I finally bought a pair of Alien Bees

[MT Stringer]

I have been putting off the purchase for a long time due to the initial outlay for lights and stands. But, with a basketball tournament coming up in mid November, I needed to make a decision. Friday afternoon, just before I was to leave to go shoot a volleyball game, the brown truck pulled up in front of the house.

I now have 2 new AB 1600's w/carrying cases and 2 new 13 foot air cushioned light stands. Heck I don't even know what to do with 'em. Guess I better test them out before tournament time.

I used a pair like these 2 weekends ago to shoot a college basketball game (or 8 ) and after about 15 minutes, I knew I had to have a pair. They worked great.

So, I need to figure out how to tote them to the gym. I've seen a thread and some examples people have described. I've looked at the Stanley FAT Max models at Lowes and may go with one of those models. Wheels are a must, and hopefully I can fit the two lights, cords, Skyports, a bag with clamps, tape, tie wraps, etc. along with my laptop and most of all, the camera backpack. That would only leave the stands to tote. I can pull the rest.

Another thing I plan to get is a good security cable so I can lock the box to something rigid. That way I don't have to keep my eye on the box and can concentrate on shooting.

Prolly wind up looking like the Beverly Hillbillies are coming to town! :-)

[c2thew]

setting up the strobes in a gym would be a challenge. i've never seen setups like this, but i'm sure it requires a ladder and some mounting gear.

[bobbyz]

Mike,

Congrats on getting the bees. You going to like them.

[MT Stringer]

setting up the strobes in a gym would be a challenge.

Depending on the school, it may be. At the last school, I mounted a super clamp on the hand rail which was against the back wall. That was an easy walk up the steps to about 12 foot height, mount the clamp, Bee and Skyport receiver, and aim the flash direction upwards toward the ceiling out over the court. I ran the extension cord next to the wall and plugged it in at the receptacle at the bottom of the stairs.

The other light had to be mounted on a light stand, so it was about 10 feet up aimed in like wise direction. I had to run the extension cord along the wall about 20 feet to the nearest receptacle. Only problem was the cord had to cross the walk through between the two courts. I taped it down with gaffers tape and all went well.

If handrails are available, I'll use them even if I have to secure the light stand to them and raise it somewhat. Otherwise, I'll use the stands in each corner.

Mike

[TMR Design]

If you're setting up and mounting strobes, obviously you're going to need permission. You should also make sure you have a good insurance policy to cover you in the event that anything happens.

Not only do you need the grip and mounting hardware but you should have bungee and/or safety cables as a backup in the event that hardware fails, comes loose or a strobe drops or falls. Be extra careful with light stands and if possible avoid using them. The legs of a light stand are just asking to be tripped over and you don't want someone getting hurt or a light stand tipping into a crowd.

[MT Stringer]

Thanks Robert for the info. I have all of that stuff you mentioned except for the insurance. :-(

MaxPreps is a platinum sponsor of the McDonalds Texas Invitationl Basketball Tournament (http://www.texasinvitational.com/) and all coaches and officials have been notified that we will be strobing the games. I don't know yet if I will stay at one gym all three days or move around. There are eight high school gyms in the area and San Jac College that will be used.

Since I live with 15 miles of all of the schools, I plan to go take a look ahead of time if I find out soon enough which gym I am assigned to.

Edit: Here are a few pics from the Shalin JUCO Showcase (http://mtstringer.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/Stalin-Hoops-Invitational/10042938_8K9ic#688143519_Bu7to) that I shot. I hope to reproduce this kind of light and quality at the upcoming tournament.

[MT Stringer]

Here's a couple of pics of the Bee in action tonight at the volleyball game. I turned off the transmitter so I could take a shot of my setup. Dang those bleachers were hard to climb. No doubt they were installed in the 60's, steep steps with no isle. I was give out and thankfully I took exactly what I needed so I only had to make one trip up and down...twice! :-)

I couldn't believe it when I started taking the light down. I never did hook up my security cable for this light. But sure enough, if you look closely, you will see the green coated cable just dangling with the snap on the end.

Super clamp, Alien Bee (AB 1600), security cable, Elinchrom Skyport receiver and 110 v power. And some caution tape to ward of the grizzlies!

That's my story and I'm stickin to it! :-)
Mike

[bobbyz]

Mike, nice setup shots. For your case, wouldn't 11" reflector be better than the 7" standard reflector?

[MT Stringer]

For your case, wouldn't 11" reflector be better than the 7" standard reflector?

