Thinking about a G series to back up my DSLR

[bearkeithley]

So I'm thinking about buying a G series camera as a "chill cam" for all those times when a digital SLR is inconvenient or inappropriate. I'm worried about a couple things though, so I figured I'd ask the community about it.

First, I hate live-view. Looking at the back of a camera rather than through the viewfinder makes you look like a jackass. Don't take it personally, maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Luckily, the G series cameras have viewfinders, but unlike SLR's, there's no focusing through the viewfinder. Will I end up with a lot of out of focus shots if I don't use live-view?

Also, will I die if I can't create shallow DOF photos? I think I might. And I don't want shallow DOF only when shooting macro stuff. I want it all the time. But I also want a compact camera, so what do I do?

I guess in general, I'm asking if an SLR fan can live without the SLR features when wanting a good compact camera. What do you think?

[Bernoulli]

I think that absolutely the G cameras are great for SLR backup; that's exactly what mine is for.

I use my G10 for vacation shooting almost exclusively when I'm out of the country or need something a little more portable. I set the ISO fairly low, usually 200. For outside shots that aren't heavily cropped, the results are almost indistinguishable from my 50D. That fact that it shoots RAW is a big advantage over other point-and-shoots.

I was in a rainforest this summer, in pouring rain, and I was glad to NOT have my SLR then.

For inside shots, the G10 won't do as well as your SLR but still good enough.

As for framing the shots, I go either way with it. The viewfinder works fine and so does the live view. Since I have reading glasses I tend to use the viewfinder mostly but, even if you use the screen, you can trust the autofocus to come through almost every time.

[CJinAustin]

Also, will I die if I can't create shallow DOF photos? I think I might. And I don't want shallow DOF only when shooting macro stuff. I want it all the time. But I also want a compact camera, so what do I do?

Well you don't buy a G-series... unfortunately the main thing you mentioned, limited DOF, the G's don't do because their sensor is too small. Look into the Panasonic GF1 http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/ which has a viewfinder add on. http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMWLVF1.html

of course now your price tag just doubled...

There are not a lot of good options for what you want... I know, I want the same.

[bearkeithley]

Well you don't buy a G-series... unfortunately the main thing you mentioned, limited DOF, the G's don't do because their sensor is too small. Look into the Panasonic GF1 http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/ which has a viewfinder add on. http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMWLVF1.html

of course now your price tag just doubled...

There are not a lot of good options for what you want... I know, I want the same.

Thanks for the info. It looks like that GF1 might be the closest thing to the compact SLR I dream of, but the added price and still absent viewfinder keep my dreams from coming true. Plus that add on viewfinder will be live-view itself... ugh (I don't like the video display of live view either, not just the look-at-the-back-of-your-camera problem).

I know the limitations of compact cameras regarding DOF, so I guess what I am also asking is this:

For the added benefit of having a compact camera that is as versatile as the G series Canons, do you think I will end up regretting buying one when I experience it's limitations compared to an SLR?

Because when it comes down to it, I'll probably only use it at social gatherings when I'm drinking too much to take care of my 1Ds, as well as for those times I'm out somewhere or traveling and I'm less concerned with the art of photography as much as capturing a photo to document the experience (while having a camera capable of making photos better than the average compact ever could)

If this is the case, do you think I could handle giving up the shallow DOF, the versatility of interchangeable lenses, and the greatness of SLRs with their focus through viewfinders?

I think I can, but I'm only 70% sure.

[mdruziak]

I'm less concerned with the art of photography as much as capturing a photo to document the experience (while having a camera capable of making photos better than the average compact ever could)

Certainly the G11 is up to that task. However, the G11 is still something you will need to "lug" around. It isn't something that you can easily stick in your pants pocket.

Maybe something like the S90?

[JazzyMac]

I actually purchased my G10 for that specific purpose. The viewfinder on the G10 sucks, but I prefer the live view versus the live view on the SLR. Both the SLR and P&S gives me a better appreciation for each other and also gives me leverage to do things I would have never tried.

There are plenty of times when I don't need my SLR (places I've already shot, quick trips, short dinners, etc.), but kick myself if I don't have a camera.

I've been able to create some nice DOF shots with a bit of practice. ;)

[CJinAustin]

I think I can, but I'm only 70% sure.

