Is "bokeh" even really a word?

[tkbslc]

Bokeh seems like one of those words that is misused a ton and means different things to different people. Some say it is the AMOUNT of blur, some say it is how nice the blur looks, others say it is only how nice the highlights look. So I guess I am wondering if the word actually came from somewhere and if there is any proof on its actual meaning. Maybe it would be wise to just stop using it all together and say "the out of focus areas look nice and smooth", or "man there is a lot of bg blur in that one".

I dunno, it just seems like anytime someone says they want a lens with lots of bokeh, or the 50mm has nice bokeh, a whole debate forms about the misuse of said word. Maybe we can clear it up.

[sonic72]

check wikipedia for 'bokeh'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

[Sdiver2489]

Bokeh seems like one of those words that is misused a ton and means different things to different people. Some say it is the AMOUNT of blur, some say it is how nice the blur looks, others say it is only how nice the highlights look. So I guess I am wondering if the word actually came from somewhere and if there is any proof on its actual meaning. Maybe it would be wise to just stop using it all together and say "the out of focus areas look nice and smooth", or "man there is a lot of bg blur in that one".

I dunno, it just seems like anytime someone says they want a lens with lots of bokeh, or the 50mm has nice bokeh, a whole debate forms about the misuse of said word. Maybe we can clear it up.

Yes it's a real word, from Japanese origins and all your questions are answered here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

[pixel_junkie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

" In photography (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Photography), bokeh is the blur,[1] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-davis-0)[2] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-johnston-1) or the æsthetic quality of the blur,[3] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-2)[4] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-3)[5] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-4) in out-of-focus areas of an image. Differences in lens aberrations (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Optical_aberration) and aperture (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Aperture) shape cause some lens (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Photographic_lens) designs to blur the image in a way that is pleasing to the eye, while others produce blurring that is unpleasant or distracting— "good" or "bad" bokeh, respectively.[1] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-davis-0) Bokeh occurs for parts of the scene that lie outside the depth of field (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Depth_of_field). Photographers sometimes deliberately use a shallow focus (http://photography-on-the.net/wiki/Shallow_focus) technique to create images with prominent out-of-focus regions.
Bokeh is often most visible around small background highlights, such as specular reflections and light sources, which is why it often associated with such areas.[1] (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/#cite_note-davis-0) However, bokeh is not limited to highlights, as blur occurs in all out-of-focus regions of the image (see ostrich picture to the right). "

[k_wakasugi]

Here I'll be different and NOT cite wikipedia:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/bokeh.shtml

Either way, I feel like just posting google searches is insulting to your intelligence. I'm sure you can google just like the rest of us, was this a serious question or just intended to spark discussion? I can dig either.

[gonzogolf]

Bokeh seems like one of those words that is misused a ton and means different things to different people. Some say it is the AMOUNT of blur, some say it is how nice the blur looks, others say it is only how nice the highlights look. So I guess I am wondering if the word actually came from somewhere and if there is any proof on its actual meaning. Maybe it would be wise to just stop using it all together and say "the out of focus areas look nice and smooth", or "man there is a lot of bg blur in that one".

I dunno, it just seems like anytime someone says they want a lens with lots of bokeh, or the 50mm has nice bokeh, a whole debate forms about the misuse of said word. Maybe we can clear it up.

From your keyboard to God's ear!!!

[tkbslc]

So now wikipedia is a reliable source!? :) My college professor is having a heart attack at those very words.

Edit: Thanks k_wakasugi!

[jacuff]

Maybe we can clear it up.

Nope... ain't gonna happen. (See also: Equivalent focal length or magnification factor)

[k_wakasugi]

Nope... ain't gonna happen. (See also: Equivalent focal length or magnification factor)

:lol: Ahhh... sad but true.

[bacchanal]

So now wikipedia is a reliable source!? :) My college professor is having a heart attack at those very words.

Edit: Thanks k_wakasugi!

Interestingly enough, the LL article is one of the original 1997 articles mentioned in the wikipedia entry.

[tkbslc]

Nope... ain't gonna happen. (See also: Equivalent focal length or magnification factor)

And nobody mention "foot zooming" too loudly. :lol:

[k_wakasugi]

Can we have a thread to clear up lens vs. lense too? :D :p

[tkbslc]

Either way, I feel like just posting google searches is insulting to your intelligence. I'm sure you can google just like the rest of us, was this a serious question or just intended to spark discussion? I can dig either.

Google also turns up stuff like this though:

"You can use the word "bokeh" as convenient short-hand for "out of focus area." So, let's say you're using a fairly fast lens (meaning, with a wider aperture), and focusing on someone who is a few feet from you. You get them in focus, and because of the shallow depth of field produced by that wide aperture, the background behind your subject is out of focus."

