Need help getting started setting up a studio...

[belsokar]

So I've been reading this forum, as well as other posts/blogs/etc...and I think I'm just more confused now...

My goal is to create a basic studio in my home...a starter-studio if you will...Like many people, I want to start CHEAP...Mainly I don't know if I want to add this to my list of services, or keep it a hobby...I don't mind making stuff if it saves me alot of money, I don't mind spending some money to make my life easier however...I do wedding photography, and would like to start doing some indoor portrait photography as well...my assumption is that I will try to maximize what I can do with cheap gear, and slowly work towards better gear eventually...If I can set everything up I need for a couple hundred bucks, that would be great...but I'm realistic, and want something that is reasonable for taking some good shots...so I'm willing to spec a couple hundred bucks more if it makes all the difference...

My current gear:

- 5DmkII
- 580exII flash (plan to buy a second 430exII soon)
- Assortment of lenses.

Things I know I need, but am not sure what direction to go in:

1. Some kind of cheap starter 1-3 light kit. I would prefer a kit that pretty much gives me everything I need to begin if possible. This one is tough for me, because I wouldn't mind getting a continuous light kit because they seem cheaper, and because I like shooting little short film projects...(although my primary focus is photography first) It seems strobe kits are the way to go however, but I'm not sure I can get a cheap starter kits with modeling lights, plus all the other gear I would need. (wireless transmitter, backdrops, etc?) I'm not averse to starting with a single light kit and reflector solution either.

2. Backdrops...This one isn't too hard, I can make my own probably at a relatively cheap price

3. Other necessary accessories? Transmitters? anything else?

It would be great if I could find a nice write-up somewhere about setting up a studio, but everything google finds for me seems to cover only small bits and pieces of info, without any real recommendations.

Thanks in advance!

[george m w]

Belsokar,
Since you already have the 580, why not just use it ? A stand for it, maybe an umbrella, a cord to connect it to the camera, and a reflector and you're good to go for a start. You mentioned making your own backdrops, so you have that covered. Starting out this way would give you a pretty good idea if you like doing it, and whether you feel there is money to be made at it in your location and circumstance. You ought to be able to set up this way for about $100.

[Steve Wintrow]

there is a good post about using a single flash on this site, just sort for it.

the idea of starting with a stand and using your 580EXII is a good one. you can get an umbrella to start and play for a while. this will give you a better idea on how to expand your lighting. go to the local hoby lobby store or office supply or art store and get some white boards, silver and gold boards also. these will multiply your flash when used as reflectors. you may also want to consider different size facial mirrors as reflectors also. this can be done for a minimal cost and you can get a lot of bang for your buck.

you will also need a sync cord for your 580 to your camera.

you may want to consider a light meter for this venture also. it will make your exposures a lot easier than trial and error.

good luck and have fun trying new things.

[belsokar]

there is a good post about using a single flash on this site, just sort for it.

the idea of starting with a stand and using your 580EXII is a good one. you can get an umbrella to start and play for a while. this will give you a better idea on how to expand your lighting. go to the local hoby lobby store or office supply or art store and get some white boards, silver and gold boards also. these will multiply your flash when used as reflectors. you may also want to consider different size facial mirrors as reflectors also. this can be done for a minimal cost and you can get a lot of bang for your buck.

you will also need a sync cord for your 580 to your camera.

you may want to consider a light meter for this venture also. it will make your exposures a lot easier than trial and error.

good luck and have fun trying new things.

What about modeling lights? would it be easy to add modeling lights to a setup like this? Or is that not that necessary when starting out as long as I practice with my setup?

Any recommendations on umbrellas? or are they all fairly the same in terms of quality? I've also seen comments about shoot through and bounce, are umbrellas capable of both? or do I buy one or the other? and which is preferred for someone in my position starting out?

Thanks for the feedback!