Hopefully this is helpful... here are a couple of shots with the aperture set at or very near its widest setting allowed at the given zoom. There is some isolation of the subject but whether it will be enough is up to you.

[mathogre]

Here are some shots from my G9. I'm not a pro. I have full exif info for all of them if you want, but they were all done with live-view. I still prefer my XSi, but I think the G9 is one heck of a camera. Were I in the market for a high end point-n-shoot, I'd be seriously looking at the G11.

1. Windy day. 1/1250, f/4.0, iso 80.
http://homepage.mac.com/mathogre/.Pictures/IMG_0494.png


2. Zoomed into this one from a distance. 1/320, f/4.8, iso 100.
http://homepage.mac.com/mathogre/.Pictures/IMG_0534.png


3. Built-in ND filter, shot with camera on a railing. 1/8, f/5.6, iso 80.
http://homepage.mac.com/mathogre/.Pictures/IMG_0943_sm.png


4. Shot through a fence; icy, winter day, manual focus. 1/320, f/4.5, iso 80.
http://homepage.mac.com/mathogre/.Pictures/IMG_2869_2a.png

[NaturalMystic]

I think that right now there will be a compromise. I have three levels of cameras: my take anywhere P&S Canon SD870IS for when I just want to have a camera with me "just in case".

If I need more versatility with what my camera can do, and need the option of additional flash power then it's my G11 with my 270EX "Baby" speedlight.
If I need full control, versatility, speed, reach, etc, then it's my (now rarely used D70) or my D300.

The question is do I need portability vs versatility for a given occasion and that's what usually determines which gear to take.

Until the technology is available where Canon releases the "G20" or some future version, that has a bigger sensor, 20x optical zoom, super duper IS, ISO 800 that looks like ISO 80, etc, etc (you get my point), there will be a compromise one way or the other.

I say go for the G11, I doubt you'll be dissapointed with it's capabilities, and even by the odd chance that you are, I don't think you'll have much trouble selling it.

Good luck with your decision!!

[bearkeithley]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm sure that I can sell any G series camera for what I bought it for, if not very close to that price, if it ends up not suiting my needs. I'm looking at a pretty good deal on a G9 right now. I'll let you know how it all plays out.

[jr_senator]

I have had my G5 for several years now. I use my 3 cameras pretty much the same as NaturalMystic (post #9). I keep it in the same rolling case as my DSLR gear and it goes along with it's much bigger brother. I have had situations where I needed it's use in the field. It serves well as my backup.

[robrobin]

Here's a quick shot in manual on my G11. Just got it for my birthday. With a combination of open lens and higher focal length (zoom) you can blur the background as well as in macro mode. Not sure about the terminology but the pic will get the point across. Just got it so I'm playing around. Certainly not the shallow DOF that you can obtain on DSLR's. I've gotten used to the live view especially with the articulated screen of the G11. I use it off to the side and tilted up. I wear glasses so to be able to move the screen is a blessing.
Rob

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee145/robrobin102051/IMG_0182.jpg

[Erik_L]

The S90 has an F/2 lens, but less zoom and no view finder...

[ohansen]

I've done exactly that, got a G11 just before going to Sardinia, cheap grey import and the English copy of the manual didn't arrive before I flew out so most of the shots were in fully auto mode. Here's a small selection, straight out of the camera, as you can see from the file numbering I didn't get a chance to do many tests before I left, and never having used a G-series camera not having a manual was a bit of a shock :-) !

http://www.pbase.com/digitalove/g11_first_shots

Check the "original" size to judge sharpness etc.

All in all pretty damn pleased with it, except for my right thumb always hitting the buttons on the right hand accidentally, on one occasion turning the setting for my video to B&W&yellow, uh?

Anyway, got back last night, time to read the manual now...

http://www.pbase.com/digitalove/image/118721675/large.jpg
(http://www.pbase.com/digitalove/image/118721675/large.jpg)

[bearkeithley]

If any of you guys are still interested, I've got to let you know that I just bought a G10. I haven't done much with it yet, but I'll post some samples and my thoughts within the next week or so.

[mtnbikur]

If any of you guys are still interested, I've got to let you know that I just bought a G10. I haven't done much with it yet, but I'll post some samples and my thoughts within the next week or so.

