motorsports Ins. ?

[kawboy613]

just wondering if anyone can answer this for me....

I'm wanting to get into motorsports photography (REALLY need to work on my settings and panning abilites though)... ANYWAYS....

Recently at a local open trackday at Gateway International next to St. Louis, Mo. They told me to get past the fence line and on or near the track I needed Insurance, and then they walked away without explaining in more detail or being of any help at all.

Can someone here explain this to me, I'm hoping by next years motorcycle racing season I'll have the len's I'm looking at and the ability to take better shots.

here's a couple of my "newbie w/a 35mm Rebel 75-300 4-5.6 USM" Obviously at the wrong shutter speed for panning and probably too far away too, and like a typical newb I bought the wrong speed film...800, so my shots turned out a bit grainy.

I want to be out next to the guy in the second pic hiding behind the stacks of tires on the corner.... not behind the fence line in the pits :cry:

[Cadwell]

Most track-day events will require you to carry public liability insurance. That's not really the issue, though.

Do you have a purpose for being track side? Do you have a business selling photos to the participants with the agreement of the event organisers or if it's a sporting event are you shooting it for some recognised media? If the answer to those questions is "no" then most places won't allow you track side.

Just "wanting to get a better angle" or getting there because it's normally off-limits to the public is not a good enough reason. Track side is a work environment and you shouldn't be there unless you're working.

[Mike Hoyer]

I'm wanting to get into motorsports photography (REALLY need to work on my settings and panning abilites though)...

Well being trackside won't help with that really. Keep practicing until you are proficient.

Recently at a local open trackday at Gateway International next to St. Louis, Mo. They told me to get past the fence line and on or near the track I needed Insurance, and then they walked away without explaining in more detail or being of any help at all.

Sounds like you need to ask them if you want more detail. As far as they're concerned they are keeping you out of an out of bounds area, and that's all they need to do.

Can someone here explain this to me, I'm hoping by next years motorcycle racing season I'll have the len's I'm looking at and the ability to take better shots.

As above really. Even if you do have the "best lens" and can take great pictures, it doesn't automatically give you the right to go where you want. You need a reason to be there.

[kawboy613]

I do understand that I can't just go where ever I want and that it IS a "working" environment and I need a reason to be there. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night... I'm here for help because I am very interested in photography and possibly making a career of it. Yes, I'm a newbie, but we all have to start somewhere, right?

That's what I'm here asking about, how do I get the Ins. (ok I need to ask them for more specific details).

but also, how does one go about making this into a "working environment" ?
Do i just practice practice practice and get more proficient and start my own website, or do I try and speak with one of the photographers whom are already out there for "work" and ask about maybe an apprenticeship type of start into this career?

[Cadwell]

You've already been given the answer but it seems you're not keen on reading it.

"agreement of the event organisers" - so talk to whoever is organising the event
or
"recognised media" - which means a talk to a newspaper, magazine or suchlike and ask them to get you credentials to an event. Something that someone has actually heard of and reads will help as most events are fussy about who they let in.

Other photographers won't be interested in helping you. You're "competition", why should they cut their own throats?

[andrewc]

You'll also have to show several examples of similar work published within the last year of application. Each circuit has slightly different requirements about what they want so its best to ask each circuit.

[DC Fan]

Find another location at the same track, or another track. There likely will be other facilities with a more laid-back atmosphere that will let you go where you want to go.


http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/20090829a1031.jpg

Here's a motorcycle road racing image from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, where there are only a few useful places to get close images of racers on the infield circuit. It took some walking to find a couple of good locations, none of which were near the pits.



http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/20091025a0442.jpg

And here's an image from a cross-country race near Crawfordsville, Ind., held on a ten-mile course where no one cares where you stand to watch, as long as you don't get hit.

There are many more tracks where better photographic locations are available for the price of an admission ticket or a pit pass. You just need to find the right place at the right time, and a big, corporate-owned superspeedway may be the wrong place.

[kawboy613]

You've already been given the answer but it seems you're not keen on reading it.

"agreement of the event organisers" - so talk to whoever is organising the event
or
"recognised media" - which means a talk to a newspaper, magazine or suchlike and ask them to get you credentials to an event. Something that someone has actually heard of and reads will help as most events are fussy about who they let in.

Other photographers won't be interested in helping you. You're "competition", why should they cut their own throats?



Cadwell, No, I did read it, but thank you, that makes more sense. Sorry, I'm a little slow sometimes, like i said, I'm a newbie and just trying to figure out how to even get started.... you know, the whole if I could just get my foot through the door kinda theory.
So now that I got that staightened out and understand what you meant, obviously things most likely are not going to happen as soon or as easily as I thought (but what ever does?) So does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get something published like AndrewC was speaking of.

I guess I'm just going to have to start bringing a ladder to the pits to get over the fence line for a while until some of my shots start getting noticed and maybe start my own photo site. I didn't even consider the "Competition" factor like you said and other photographers not wanting to help a "new guy".... So for that, thank you for the answers to my questions!

DC Fan- nice shots, but as far a more laid-back, I don't think it can get more laid back then where I'm talking about. We don't have large MotoGP or AMA races here, just local stuff like MCRA and WERA i think. I suppose those are the guys that I need to start talking to, the "event organisers", ok, now I'm catching on i think.

[Cadwell]

Getting some work published is where you run across motorsport photography's own little "catch 22". As Andrew rightly said, many circuits would like to see examples of your published work before they grant you track-side access. Unfortunately, without being "signed on media" it is usually not legal for you to publish any of the images you take. Most venues have a "private / personal use only" condition of admission on photography for people there on a public ticket.

