Feisol standard class or tournament class?

[heatherwb]

For the last several months, I've been on the hunt for a lighter CF tripod to replace my too-heavy Bogen Manfrotto 190XPROB. After much research and considering my budget, I'm leaning heavily towards Feisol, as they seem to have just what I want in a tripod--lightweight (under 3 lbs), folds to less than 20in, sturdy, no center column needed, and pricing that's 1/3 to 1/2 of equivalent Gitzo tripods. Obviously, they are not Gitzos, but since I'm not a pro and I'm not made of money, they should do the job for me. :)

Here are the 2 models that I'm looking at:
3401 (http://www.feisol.net/feisol-foursection-tripod-ct3401-with-tripod-p-26.html) (standard class) @$219
&
3442 (http://www.feisol.net/feisol-tournament-class-foursection-tripod-ct3442-with-tripod-p-31.html) (tournament class) @ $319

The burning question for me is whether or not the 3442 is worth spending $90 more than the 3401.

FYI, I probably won't be buying until around Christmas or a little bit after, so I'm in no real rush, but I'm just wondering...

Thanks!
Heather :)

[tvphotog]

Not everyone is a pro photographer, but buying a tripod is an investment. With Feisol, you will get one third to one half the metallurgy, stability and longevity of a Gitzo or Manfrotto cf tripod.

If you don't think you will use the tripod much, I understand your point, or if you're testing the hobby, as well. If you use the sticks alot, then in three years, the length of the Feisol warranty, you will have to buy another. A Gitzo is warranted for life.

Perhaps that fact is built into the price of a Gitzo, but the price works out to be the same...one Gitzo or two or three Feisols over ten years.

That is only MHO. It's why people buy three Chevy's or one Mercedes over a decade or so.

[ralff]

Asking product questions is like asking a Ford (or chevy owner) what kind of car to buy, there is a LOT of blind brand loyalty. I think Gitzo and Manfrotto are very good tripods but they have gotten greedy and are overpriced. That being said, do not know if tvphotog is a metalurgist, or where he found his information, I love my Feisol, though I have not used either model you are asking about. The 3401 looks like it will do you though and do not see that much to be gained by buying the 3442 unless your favorite camers/lens is on the heavier side, then I would go with the 3442. IMO

[Dave R.]

Had I not come across a good buy on a used Gitzo, Fiesol was going to be my choice. So much so, I purchased a Fiesol CB 50H ball head in anticipation of that purchase. In my research of Fiesol, I determined the tournament class was the way to go. They are somewhat better built as I understand it and as a result, somewhat more sturdy. If you decide on the Fiesol and need a darn good ball head to go with it, I would be willing to sell my CB 50H for a very good price. Contact me if interested. Good luck with your decision, but as far as I'm concerned, to much is made out of how much better one brand is than another, and if like me, you always look to maximize the purchasing power of your hard earned dollars.

[Al_at_MMO]

With Feisol, you will get one third to one half the metallurgy, stability and longevity of a Gitzo or Manfrotto cf tripod.

I'm curious what your comment is based on? Conjecture? Personal experience?

Have you used both and had a bad experience with the Feisol? Have you tried a Feisol in a store? Used a friends?

Would you be making the same statement if the Feisol was 600 bucks instead of 300?

Just curious where you are coming from.

[tvphotog]

I'm curious what your comment is based on? Conjecture? Personal experience?

Have you used both and had a bad experience with the Feisol? Have you tried a Feisol in a store? Used a friends?

Would you be making the same statement if the Feisol was 600 bucks instead of 300?

Just curious where you are coming from.

My point is there must be manufacturing compromises to reduce price on an item by half. Based in similar experiences in my life, I think the price difference reflects different criteria for QC. It's Chevy vs Mercedes, as I said.

I have the Gitzo 1541t, and am impressed with its patented bells and whistles over the knockoffs...and its lifetime warranty. The last doesn't mean anything to someone who pulls out the sticks three times a year, but it does to someone such as I who uses it all the time.

I feel those innovations are what makes Gitzo a superior system. Also, there are no brick and mortar stores, none, that handle the Feisol. That says something to me about its quality.

Whether I've handled a Feisol is not germane. Handling or using a new Feisol and a new Gitzo is not the appropriate comparison. Both will be glitzy, and will look great and move smoothly. The correct comparison is comparing a well-used four-year-old Feisol (one year after its warranty runs out) and comparing it to a well-used four-year-old Gitzo.