I'm definitley interested. I'm looking at the G10/G11 for hiking. It sucks lugging the 40D w/10-22 wide angle for scenic shots because of the weight. Then add in the fact that you happen across some elk or moose and they look like a little spec at 22mm. I just want something with a little more versatility and much lighter weight!

They G10/G11 are so close in price, why did you go with the G10? I'm tending to lean that way as well. The G11 has a newer sensor which doesn't seem to me to be proven. I tend to not buy anything on it's first trip out of the factory.

[bluesguitar2]

I had the same question-- a quick jump over to Amazon shows both selling for exactly the same price: $499.99.

Why the G10 vs. the G11. Would seem to me that newer would be better, especially with Canon?

[bearkeithley]

I had the same question-- a quick jump over to Amazon shows both selling for exactly the same price: $499.99.

Why the G10 vs. the G11. Would seem to me that newer would be better, especially with Canon?

Bought used. I'm not into all that "new" gear with those huge prices. Just picked up a great condition G10 with all original accessories for $325, which I don't think is that bad.

[macabee]

having not owned a Canon since I had the EOS 1v a few years ago, I decided to buy the G10
recently.
Whilst I did not appreciate the swing back screen on the G11 and I did want a compact with an optical viewfinder I settled for the G10, I was not disappointed.

If you can get the G10, go for it.


Cheers:cool:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu330/mac02/IMG_0115.jpg

[bearkeithley]

If anyone here is interested, I got the G10, used it for a few weeks, and now I've decided to sell it. Other than ease of use as a result of all the wheels and ring selectors, I can't justify it for myself over any other decent point and shoot. The most fun I had with it was when I used it with a bounced 430EX II, and at that point, it wouldn't have been much worse to use my 30D. Regarding travel, I took it to vegas with me and realized that for all my poorly-shot, drunken photos, I don't need such a high end compact. Maybe if I were hiking somewhere whilst sober, it'd be better, but I'm too lazy for hiking these days.

It's definitely the best point and shoot I've ever used, but I guess I'm just not that into point and shoots. Anywho, it's for sale in the Marketplace if anyone wants it.

Here's a sample of a photo of my old lady with the flash bounced off the wall to the right. It's one of my faves from my short time with the G10.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2674/4145969212_e756093491_b.jpg

But if I'm using a flash that's bigger than my camera, why not just shoot with an SLR anyway?

[mathogre]

If anyone here is interested, I got the G10, used it for a few weeks, and now I've decided to sell it. Other than ease of use as a result of all the wheels and ring selectors, I can't justify it for myself over any other decent point and shoot. The most fun I had with it was when I used it with a bounced 430EX II, and at that point, it wouldn't have been much worse to use my 30D. Regarding travel, I took it to vegas with me and realized that for all my poorly-shot, drunken photos, I don't need such a high end compact. Maybe if I were hiking somewhere whilst sober, it'd be better, but I'm too lazy for hiking these days.

It's definitely the best point and shoot I've ever used, but I guess I'm just not that into point and shoots. Anywho, it's for sale in the Marketplace if anyone wants it.

Here's a sample of a photo of my old lady with the flash bounced off the wall to the right. It's one of my faves from my short time with the G10.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2674/4145969212_e756093491_b.jpg

But if I'm using a flash that's bigger than my camera, why not just shoot with an SLR anyway?

Your old lady is cute and hawt (a keeper definitely and apparently a really good sport). :D I grok what you mean though wrt the G10. I have a G9 and an XSi. I bought a 430EX in between cameras, specifically for the G9. The XSi isn't a burden to bring to places, so I find myself using my G9 very little. I still use it, but not much.

One option I've considered is converting it to IR. The surgery isn't cheap, and the practical use is limited, but it would still be a unique device. Another option is keeping the G9 as-is. It does better than the XSi kit lenses for macro, and a good macro is ~$400. Why do that when the G9 does it already, sans flash ring of course, but who cares?

Anyway, good luck selling the G10. The G series point-n-shoots are nice.

[azpix]

the g10 is great and you wont be disappointed.

[NigelD]

Definitely cute old lady but why did you remove the cigar from her mouth?

[bearkeithley]

Definitely cute old lady but why did you remove the cigar from her mouth?

haha. I don't really know what brought about that face. I think I said, "do something funny," and this is what happened.