[Damian75]

If you are going to be using this stuff in a small studio setup then strobes are what you want speedlights are great for portability but lack the modeling light and just aren't built for the kind of high constant shot count that strobes are and constant lights are hot and not very comfortable for the models. I would suggest looking at the Calumet Genisis lights http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&query=genesis%20%20light%20kit they offer a great value and use the Elinchrom mounts so you can grow with the system you can get a two light kit with stands and umbrellas for less than the cost of a 580ex. If you do a search for Genisis in this forum you will find many happy owners.

[george m w]

OP said:

I want to start CHEAP...Mainly I don't know if I want to add this to my list of services, or keep it a hobby....

....which is why I suggested starting with what he has ( 580 speedlite ) and some inexpensive support items. Steve makes a great suggestion that he you can get white and other colored foamcore at the hobby supply store, and the other things he mentioned like mirrors are great too. The mark of a real pro is being able to make do with what you've got. You can buy a stand like this;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/262758-REG/Impact_LS_6B_Light_Stand_Black_.html

...for $20

....and an umbrella like this for $10 :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/362385-STUD/Impact_S3233_White_Translucent_Umbrella_33_.html/mode/edu

...probably want a mount:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/42160-REG/Photoflex_AC_BSWCP_Multiclamp_with_Shoe_Mount.html/mode/edu

....and an off camera cord ( from one of POTN's most valued contributors ) like this for less that $50:

http://flashzebra.com/products/0123/index.shtml

A piece of foamcore is $5 or so. I'll bet you'll be surprised what photos you can come up with this set up. Depends on how creative you are. The operative word I saw in the original post was CHEAP. There you go....that's usually a pretty good way to start out....cheap....see if you really want to pursue it. Because from there, the cost can essentially go as high as you will allow it to.

[Damian75]

I was not trying to knock your suggestion just providing a different viewpoint the op said he was looking for a 1-3 light kit and for someone just starting with studio style lighting having a modeling light is a huge plus in learning to shape and control light it is much easier to use speedlights when you already have experience with lighting also I don't know what the op's definition of cheap is Elinchroms are cheap price wise compared to broncolor. He was getting good advice on the speedlight direction I was just offering another point of view.

[george m w]

Damien75,
Good points, all. I didn't mean to come off sounding like I thought your suggestion was not good. And your point that modeling lights are helpful is certainly good advice. I use the modeling lights in my AlienBees set to "track" all the time, and find they are a quick and effective way of getting a visual on where the shadows are going to be.
For me, I felt that the "basic" kit started with a couple of Bees, some reflectors, umbrellas, stands and a sekonic light meter. I built from there as I began to get a feel for what I wanted to do.
I'm afraid the OP is kind of caught in that vast middle ground there with his stated budget of $200 to $400. It's "almost enough" to start really "doing it right"....or looked at another way, it's "plenty, if you just want to keep it basic on and the cheap". It really depends on whether a person is willing/able to spend the money, and if you are really trying to make money at this. It's all a hobby for me, so I don't have to justify costs to an accountant when I buy.....so I tend to go overboard. When making suggestions on spending other folks money....I try no to go overboard !! lol

[belsokar]

OP said:



....which is why I suggested starting with what he has ( 580 speedlite ) and some inexpensive support items. Steve makes a great suggestion that he you can get white and other colored foamcore at the hobby supply store, and the other things he mentioned like mirrors are great too. The mark of a real pro is being able to make do with what you've got. You can buy a stand like this;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/262758-REG/Impact_LS_6B_Light_Stand_Black_.html

...for $20

....and an umbrella like this for $10 :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/362385-STUD/Impact_S3233_White_Translucent_Umbrella_33_.html/mode/edu

...probably want a mount:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/42160-REG/Photoflex_AC_BSWCP_Multiclamp_with_Shoe_Mount.html/mode/edu

....and an off camera cord ( from one of POTN's most valued contributors ) like this for less that $50:

http://flashzebra.com/products/0123/index.shtml

A piece of foamcore is $5 or so. I'll bet you'll be surprised what photos you can come up with this set up. Depends on how creative you are. The operative word I saw in the original post was CHEAP. There you go....that's usually a pretty good way to start out....cheap....see if you really want to pursue it. Because from there, the cost can essentially go as high as you will allow it to.

