 or 9 hours we were held queing to escape Silverstone a while back.

As to government actually spending money on anything other than wars is never going to happen.

[GSH]

Stand your ground Bernie I say we might miss out on our home GP, but when Silverstone and Co. Get their arses in gear and do what needs doing then in the long run the fans should be better off!


You've made the rather large error of assuming that BCE is referring to public areas when he whines about Silverstone's "poor" faciilities. He's actually more concerned with the prawn sandwich brigade on their corporate jollies.

Joe Public paying £££'s to sit on the luffield Terrace is of no concern to Yoda.

[fivegallon]

and this (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26455449-5018892,00.html?from=public_rss) news just in...

[GSH]

and this (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26455449-5018892,00.html?from=public_rss) news just in...

T'internet must be slow to Oz. It was "in" about 12 hours ago here :p

[Lowner]

According to my wife who read the ceefax report, Silverstone will rebuild the pits complex. Golly Gosh Batman!

The pits are no concern of mine, lets see real money being spent on facilities WE are likely to use. Damon Hill, Jackie Stewart and pals want us to feel sorry for them because they are down to their last £100 million!

[fivegallon]

T'internet must be slow to Oz. It was "in" about 12 hours ago here :p

I'm actually in southern philippines and yes it is very slow here

that aside i didnt see anyone else bother to post it up ;)