I just wondered if there was some Japanese dictionary or something with a pure definition.

[jacuff]

Can I post another authoritative source (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/bokeh.htm)? :lol:

[Route246]

It's a relatively modern word taken from the Japanese word, boke. The spelling is phonetic.

[battletone]

So now wikipedia is a reliable source!? :) My college professor is having a heart attack at those very words.

Edit: Thanks k_wakasugi!
:
What would he say about you posting on a forum looking for the answer? Is this a reliable source anymore than Wikipedia? ;)

[Route246]

The same can be said about the entire port:80 Internet, including this forum and the professor's home page, if there is one...

:
What would he say about you posting on a forum looking for the answer? Is this a reliable source anymore than Wikipedia? ;)

[Sdiver2489]

So now wikipedia is a reliable source!? :) My college professor is having a heart attack at those very words.

Edit: Thanks k_wakasugi!

Sure it is. Look at the phrase that describes what it is. Click on the referenced citation and there you go. A perfectly legitimate source for the description.

[footballdude2k3]

dont people know that wikipedia knows all and to search there before asking questions?

[tkbslc]

:
What would he say about you posting on a forum looking for the answer? Is this a reliable source anymore than Wikipedia? ;)

Well considering I graduated 4-5 years ago, it is probably OK. I just remember getting the lecture on "wikipedia is not a source" multiple times in college.

[toxic]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=8886349&postcount=57

So now wikipedia is a reliable source!? :) My college professor is having a heart attack at those very words.

While Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, the sources it cites are often reliable. In this case, it's citing LL. We can debate the reliability of LL elsewhere...

[tkbslc]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=8886349&postcount=57



While Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, the sources it cites are often reliable. In this case, it's citing LL.

Alright, alright, I was joking about wikipedia anyway. ;)

[hpulley]

Yeah, the Japanese don't even use 暈け anymore, they use ボケ which is phonetic and funny as a term which supposedly came from them has now come around and they now use it more as a foreign term (not the only case of this, linguistics...) since it didn't really mean to blur as most people say but to fade. I suppose you can say "fade into the background" but that isn't really the same as "pleasing out of focus areas" which people use it for. Actually other meanings are halo or corona (the character contains sun and battle and an eclipse is sort of a battle between moon and sun) which kind of resembles the bokeh you get with an old mirror lens. What ever happened to them? Haven't seen them in a dog's age.

Speaking of 50mm and bokeh the nifty fifty has decent bokeh at f/1.8 or f/2.0 but once you start closing those 5 blades down it doesn't look so good. Same for the 35mm f/2.0, another 5-blader.

[Todd Lambert]

I propose a new photography related word:

Brokeh
- The state ones finds itself in when in pursuit of the perfect bokeh from high quality Japanese and German optical lenses. See also: L lenses, Leica, and Nikon.

Example: "I am so Brokeh now that I've bought the Holy Trinity!"

[hpulley]

Going brokeh for bokeh, book worthy for sure.

[Double Negative]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[tkbslc]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

inconceivable?

[Double Negative]

inconceivable?

Correct! :)

...From The Princess Bride

[BiPolarBear]

Bokeh is usually a word.
Except on camera forums where it is often an obsession.

[LowriderS10]

Bokeh seems like one of those words that is misused a ton and means different things to different people. Some say it is the AMOUNT of blur, some say it is how nice the blur looks, others say it is only how nice the highlights look. So I guess I am wondering if the word actually came from somewhere and if there is any proof on its actual meaning. Maybe it would be wise to just stop using it all together and say "the out of focus areas look nice and smooth", or "man there is a lot of bg blur in that one".

I dunno, it just seems like anytime someone says they want a lens with lots of bokeh, or the 50mm has nice bokeh, a whole debate forms about the misuse of said word. Maybe we can clear it up.

http://www.bol2riz.com/imgs/bart.gif

[yogestee]

Bokeh,,like most words in the English language have origins from other languages..

English is probably the most unpure language of all the Indo-European languages..

[Route246]

My favorite is "skosh" as in "a skosh more." Taken directly from the Japanese word, sukoshi meaning a little bit.

Bokeh,,like most words in the English language have origins from other languages..

English is probably the most unpure language of all the Indo-European languages..

[yogestee]

Remember "entrepreneur" tripping George W up??

[BenJohnson]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bokeh

[nureality]

The same can be said about the entire port:80 Internet, including this forum and the professor's home page, if there is one...

could you possibly refer to the web more geekily?

[rvdw98]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bokeh

This has instantly become my favorite site.

[BenJohnson]

This has instantly become my favorite site.
Ha! :p

[Todd Lambert]

could you possibly refer to the web more geekily?