The Feisol at $600 is an inappropriate hypothetical comparison. If you want to make that comparison, start with the new RRS cf tripod at $925 which is a third more expensive than the similar Gitzo. I don't know that it's better than the Gitzo, but it comes from a highly reputable company with superb products in other lines. I've paid good money for their excellent parts. Therefore, it may be that there are advances with the tripod that make it worth the extra money. Usage will tell.

Again, it's my opinion. If I were to buy a car, it'd be a Mercedes. Between the two tripods, I chose a Gitzo.

[cicopo]

As an auto mechanic who has been in the trade over 40 years My opinion of my Feisol products is that they meet my needs at a price I felt was fair or even a bit cheaper than fair. I do not however use my tripod all that often but when I have it's done just fine, no slop, & it's rigid enough that even when using a 1 series body & 100-400 lens I can't see any evidence of vibrations caused by the mirror flipping up / down.
Based on the current listings & spec's on Feisol's site I'd say that the difference between my base model (3402) and a Tournament model is the quality of the pieces the 3 legs attach to and the pieces placed on the legs for that attachment. I believe mine is made from cast parts while the Tounament looks to be made from parts machined from a billet. That's just a guess, but that's what it looks like re the different quality ratings. The legs are the same diameters so there's not much chance 1 set of legs is stronger than the other unless they are of thicker material, which I'm sure would be in the advertising.
As for a brick & mortar store it looks like they are looking for a few around the world according to their site, and in the US there is a distributor named "Really Big Cameras" which must have some kind of building to operate out of.

[justrussfm]

Not everyone is a pro photographer, but buying a tripod is an investment. With Feisol, you will get one third to one half the metallurgy, stability and longevity of a Gitzo or Manfrotto cf tripod.

If you don't think you will use the tripod much, I understand your point, or if you're testing the hobby, as well. If you use the sticks alot, then in three years, the length of the Feisol warranty, you will have to buy another. A Gitzo is warranted for life.

Perhaps that fact is built into the price of a Gitzo, but the price works out to be the same...one Gitzo or two or three Feisols over ten years.

That is only MHO. It's why people buy three Chevy's or one Mercedes over a decade or so.

This is nonsense.

You'll get "one third to one half the metallurgy, stability, and longevity"... huh?

That's quite a claim. I didn't know you've measured stability, or have looked into the "metallurgy" of both products.

And saying something like "getting one third the metallurgy" doesn't even make sense... I wouldn't put much stock in this opinion. Sounds like you're using fancy words-- incorrectly-- to strengthen a baseless statement.

That said, if you can show me empirical data, with a reliable sample size, on longevity, stability, and whatever you meant by "metallurgy"-- than that info would be highly valuable to all of us.

[Mr.Black82]

Gitzo produces in Italy, and Feisol in Taiwan maybe this is also a factor in prizes.

[justrussfm]

Gitzo produces in Italy, and Feisol in Taiwan maybe this is also a factor in prizes.

Labor costs, and other costs of doing business are often drastically different between countries-- a good point.

And of course, nobody is disputing that Gitzo makes a fantastic (though by no means perfect or without fault) product.

[heatherwb]

Thanks for all the great info! :)

Just to give you a little more info on my gear and how I use my tripod...
My gear list (camera and lenses) is in my sig. Currently, the heaviest combo is the 40D with the 70-200/4IS, so the tripod needs to be able to solidly support that, plus give me a little wiggle room for whenever I upgrade to a heavier FF body. As for a tripod head, I currently have a Kirk BH-3 that I'm happy with. While I've had a tripod for a while, it's been this year that I've finally learned how to use it properly and how beneficial it really is to my nature photography. As a result, I want to carry it everywhere when I'm in the great outdoors, but I don't want it to weigh me down like my 190XPROB does. I've also found that having a center column gets in the way of me being able to get it down for low-level macro shots. In short, I'd like to use my tripod even more. :)

Back in June, I had the opportunity to pay a visit to a camera store (not local to me) that carries Gitzo tripods to see what the big deal was with them. I took my then current heaviest setup--a Pentax K20D + Sigma 17-70 + my ballhead with me so I could actually mount all of it onto the various tripods to see how stable they really were. While they were out of the 1541 Travelers, they let me try out a standard 1541. Even though the sales guy assured me that it would hold everything up just fine, it still seemed a bit wobbly when fully extended and given a shake test by me. They gave me a 2541 to try out and I fell in love. If I had had $650 to blow on a tripod that day, I would've most likely walked out of there with that tripod. For a 4-section tripod, it was STABLE. Collapsed, it measures a little bit longer than I would like, but other than that, it was an awesome tripod. :D

While the prospect of never ever needing to buy another tripod again is appealing to me, I still question the idea of spending that much money on a Gitzo when I can have the Feisol for about half the price. Christmas is coming and I'll most likely get enough money to either buy a whole Feisol tripod or finance half the price of the Gitzo 2541. I'll most likely wait to make my final decision at that point.