Thanks Bobbyz. I don't know what the advantage of the 11 in reflectors have. I'm new to this type of lighting. The two Bees light up the entire floor with a little light drop off on the far side. I compensated by opening the lens a little (when I would think about it and plan ahead of time).
Mike

[george m w]

Thanks Bobbyz. I don't know what the advantage of the 11 in reflectors have. I'm new to this type of lighting. The two Bees light up the entire floor with a little light drop off on the far side
Mike,
You are bouncing them off the ceiling at full power, right ?

[MT Stringer]

yes sir.

[Alejandro Sandoval]

Welcome to the color shifting world.....ooooooooopsssssssssss !

[george m w]

Welcome to the color shifting world.....ooooooooopsssssssssss .....

....don't start it Alex !:D:lol:
I was watching one of the sekonic classroom vids ( Kirk Tuck )....and in one segment he is using a .....gasp ! ....AlienBee !

Oh lord....if I only had a small fraction of his talent and knowledge.....

[Alejandro Sandoval]

....don't start it Alex !:D:lol:
I was watching one of the sekonic classroom vids ( Kirk Tuck )....and in one segment he is using a .....gasp ! ....AlienBee !

Oh lord....if I only had a small fraction of his talent and knowledge.....


:D:D:D I know....I'm just frustrated....trust me lot's of well known Photographers use Ab products.....

[DDCSD]

Welcome to the color shifting world.....ooooooooopsssssssssss !


Most sports shooters couldn't care less about a couple of hundred degrees of color temp shift (that you won't get much, if any, of at full power) when you compare it to the several thousand degree shift that you would normally get in your typical gym.

Why is it that every thread about strobes turn into an Alien Bees bashing thread?

[DDCSD]

Mike, where's the results?!?! Did you get much ghosting in the arms/hands/VB?

[TMR Design]

Most sports shooters couldn't care less about a couple of hundred degrees of color temp shift (that you won't get much, if any, of at full power) when you compare it to the several thousand degree shift that you would normally get in your typical gym.

Why is it that every thread about strobes turn into an Alien Bees bashing thread?

Hey Derek. I just want to clarify something. The issue is not color temperature shift. We've all accepted that all strobes will shift in color temperature. The shift is in tint. Totally different and on a different axis.

[DDCSD]

Hey Derek. I just want to clarify something. The issue is not color temperature shift. We've all accepted that all strobes will shift in color temperature. The shift is in tint. Totally different and on a different axis.


Tint, shift, red one shot and blue the next. My point is that the OP likely couldn't care less when he's using them to bounce off the ceiling of a gym at full power for shooting sports. There's really no reason to even make the original color shift comment other than to stir things up and/or pick a fight.

I'm not even going to pretend like I know the difference between a color temperature shift and a tint shift (other than they have separate sliders in LR2). All I know is that it makes no difference for sports shooting.

[TMR Design]

Tint, shift, red one shot and blue the next. My point is that the OP likely couldn't care less when he's using them to bounce off the ceiling of a gym at full power for shooting sports. There's really no reason to even make the original color shift comment other than to stir things up and/or pick a fight.

I'm not even going to pretend like I know the difference between a color temperature shift and a tint shift. All I know is that it makes no difference for sports shooting.

I agree and simply wanted to be technically correct about what was happening. I'm not trying to stir things up at all.

[DDCSD]

I agree and simply wanted to be technically correct about what was happening. I'm not trying to stir things up at all.


I know you're not Robert!

[MT Stringer]

where's the results?!?! Did you get much ghosting in the arms/hands/VB?

I only have a couple to share. I didn't get to shoot long because the visiting team coach complained to the refs the lights were a "Bother". It wasn't the lights, it was the other team that was kicking their but!

So, I shut them down, took a break and watched the home team sweep the visitors 3-0. Nope, my lights weren't their problem. I was there representing CBS MaxPreps. The editor won't accept volleyball pics that haven't been strobed so my evening was over. And the visiting team is from my home town! One of the dads taught my daughter in high school. He is now a principle at one of the campuses in the district. It was his daughters last game. It's a shame I didn't get any good ones of her.

I did get a few balls and arms that showed some ghosting. I'm not sure how to rectify that.
In the games last weekend some pics were just fine, then I would get a few with some ghosting - blur like.

Oh well, I'll get it worked out in a week or so when basketball gets cranked up.

Mike

[DDCSD]

That's why I went with the AB800's. I was a bit concerned with getting some ghosting in the outer limbs/ball with the longer flash duration of the AB1600's.

Looks like you got some pretty nice lighting going on there. Looks like the backs are a little better lit than the fronts though. Were the strobes in the corners?


Gotta love the strobe complainers. My favorite line to the team getting spanked is "Well, it doesn't seem to bother the other team..." Too bad I don't have the guts to use it. :lol:

[MT Stringer]

Thanks Derek. This turned out to be a long afternoon for me. And it's a long story.