Yes actually, but most here probably wouldn't get it! :lol:

I mean if you want to start talking packets and TCP/IP stuff.

[rvdw98]

could you possibly refer to the web more geekily?

Let's start a new thread titled: Is "geekily" even really a word?

[tkbslc]

I'm boycotting google. It is like the walmart of search engines.







http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bokeh

http://www.bol2riz.com/imgs/bart.gif

[spkerer]

Yes actually, but most here probably wouldn't get it! :lol:

I mean if you want to start talking packets and TCP/IP stuff.

At least he doesn't lump gopher in that same group! :)

[hollis_f]

Can we have a thread to clear up lens vs. lense too? :D :p

I don't think we need a thread for that.

There is no such word as 'lense' in the English language. Dictionaries that contain the word are as wrong as the people who use it.

[Double Negative]

Remember "entrepreneur" tripping George W up??

That dude couldn't even say NUC-U-LER (nuclear).

[Green_Tea]

I decided to google it and made two discoveries...
1) we are not the only one talking about it
and
2) Heart bokeh... never seen that before
Check this page out, Scroll down to the post which includes the heart bokeh image (4 from the end of the page)
CLICK HERE (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.romanzolin.com/pictures/preview/custom_bokeh.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pinoyphotography.org/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D40426.0&h=308&w=450&sz=25&tbnid=_YBPbGJDlgZHqM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbokeh&usg=__v8M_-gc3w7dY8sUJNCbL658SS4s=&ei=lsvqSufSGdH6tgf7nLwZ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ9QEwBA)
I am not sure what language is being spoken and therefore cant really understand it but the pictures pretty well explain what is happening. Has anyone tried this, does it work?

More:http://fiveprime.org/hivemind/Tags/heartbokeh,hearts

-Trevor

[Green_Tea]

OH my gosh, It works!!!!!!!!!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2582/4057461467_ff96802922.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2746/4058198800_9ce869f37e.jpg
While admittedly somewhat cheesy I will have to play around with that effect.

PS sorry for the oof p+s picture

-Trevor

[rvdw98]

To determine if something is actually a word, try using it in a sentence:

"All your bokeh are belong to us."

Q.E.D.

[neilwood32]

I think its established that it is a word but a very poorly used and understood word.

For me - blur says it all.

[Route246]

gopher is for neophytes. I prefer archie.

At least he doesn't lump gopher in that same group! :)

[Route246]

For those who don't understand what this is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

Wow, that brings back memories. Back then, I used aybabtu$ as a root and router enable password.

To determine if something is actually a word, try using it in a sentence:

"All your bokeh are belong to us."

Q.E.D.

[borealis]

either cokin or ambico used to sell those heart brokeh filters back in the the day (in a package with a bunch of other cardboard apertures). I think I had a set. All the hip young photojournalists kept them in the same gadget bag pocket as the extra AA 4-packs and phone cups for their TRS Model 100s.

[Double Negative]

...All the hip young photojournalists kept them in the same gadget bag pocket as the extra AA 4-packs and phone cups for their TRS Model 100s.

Ahh, those were heady times... The Model 100 was quite the tool back in the day!

[nicksan]

hip young photojournalists

Is there such a thing? :lol:

Or did you mean nerdy virgin photojournalists? :lol:

[rdenney]

I dunno, it just seems like anytime someone says they want a lens with lots of bokeh, or the 50mm has nice bokeh, a whole debate forms about the misuse of said word. Maybe we can clear it up.

Fat chance.

But given that "blur" is a perfectly good and understandable word to describe stuff that's out of focus, it seems to me nobody would have seen the need for a new word unless they needed something more than just to describe fuzziness. Thus, I have always taken "bokeh" to mean the quality of the blur. Otherwise, it makes more sense just to use the word "blur".

A lens with wide aperture might be able to make plenty of blur. But a lens with a smooth rendition of that blur has good bokeh. If I make bokeh the same as the blur, then I have to use a lot more words, such as:

A lens with a wide aperture might be able to make plenty of blur. But a lens with a smooth rendition of that blur is consider to be a lens that makes blurry areas look really, you know, like, smooth. You know.

Rick "thinking words emerge because they are needed" Denney

[tkbslc]

Fat chance.

But given that "blur" is a perfectly good and understandable word to describe stuff that's out of focus, it seems to me nobody would have seen the need for a new word unless they needed something more than just to describe fuzziness. Thus, I have always taken "bokeh" to mean the quality of the blur. Otherwise, it makes more sense just to use the word "blur".

A lens with wide aperture might be able to make plenty of blur. But a lens with a smooth rendition of that blur has good bokeh. If I make bokeh the same as the blur, then I have to use a lot more words, such as:

A lens with a wide aperture might be able to make plenty of blur. But a lens with a smooth rendition of that blur is consider to be a lens that makes blurry areas look really, you know, like, smooth. You know.