Heather :)

[oak3x]

I own the FEISOL CT-3442 Tripod, and I am extremely pleased with it. Use in conjunction with my Markins Ball Head.

The Feisol is lightweight carbon fiber, compact and extremely sturdy. I would not hesitate to purchase another

[SCOTTinNJ]

I own the FEISOL CT-3442 Tripod, and I am extremely pleased with it. Use in conjunction with my Markins Ball Head.

The Feisol is lightweight carbon fiber, compact and extremely sturdy. I would not hesitate to purchase another

Which Markins do you use with the 3442?

[hollis_f]

And saying something like "getting one third the metallurgy" doesn't even make sense... I wouldn't put much stock in this opinion. Sounds like you're using fancy words-- incorrectly-- to strengthen a baseless statement.

Probably to justify spending three times as much cash for something that's 10% better.

[tvphotog]

Probably to justify spending three times as much cash for something that's 10% better.

With all due respect, just compare the warranties, they are what even the manufacturers admit are the lifetime of the products. I think the Gitzo is in an entirely different catagory. Chevy vs Mercedes.

[Richard in Idaho]

My point is there must be manufacturing compromises to reduce price on an item by half. Based in similar experiences in my life, I think the price difference reflects different criteria for QC. It's Chevy vs Mercedes, as I said.

Yes the Mercedes is the better car. But!!, dollar for dollar the Chevy is a far better buy. In fast the Corvette is the best "value" in sport cars period.
If you have a use for the Gitzo and can afford it then by all means buy one. If not there are other good tripods.

[argyle]

Thanks for all the great info! :)

Just to give you a little more info on my gear and how I use my tripod...
My gear list (camera and lenses) is in my sig. Currently, the heaviest combo is the 40D with the 70-200/4IS, so the tripod needs to be able to solidly support that, plus give me a little wiggle room for whenever I upgrade to a heavier FF body. As for a tripod head, I currently have a Kirk BH-3 that I'm happy with. While I've had a tripod for a while, it's been this year that I've finally learned how to use it properly and how beneficial it really is to my nature photography. As a result, I want to carry it everywhere when I'm in the great outdoors, but I don't want it to weigh me down like my 190XPROB does. I've also found that having a center column gets in the way of me being able to get it down for low-level macro shots. In short, I'd like to use my tripod even more. :)

Back in June, I had the opportunity to pay a visit to a camera store (not local to me) that carries Gitzo tripods to see what the big deal was with them. I took my then current heaviest setup--a Pentax K20D + Sigma 17-70 + my ballhead with me so I could actually mount all of it onto the various tripods to see how stable they really were. While they were out of the 1541 Travelers, they let me try out a standard 1541. Even though the sales guy assured me that it would hold everything up just fine, it still seemed a bit wobbly when fully extended and given a shake test by me. They gave me a 2541 to try out and I fell in love. If I had had $650 to blow on a tripod that day, I would've most likely walked out of there with that tripod. For a 4-section tripod, it was STABLE. Collapsed, it measures a little bit longer than I would like, but other than that, it was an awesome tripod. :D

While the prospect of never ever needing to buy another tripod again is appealing to me, I still question the idea of spending that much money on a Gitzo when I can have the Feisol for about half the price. Christmas is coming and I'll most likely get enough money to either buy a whole Feisol tripod or finance half the price of the Gitzo 2541. I'll most likely wait to make my final decision at that point.

Heather :)

I can vouch for this model (I use the 2540, predecessor to the 2541). Very stable in all conditions, and it will definitely work for your future growth/gear additions. Mine easily supports my 5D2/100-400L (even with an extender) without any problems. My guess is that Gitzo's focal length ratings are on the conservative side. I've used the 2540 in knee-deep rushing water, in surf off the coast of Hawaii (30-second exposures), and in high winds without seeing any ill effects in my images. This will be the last tripod that you'll need to buy for a long, long time. I have a Markins M10 ballhead and RRS lever clamp mounted...all told, it weighs in at about 4 pounds total...not too bad. Its not a light as a Traveler-style tripod, but its also not as wobbly as a Traveler would be in the conditions in which I shoot. Yeah, the 2541 is somewhat expensive, but it is a proven performer in adverse conditions (skipping Starbucks for about 30 days would pretty much pay for the 2541 and a quality ballhead). :D

There's more to selecting a tripod than looking at the weight rating. The ability to resist torque is also an issue, however most people overlook it or don't think of it. When you start to use longer lenses, you're adding more surface area for breezes and winds to act upon. As the lens get longer, the torque value increases accordingly. Gitzo's have been tested for this, which is where their focal length ratings come into play. The G-locks are also a big bonus.