I got lost and couldn't find the gym (2 campuses and Murphy's Law at work). The late afternoon sun was blinding me and that made it even worse trying to find my way around the schools. I had a low blood sugar moment during all of this and that like to have brought me to my knees, but I grabbed a snack and a real Coke and that took care of that.

I was winded by the time I got the lights set up on each end of the bleachers on the top hand rail. I tried to aim them accordingly. The bleachers were hard for me to go up and down. The receptacles were up under the bleachers and I almost used a whole 50' ext. cord to plug into one. I just barely had enough time to get the cameras ready and go talk to the refs.



I didn't try to readjust the lights. I was too tired and still kinda shaky. And then by that time the coach was complaining so...you know the rest.

I do have some better pics from last weekend but I haven't had a chance to pick any out for sharing. When I get some ready for MaxPreps, I'll post the link.
Mike

[DDCSD]

Sometimes that happens! Always a chance to learn though. The shots look pretty good anyways, just was curious about that. That's why I love bounced strobes, as long as you don't shoot straight into the strobe and flare your lens out you usually end up with good colors and shots that are easy to work with.

[bobbyz]

Mike, Any reason for using 1/200. I would have bumped that up to 1/320 with your 1dmk3. You should be able to get f4 at ISO400. That will knowck down ambient a little more and help reduce the blur.

[MT Stringer]

I can use 1/300. That is the sync for the MK III. I need to pay more attention to my settings because sometimes I change the settings and don't even know it. I found my shutter set on 1/125 at one point last weekend. I've been using 1/200 and 1/250.

The 40D has a 17-40 f/4 on it and I have bumped the ISO to 500 and that lets me use it with no problem. I have a Skyport transmitter on both bodies. That has worked really well.

Since I'm the OP, I guess I can ask...
How or what do you do in a larger venue such as a convention center? I'm thinking my only option is to set up the light stands. I am sure I will get another bit of education this coming Friday when I get to the State Championship Final Four for TAPPS (http://www.tapps.net/PDF/Athletics/Volleyball/TAPPS2009VolleyballStateChampionships.pdf) Girls Volleyball. I guess I'm thinking large seating making it hard to mount the lights anywhere close to the floor unless I set up light stands.
Mike

[gromeo]

Mike, one way I use to find out if I will be over powering ambient lighting and not get any ghosting.
I will make several ambient exposure at the highest camera sync speed possible, and then adjust aperture till I get a mostly dark image, once I get this I turn on my strobes and take a shot, this will let me know that I have over powered ambient light and not have any ghosting. Give it a try.

[DDCSD]

How or what do you do in a larger venue such as a convention center? I'm thinking my only option is to set up the light stands. I am sure I will get another bit of education this coming Friday when I get to the State Championship Final Four for TAPPS (http://www.tapps.net/PDF/Athletics/Volleyball/TAPPS2009VolleyballStateChampionships.pdf) Girls Volleyball. I guess I'm thinking large seating making it hard to mount the lights anywhere close to the floor unless I set up light stands.
Mike

About all you can do in that situation is forget about bouncing and shoot them direct. The 11" reflectors are very helpful for very large venues like that. you can get away with having them fairly far away and still get great settings when shooting direct. You'll just have to deal with the harsh shadows, but its better than ambient!

[MT Stringer]

I will make several ambient exposure at the highest camera sync speed possible, and then adjust aperture till I get a mostly dark image, once I get this I turn on my strobes and take a shot, this will let me know that I have over powered ambient light and not have any ghosting.
Thanks. I may have to write this down so I don't forget it.
Mike

[gromeo]

How or what do you do in a larger venue such as a convention center? I'm thinking my only option is to set up the light stands. I am sure I will get another bit of education this coming Friday when I get to the State Championship Final Four for TAPPS (http://www.tapps.net/PDF/Athletics/Volleyball/TAPPS2009VolleyballStateChampionships.pdf) Girls Volleyball. I guess I'm thinking large seating making it hard to mount the lights anywhere close to the floor unless I set up light stands.
Mike

I agree with Derek, with large venues it is really hard to bounce lights, I find having lights up high works more to my advantage cause they are less noticeable, less complaints especially in volleyball. I mounted my strobes for BB last week in the cat walk, I have it placed under one of the big lights which really makes it less noticeable. I do the same setup in the VB arena.
Good luck and have fun Friday.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z52/guzmanphoto/DSCN0392.jpg

[MT Stringer]

Thanks for the feedback.
Romeo, how is your strobe mounted? I can't figure it out.
Reason I ask, last night at the game, there was a top railing that was larger in diameter than the superclamp is capable of clamping to. Thankfully, the bleacher handrail was available to attach it to.