Rick "thinking words emerge because they are needed" Denney


How about, "that is some smooth buttery blur". "Or, those highlights in the blurred areas are nice and round.." See, I didn't need to make up a pretend japanese word, even! :)

You do bring up an ineresting phenomena of the English language, though. Importing and creating words we don't even need and already have substitutes for.

[yogestee]

How about, "that is some smooth buttery blur". "Or, those highlights in the blurred areas are nice and round.." See, I didn't need to make up a pretend japanese word, even! :)

You do bring up an ineresting phenomena of the English language, though. Importing and creating words we don't even need and already have substitutes for.

English like most languages isn't static,, it grows.. New words are added regularly.. This comes about by the advancement in science, technology, medicine etc.. In my opinion it's a tad elitist believing foreign words shouldn't be added to the English language,, the English language is dotted with foreign derived words.. German, Greek, French, Latin to name a few.. Why shouldn't English import Japanese, Chinese, Arabic etc words??

I have a great idea..Let's drop the word "photography" because it's derived from Greek and call POTN "the Painting with Light Forum" or "Painting with Light On The Net"..

[rvdw98]

Isn't forum an Italian/Latin word?

[nphsbuckeye]

Isn't forum an Italian/Latin word?
Indeed (although technically Roman). And it was a public space for discourse at that.

[yogestee]

Hamburger,,is it an American word??

[jacuff]

Hamburger,,is it an American word??

Just google it. ;)

[yogestee]

Just google it. ;)

I don't have to,,I already know the answer..

[Double Negative]

Isn't forum an Italian/Latin word?

Nah, that's forvm. :D

[Woolburr]

Can I post another authoritative source (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/bokeh.htm)? :lol:

I'm glad I quoted your post to check before clicking that link. I reported your post and have suggested the moderators seriously consider banning you permanently for posting that garbage. :rolleyes:
















:lol::lol::lol:

[nuffi]

"Bokeh" as a word makes me sad, because it kinda points out that we're all too dumb to learn stuff once we get onto the internet.

How difficult is it to understand that words with a japanese root have a syllable for each vowel?


*deep sigh*

[rvdw98]

"Bokeh" as a word makes me sad, because it kinda points out that we're all too dumb to learn stuff once we get onto the internet.

We don't even have to go on the internet for that:

"As stated before (and proven many times over) the mere presence of a computer can short circuit normally intelligent people's brains. But sometimes it's just ridiculous."

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_obvious.shtml

I lost count of how many occasions have warranted a reference to this site since its inception.

[TeeTee]

'Alfgaljwef' is a word, but does it have meaning is the real question.

And yes, to many the term 'bokeh' has meaning.

[hollis_f]

We don't even have to go on the internet for that:

"As stated before (and proven many times over) the mere presence of a computer can short circuit normally intelligent people's brains. But sometimes it's just ridiculous."

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_obvious.shtml

I lost count of how many occasions have warranted a reference to this site since its inception.

Yeah, but in this story -

I used to work in the computer help desk at a large university. A woman walked into the room and came up to where I was sitting: at a desk marked "COMPUTER HELP DESK" with computers on it, one of which I was using. "Excuse me," she asked. "Do you know anything about computers?"


I have complete sympathy with the woman. My experience with Hell-Desks suggests it's a fair question.

If you want more of something similar I can recommend this site (http://notalwaysright.com/).

[rvdw98]

'Alfgaljwef' is a word, but does it have meaning is the real question.

And yes, to many the term 'bokeh' has meaning.

A word needs to have meaning by definition, hence "Alfgaljwef" is not a word.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=91216&dict=CALD

[rvdw98]

If you want more of something similar I can recommend this site (http://notalwaysright.com/).

Which, contrary to the example you quoted, does instill complete and utter confidence as to its credibility. Like this one for example, which of course actually happened (no, really):

http://notalwaysright.com/totally-plastered/2958

:D

[20droger]

We don't even have to go on the internet for that:

"As stated before (and proven many times over) the mere presence of a computer can short circuit normally intelligent people's brains. But sometimes it's just ridiculous."

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_obvious.shtml

I lost count of how many occasions have warranted a reference to this site since its inception.
One has to remember: A computer is a device to which you give precise and detailed instructions, then sit back in horror as it does what you said, not what you want.

[rvdw98]

One has to remember: A computer is a device to which you give precise and detailed instructions, then sit back in horror as it does what you said, not what you want.

That discrepancy is what made offshoring fail so miserably.

Personally, I prefer machines that do what I say. It may not always be what I want, but at least it's consistent.