But the Gitzo is not immune to problems. Like anything else, you'll need to pay it a little attention before taking it out into the field (and this goes for any tripod). Give it a once-over, make sure all the screws are good and tight, etc. And pack a small tool kit to keep in your bag (hex wrench for tripod and ballhead, etc). Continuously opening/closing the legs of any tripod will cause them to loosen a bit...its good to have the ability in the field to make adjustments when necessary.

[B Rad]

I feel like a more appropriate automobile analogy for the Gitzo/Feisol argument would be Mercedes vs. Audi. Audi's are equal, and arguably superior in many aspects, when compared to a Mercedes, only for a lesser price. Like Audi, Feisol products are equal in many ways to Gitzo without charging the additional premium in price.

I personally use several of Feisol's products(3442 Tourn. Class, 50D, 1471mono) and could not be happier with their performance.

[RPCrowe]

My point is there must be manufacturing compromises to reduce price on an item by half. Based in similar experiences in my life, I think the price difference reflects different criteria for QC. It's Chevy vs Mercedes, as I said.

I am not sure that I totally agree with your rationale. My top-line Honda beats both the Chevy and the Mercedes in reliability and costs a LOT LESS than the Mercedes.

[static808]

With all due respect, just compare the warranties, they are what even the manufacturers admit are the lifetime of the products. I think the Gitzo is in an entirely different catagory. Chevy vs Mercedes.
canon lenses have a 1 year warranty, even the vaunted "L" series. nikon lenses have 5 years, even their 18-55 $150 kit lens. everyone knows where this argument is going, so im not going to state the obvious.

by this logic, i also guess that a kia is better than your mercedes, since its warranty is over double the time/distance.

and markins ballheads only have 3 years, RRS has 5 years. i guess the RRS ballheads are 67% better, since their warranty is 67% longer...

[PicSniper]

Apparently, tvphotog is of the belief that if a product happens to be less expensive than the comparably well-known brand, it must be an inferior product, PERIOD. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that you can spend less on an item and be satisfied with it. Also, if you happen to be the unfortunate consumer that purchases this less expensive, inferior product, you are now labeled as one of P.T. Barnum's "suckers" who are born every minute. Since there was no way to offer a reasonable and logical explanation to tvphotog that there is a remote possibility that there are some well-built and reasonably priced products out there to be had, I gave up trying to offer my opinion. As a result, I am now a sucker who is the proud owner of a well-built, off-brand, very reasonably priced carbon fiber tripod and monopod.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=787753&page=3

[tvphotog]

Apparently, tvphotog is of the belief that if a product happens to be less expensive than the comparably well-known brand, it must be an inferior product, PERIOD. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that you can spend less on an item and be satisfied with it. Also, if you happen to be the unfortunate consumer that purchases this less expensive, inferior product, you are now labeled as one of P.T. Barnum's "suckers" who are born every minute. Since there was no way to offer a reasonable and logical explanation to tvphotog that there is a remote possibility that there are some well-built and reasonably priced products out there to be had, I gave up trying to offer my opinion. As a result, I am now a sucker who is the proud owner of a well-built, off-brand, very reasonably priced carbon fiber tripod and monopod.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=787753&page=3

Not what I meant. I think the reference to PT Barnum and suckers applies, as I've mentioned before, to those who use price as the only guide to buying. If there were other factors involved in your decision, then you made an informed choice, and I hope you enjoy the tripod. Use it in the best of health.

That said, I still believe, especially with Asian made knockoffs floodling the market, that you get what you pay for.

[jdang307]

With all due respect, just compare the warranties, they are what even the manufacturers admit are the lifetime of the products. I think the Gitzo is in an entirely different catagory. Chevy vs Mercedes.
Before their cars were decent Hyundais had 10 year warranties because they were so crappy.

I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying.

[Garry Gibson]

Going back to the OP's original question Tournament Class or not.
I would say definitely the Tournament Class. Below is a picture of my
3442T beside my Gitzo 1325.

I have used the Feisol as a backpacking tripod with a Mark1 DSII and a 70-200
and had good results. But as you can see it is very small, easy to carry but
maybe not so good depending on your load or wind conditions.

I think anything smaller than this in leg diameter, which is the main
difference between the tournament class and the standard Feisol, would be a waste
of money in the long run. I would not hesitate to buy the Feisol but
again think about what you are using it for.

I use my Gitzo mostly for my 500L and Sidekick and it is a better choice
for that use.

good luck in your decision.

GG