[george m w]

Quote:
Originally Posted by george m w
....don't start it Alex !
I was watching one of the sekonic classroom vids ( Kirk Tuck )....and in one segment he is using a .....gasp ! ....AlienBee !

Oh lord....if I only had a small fraction of his talent and knowledge.....

....to which Alex responded:


I know....I'm just frustrated....trust me lot's of well known Photographers use Ab products.....
Well first of all Alex, I have to agree with a lot of others here that think your photos are nothing short of fabulous. So....color ( tint ) shift notwithstanding....what more is there to say about your shots....?

But then you go on to say you are "frustrated". To that, I would say, when I am frustrated by the limitations of ANY piece of equipment, and I don't mean just photo gear....it could be one of the motorcycles, a piece of tack equipment for the horses, a truck, or some camera gear....if it frustrates me, and I can't come up with a reasonable work-around solution....then it goes away. Simple as that: I sell it. So if AB's are giving you the fits, why not just unload them ? From what I have seen, they bring good money in the used market.

[gromeo]

Thanks for the feedback.
Romeo, how is your strobe mounted? I can't figure it out.
Reason I ask, last night at the game, there was a top railing that was larger in diameter than the superclamp is capable of clamping to. Thankfully, the bleacher handrail was available to attach it to.

Mike, not sure of the diameter of the pipes, I will be shooting there tonight so I will have to measure them. Anyways, I use super clamps then I run a heavy duty zip tie through that.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z52/guzmanphoto/DSCN0392-1.jpg

[ToddR]

This is slightly off-topic, but somewhat relevant. Do some professional venues have permanent, high-end strobes mounted in the ceiling, catwalks, etc., which can be fired by professional sports photographers with the proper radio remote? Seems like I saw something about that on a television program once. Sort of "house strobes," if you will.

[gromeo]

This is slightly off-topic, but somewhat relevant. Do some professional venues have permanent, high-end strobes mounted in the ceiling, catwalks, etc., which can be fired by professional sports photographers with the proper radio remote? Seems like I saw something about that on a television program once. Sort of "house strobes," if you will.

Most of your NBA teams have strobes in their arena used by the team photographer and the local paper may have a set of strobes also. I put my strobes up for the season and take down at the end. I use PW Multi Max's which are programed to my personal freq so they can not be fired by anyone else. I have heard some venues will rent strobes, but the cost is usually outrageous, other wise only the group that puts up the strobes use them.

[c2thew]

awesome thread

[KrautFed]

I just wanted to jump in here because this seems specific to my needs. I want to strobe gyms, but I'm hesitant on whether to get AB1600 or AB800. I'm concerned about the flash duration most of all (obviously) but I'm also concerned about amount of output. You guys strobing gyms with AB800's, how many are you using, and do you only flash one end of the gym?

[DDCSD]

I just wanted to jump in here because this seems specific to my needs. I want to strobe gyms, but I'm hesitant on whether to get AB1600 or AB800. I'm concerned about the flash duration most of all (obviously) but I'm also concerned about amount of output. You guys strobing gyms with AB800's, how many are you using, and do you only flash one end of the gym?


I use two AB800's and put them in the corners (basketball). I try to cheat them towards the 3 point lines if possible.

In a typical gym with average height ceilings I'll get around f/5 at ISO 400, depending on how I bounce them.

[wyofizz]

I just wanted to jump in here because this seems specific to my needs. I want to strobe gyms, but I'm hesitant on whether to get AB1600 or AB800. I'm concerned about the flash duration most of all (obviously) but I'm also concerned about amount of output. You guys strobing gyms with AB800's, how many are you using, and do you only flash one end of the gym?

It depends on how high your ceilings are, color and texture.
If you have lower and light colored ceilings the AB800's are the way to go.
The AB1600's flash durations will work for BBall.
There are all kinds of variables involved to get a good shot. Most require experimentation in the gym.

[MT Stringer]

Mike, where's the results?!?! Did you get much ghosting in the arms/hands/VB?

Here's the pics from a game last weekend. Strobes were mounted on the top bleacher hand rail on either end of the court.

I hope to duplicate these or get some better shot this coming weekend.

MaxPreps (http://www.maxpreps.com/photo/gallery.aspx?imageid=0d993e84-a00e-4071-91d7-e991e53cf969&photogalleryid=d2514190-c8d1-41f4-a85a-282022e8b897#imageid=0d993e84-a00e-4071-91d7-e991e53cf969)

Mike