[tmwag]

Crisp flash, nice old lady..looks like she's saying "shoot!" How did the size of 430EX feel on your G10?

[bearkeithley]

Crisp flash, nice old lady..looks like she's saying "shoot!" How did the size of 430EX feel on your G10?

It was huge. Didn't feel too heavy or anything but just made me feel (mentally) like it was only slightly more convenient than an SLR would be. It really did bring out the best in the G10 though.

[jaharris1001]

I bought a G10, sold it within 1 month,, in anything other than optimum lighting the thing sucks, its got terrible shutter lag, NOISE and bad lens distortion, not worth it to me,, its a point and shoot camera all the way, I wont risk losing a good shot to that camera,, Ill stick with my DSLR thank you very much :cool:

[tmwag]

I bought a G10, sold it within 1 month,, in anything other than optimum lighting the thing sucks, its got terrible shutter lag, NOISE and bad lens distortion, not worth it to me,, its a point and shoot camera all the way, I wont risk losing a good shot to that camera,, Ill stick with my DSLR thank you very much :cool:

So Jim, don't hold anything back, tell us how you really feel:p

[jaharris1001]

So Jim, don't hold anything back, tell us how you really feel:p
LOLOL :lol: I was in a venting mood when I wrote this LOL ;)

[zeker]

Along with my G10, I have a 20D and 5D with a myriad of L-Series lenses. The camera I reach for most often is the G10. It's considered a compact camera, but does everthing my SLRs do and more. The real time exposure control is so acurate that my post processing has been mostly reduced to cropping. When I do need to go a little longer or wider than the G10 allows, I switch to one of the SLRs but still set up the exposure with the G10. Every serious photographer should have one of these little gems.

[Chairman7w]

Along with my G10, I have a 20D and 5D with a myriad of L-Series lenses. The camera I reach for most often is the G10. It's considered a compact camera, but does everthing my SLRs do and more. The real time exposure control is so acurate that my post processing has been mostly reduced to cropping. When I do need to go a little longer or wider than the G10 allows, I switch to one of the SLRs but still set up the exposure with the G10. Every serious photographer should have one of these little gems.

Agreed. I love my G10, and apparently so do a lot of reviewers (see any major photography website).

[bearkeithley]

Agreed. I love my G10, and apparently so do a lot of reviewers (see any major photography website).

Like I said, the G10 is the best P&S I've ever used, and it's a great camera as it is. However, I found for my uses, I couldn't be happy with it compared to a DSLR.

[GSeries1]

Like I said, the G10 is the best P&S I've ever used, and it's a great camera as it is. However, I found for my uses, I couldn't be happy with it compared to a DSLR.

Absolutely, no comparison...

[linh811]

For those with kids, sometimes you just can't lug around all the kiddie stuff (diapers, milk, bottles, etc...) and your DSLR setup at the same time. That's when I shove my G9 in my pocket and go :)

[linh811]

Like I said, the G10 is the best P&S I've ever used, and it's a great camera as it is. However, I found for my uses, I couldn't be happy with it compared to a DSLR.

I guess, by the same logic, I couldn't be happy with anything less than an L lens :)

[Chairman7w]

I guess, by the same logic, I couldn't be happy with anything less than an L lens :)

Or a Mercedes.

[linh811]

Or a Mercedes.

here's mine, only room for 2 though :)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/linh811/xyz/IMG_2754.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/linh811/xyz/IMG_2809.jpg

[tmwag]

You shouldn't be happy with dreadful framing and focus:p

[linh811]

You shouldn't be happy with dreadful framing and focus:p

I didn't take the pictures, was at a local 'club meet.' Plus I suck, and my pics probably would have been worse anyway haha

[NigelD]

If you're that unhappy at your photographic abilities - I say YOU keep the car and send all the photo gear to ME. For research purposes of course!

[GSeries1]

You shouldn't be happy with dreadful framing and focus:p

bw!

[Tallking]

Absolutely, no comparison...