[kawboy613]

Getting some work published is where you run across motorsport photography's own little "catch 22". As Andrew rightly said, many circuits would like to see examples of your published work before they grant you track-side access. Unfortunately, without being "signed on media" it is usually not legal for you to publish any of the images you take. Most venues have a "private / personal use only" condition of admission on photography for people there on a public ticket.

So as far as being published... I may never be (as I'm starting out into this at 30yrs old)... So maybe my own "road side photos" type of website might be the way to go for me, on the local "hot spot backroads".

well, either way, I love photography, so I'm in! and gonna try! (maybe Ill get lucky someday and something posted on my website will get published, doubtfull, but maybe...)

Thanks again!

[Richard Brewer]

I guess I'm just going to have to start bringing a ladder to the pits to get over the fence line for a while until some of my shots start getting noticed and maybe start my own photo site. I didn't even consider the "Competition" factor like you said and other photographers not wanting to help a "new guy".... So for that, thank you for the answers to my questions!



There are hundreds of web sites, so even if you start your own it's unlikely many people will see them. One way would be to take pictures of track action and talk to the competitors they may want some pictures from you. As for a ladder to see into the pits, no team/competitor wants pit pictures they want track action pictures and in many cases they can be taken from the public side of the fence.

[kawboy613]

There are hundreds of web sites, so even if you start your own it's unlikely many people will see them. One way would be to take pictures of track action and talk to the competitors they may want some pictures from you. As for a ladder to see into the pits, no team/competitor wants pit pictures they want track action pictures and in many cases they can be taken from the public side of the fence.

I was meaning using a ladder so i can get track action pics from the pits, not of the pits... that way I don't have to be taking pics through the fence, the last time I was standing ontop of a truck, which was just barely high enough. But it worked out good to get pics of my friends who were racing.

[Welby]

Start out with the smallest club level events you can find and get to know the people. If your any good they'll be happy for you to attend events then work your way up from there.

[philwillmedia]

Have a read of this thread...
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=673946

Once you've read it, read it again and then again until you've taken it ALL in.

[kawboy613]

Have a read of this thread...
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=673946

Once you've read it, read it again and then again until you've taken it ALL in.

with a quick glance, looks to be a good read and just the answers I'm looking for. and when i have a bit more time, i will deffinately read it! and again and again too. :D

Thank you philwillmedia !

[craigs]

Like someone said earlier start with the smaller trackday type clubs. Call the event organizers ahead of time, explain what you want to do and why. Don't ever just show up the day of an event cold expecting to get in and get access. Have the person running the driver's meeting mention you and that you will have your pictures available on-line or something like that. Offer to allow the club to use your pictures in their publication. Have cards made up with your website on it. When I am climbing out of my car after a session I don't have $20 on me to buy a picture calendar, but if that same guy handed me a card I could toss it in my tool box and email him later in the week. Make it easy for your potential customers. We are there to race. I don't have my wallet on me and don't have time to look for you.

After awhile you will get to know the track staff too. You will know the flaggers, the security etc...this will allow you even more access than what the clubs can get you on their own.

I am not a professional photographer so I may get flamed for the next two bits of advice:
1. Take a few freebies of the guys helping you out. If it's a guy that is driving send him a couple shots. If it's one of the stewards take a shot of them preaching at a driver's meeting.
2. Get ceative and meet people. One personal example. I travel a ton and while travelling I stop by local tracks. Two years ago I went to a track while a team was practicing and walked around, met their publicity director and talked cars. When the big event was coming to town I called him up and asked how to buy tickets. Unfortunately, he was no longer with that team, but he was in charge of the track's publicity. He set me up with a mechanic pass - go anywhere anytime. I have ended up many times where I couldn't have been if I hadn't done some work ahead of time. Again, get out and make contacts weeks and months before events.

Craig

[kawboy613]

Like someone said earlier start with the smaller trackday type clubs. Call the event organizers ahead of time, explain what you want to do and why. Don't ever just show up the day of an event cold expecting to get in and get access. Have the person running the driver's meeting mention you and that you will have your pictures available on-line or something like that. Offer to allow the club to use your pictures in their publication. Have cards made up with your website on it. When I am climbing out of my car after a session I don't have $20 on me to buy a picture calendar, but if that same guy handed me a card I could toss it in my tool box and email him later in the week. Make it easy for your potential customers. We are there to race. I don't have my wallet on me and don't have time to look for you.

After awhile you will get to know the track staff too. You will know the flaggers, the security etc...this will allow you even more access than what the clubs can get you on their own.

I am not a professional photographer so I may get flamed for the next two bits of advice:
1. Take a few freebies of the guys helping you out. If it's a guy that is driving send him a couple shots. If it's one of the stewards take a shot of them preaching at a driver's meeting.
2. Get ceative and meet people. One personal example. I travel a ton and while travelling I stop by local tracks. Two years ago I went to a track while a team was practicing and walked around, met their publicity director and talked cars. When the big event was coming to town I called him up and asked how to buy tickets. Unfortunately, he was no longer with that team, but he was in charge of the track's publicity. He set me up with a mechanic pass - go anywhere anytime. I have ended up many times where I couldn't have been if I hadn't done some work ahead of time. Again, get out and make contacts weeks and months before events.

Craig



great idea! I didn't even think about using the motorcycle club website users i belong to... many of them race, coach, direct, etc. at the local club events..... (DUH Kawboy!!!)

I actually ride the backroads and dreamnt of racing a few years ago, but after some bad motocross accidents and injured back and neck, (gave up on that) my street riding has gone from 20k miles a summer to only around 6k, which is why i started thinking about the photography side of things. that way, I can still be a part of what i love,

Oh the smell of hot rubber, race fuel, and competition!!!! :D