This definitely seems like an affordable route, and I really appreciate the detail of your feedback...this seems like a logical short term solution...and one I will likely follow.

[belsokar]

I was not trying to knock your suggestion just providing a different viewpoint the op said he was looking for a 1-3 light kit and for someone just starting with studio style lighting having a modeling light is a huge plus in learning to shape and control light it is much easier to use speedlights when you already have experience with lighting also I don't know what the op's definition of cheap is Elinchroms are cheap price wise compared to broncolor. He was getting good advice on the speedlight direction I was just offering another point of view.

I appreciate your feedback on this...and "CHEAP" is definitely a route I would like to go in the short term...which means sticking closer to $200...or even less if possible...I feel like your direction might stretch me a bit much at first,...and while I usually don't mind spending money on good gear (i.e. "L" lenses and FF camera),...this is one aspect of photography I'm shaky at, so it might be nice to "build" my way up into more professional gear...

[belsokar]

Damien75,
Good points, all. I didn't mean to come off sounding like I thought your suggestion was not good. And your point that modeling lights are helpful is certainly good advice. I use the modeling lights in my AlienBees set to "track" all the time, and find they are a quick and effective way of getting a visual on where the shadows are going to be.
For me, I felt that the "basic" kit started with a couple of Bees, some reflectors, umbrellas, stands and a sekonic light meter. I built from there as I began to get a feel for what I wanted to do.
I'm afraid the OP is kind of caught in that vast middle ground there with his stated budget of $200 to $400. It's "almost enough" to start really "doing it right"....or looked at another way, it's "plenty, if you just want to keep it basic on and the cheap". It really depends on whether a person is willing/able to spend the money, and if you are really trying to make money at this. It's all a hobby for me, so I don't have to justify costs to an accountant when I buy.....so I tend to go overboard. When making suggestions on spending other folks money....I try no to go overboard !! lol

I definitely plan on spending the time with any setup to get it right...and hopefully that will help me learn exactly how I want to expand my lighting setup, and make the right decisions moving forward...

[belsokar]

If you are going to be using this stuff in a small studio setup then strobes are what you want speedlights are great for portability but lack the modeling light and just aren't built for the kind of high constant shot count that strobes are and constant lights are hot and not very comfortable for the models. I would suggest looking at the Calumet Genisis lights http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&query=genesis%20%20light%20kit they offer a great value and use the Elinchrom mounts so you can grow with the system you can get a two light kit with stands and umbrellas for less than the cost of a 580ex. If you do a search for Genisis in this forum you will find many happy owners.

Quick question, if I were interested in going this route, what else would I need...does this kit contain everything needed to get started? Would 2x200 be sufficient?

[Damian75]

Quick question, if I were interested in going this route, what else would I need...does this kit contain everything needed to get started? Would 2x200 be sufficient?

To get started it has everything you need the stands the umbrellas that can be reflective or shoot through and the sync cables. You may want to add wireless triggers down the line but in a small studio they are not a necessity. I would as was previously suggested pick up some white foam core to use as reflectors. In a small studio 200ws strobes should be plenty if you wanted to overpower the mid day sun you would need more power. The nice thing with the Genesis strobes is they use the Elinchrom mount so as you grow and add more modifiers and lights you have a system that will grow with you and you wont need to ditch what you have to move forward. Check out this vid http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/06/02/video-episode-13-beautiful-portraits-with-just-one-light/ happens to be using the 200 Genesis

[belsokar]