I have to disagree. So long as you understand the G10's parameters (limitations) compared to contemporary SLRs, and shoot with within those limits, you'll do just fine with a G10. Of course,the key is realistically assessing your shooting context and the applicable limits of your camera choices. Hey, so long as you stay within its box, a 126 film Instamatic can preserve stunning images. You just have to understand and respect the dimensions of the applicable box. :cool:

[GSeries1]

I have to disagree. So long as you understand the G10's parameters (limitations) compared to contemporary SLRs, and shoot with within those limits, you'll do just fine with a G10. Of course,the key is realistically assessing your shooting context and the applicable limits of your camera choices. Hey, so long as you stay within its box, a 126 film Instamatic can preserve stunning images. You just have to understand and respect the dimensions of the applicable box. :cool:

Exactly, the G10 would be very "limited" compared to a DSLR... You can't even really compare the two... A DSLR has superior AF, AI, Control, IQ, Noise, Depth of Field control etc. etc.

A G10 makes fantastic pics of slow and non-moving subjects in good light and has a wonderfully small size.

[Tallking]

Exactly, the G10 would be very "limited" compared to a DSLR... You can't even really compare the two... A DSLR has superior AF, AI, Control, IQ, Noise, Depth of Field control etc. etc.

A G10 makes fantastic pics of slow and non-moving subjects in good light and has a wonderfully small size.

I'd have to say that it depends upon the "comparison" you're trying to make. I have a neat little Lowe bag that perfectly holds my G10 and 430EX side-by-side. A pack of 4 AA batteries occupy one side pouch, the Canon charger on the other side. In the front pouch, two spare Canon batteries for the G. This whole kit is about one-half the size of a typical lunchbox (if there is such a thing). And if I really want to cut down, I can just carry the G10 itself. Either way, I can very easily take with me a very capable camera that's, like it or not, much more portable than ANY DSLR. Hey, if I ever drive up on a flying saucer crash, I'll be taking top quality photos immediately (after, of course, rendering aid to any injured aliens... ;) ). How many of you DSLR-only guys can candidly say you're as ready to shoot as I am, anywhere, anytime?

fantastic pics of slow and non-moving subjects in good light
I'm not as pessimistic about the G10's capabilities, though I understand, and work with (instead of fighting against) the camera's limits. Last week, I decided to shoot my daughter's dive meet with the G instead of the XSi. Some would say this was a mistake (and perhaps it was), but I still managed to get a few nice keepers out of it, especially with careful use of my Imagenomic NR. Could I have done better with a 1-series body and a long L-series telephoto? Of course. And quite honestly, next time, I'll take the DSLR, but still, I got some very nice images that will be a source of pleasure for me in the future when I'm an old man marveling at my grand-kids mom's athleticism.

[GSeries1]

I'd have to say that it depends upon the "comparison" you're trying to make. I have a neat little Lowe bag that perfectly holds my G10 and 430EX side-by-side. A pack of 4 AA batteries occupy one side pouch, the Canon charger on the other side. In the front pouch, two spare Canon batteries for the G. This whole kit is about one-half the size of a typical lunchbox (if there is such a thing). And if I really want to cut down, I can just carry the G10 itself. Either way, I can very easily take with me a very capable camera that's, like it or not, much more portable than ANY DSLR. Hey, if I ever drive up on a flying saucer crash, I'll be taking top quality photos immediately (after, of course, rendering aid to any injured aliens... ;) ). How many of you DSLR-only guys can candidly say you're as ready to shoot as I am, anywhere, anytime?


I'm not as pessimistic about the G10's capabilities, though I understand, and work with (instead of fighting against) the camera's limits. Last week, I decided to shoot my daughter's dive meet with the G instead of the XSi. Some would say this was a mistake (and perhaps it was), but I still managed to get a few nice keepers out of it, especially with careful use of my Imagenomic NR. Could I have done better with a 1-series body and a long L-series telephoto? Of course. And quite honestly, next time, I'll take the DSLR, but still, I got some very nice images that will be a source of pleasure for me in the future when I'm an old man marveling at my grand-kids mom's athleticism.

Like I said the G10 is a great little camera; but like you said,,, you have to work within the cameras limitations. That's my point,, you can't really compare a DSLR with a G10 because the G10 is so handicapped that it loses in pretty much every theater except portability. Anyone who is thinking about getting one really should get it out of their mind that this going to have anything close to DSLR performance, even an entry level one,,, having said that when you compare it to other point and shoots it is superior to practically all of them sans the micro 4/3 stuff. It's the camera to have with you when lugging a DSLR is just too much...