To get started it has everything you need the stands the umbrellas that can be reflective or shoot through and the sync cables. You may want to add wireless triggers down the line but in a small studio they are not a necessity. I would as was previously suggested pick up some white foam core to use as reflectors. In a small studio 200ws strobes should be plenty if you wanted to overpower the mid day sun you would need more power. The nice thing with the Genesis strobes is they use the Elinchrom mount so as you grow and add more modifiers and lights you have a system that will grow with you and you wont need to ditch what you have to move forward. Check out this vid http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/06/02/video-episode-13-beautiful-portraits-with-just-one-light/ happens to be using the 200 Genesis

So going back and forth on this...would it be terrible to maybe start with a single 200 Genesis setup...and then mix with a speedlite in the short term if I wanted a 2 light setup? I realize I can do a single light setup and reflector...but also wondering if I was mixing them, if that would lead to some difficulty? or would it just be a matter of trial and error and getting used to the setup?

My studio right now would be an extremely high ceiling, but fairly small room, with very controlled lighting...I don't have to worry about overpowering sun as I can the room pretty dark any time of day...so based on what you're saying, it seems the 200 should be fine...

thanks again for all the feedback...I'm hoping to order in the next week and start practicing!

[belsokar]

So going back and forth on this...would it be terrible to maybe start with a single 200 Genesis setup...and then mix with a speedlite in the short term if I wanted a 2 light setup? I realize I can do a single light setup and reflector...but also wondering if I was mixing them, if that would lead to some difficulty? or would it just be a matter of trial and error and getting used to the setup?

My studio right now would be an extremely high ceiling, but fairly small room, with very controlled lighting...I don't have to worry about overpowering sun as I can the room pretty dark any time of day...so based on what you're saying, it seems the 200 should be fine...

thanks again for all the feedback...I'm hoping to order in the next week and start practicing!

Just to follow-up my own question, would I be able to setup two sync cables to separate both light systems? Or how would I achieve this? Just wondering if it's technically feasible or not...

[Damian75]

You could mix in your 580 without too much trouble depending on where you are putting the 580 you could run the sync cord to it and trigger the Genesis with it's built in optical slave or and probably preferred you could get an optical trigger for the 580 http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0210/ and have it triggered by the main Genesis just keep in mind that the Genesis will recycle considerably faster and if you start shooting allot that it is allot for wear on the 580 just watch of overheating. As far as mounting and triggering you speedlight you might want to check out strobist.com for gear recommendations.

[belsokar]

You could mix in your 580 without too much trouble depending on where you are putting the 580 you could run the sync cord to it and trigger the Genesis with it's built in optical slave or and probably preferred you could get an optical trigger for the 580 http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0210/ and have it triggered by the main Genesis just keep in mind that the Genesis will recycle considerably faster and if you start shooting allot that it is allot for wear on the 580 just watch of overheating. As far as mounting and triggering you speedlight you might want to check out strobist.com for gear recommendations.

Thanks for the tip! As is already obvious, I'm new to alot of this lighting stuff...so not quite sure how this trigger would work...assuming I have the genesis hooked up via sync cord to my camera (whatever comes with the kit)...where does this optical trigger attach? To the 580 itself? Would it matter if the 580 is on it's own light stand opposite the genesis? (or somewhere else in the room if I'm going for certain lighting effects) Unfortunately, the description on the site doesn't give away all that much...

Thanks again for all the great feedback! I'm now leaning towards a single genesis (for now), and use the 580 as well, and then upgrade as I need in the future...

[Damian75]

There are several different kinds some have a hotshoe mount on them that the flash just slides in to there are some with short sync cords that connect to the PC port on the flash. In studio optical triggers work fine however if you go on location or use at a wedding or event they are no good as they will be triggered by any flash and as I am sure you know from doing weddings there is always some relative following you around with there little P&S this is were wireless triggers are of great use if you do go with the Genesis lights I would recommend looking at the Elinchrom Skyport triggers this way if you add additional strobes down the line from Elinchrom (the Elinchrom mount is what the Genesis uses) you will be in a better position to take advantage of some of the other features ie. the BXri and RX series will let you adjust power from the wireless remote.

[Bosman]

First let me say, off camera flash is all new to me.
So I have a simple question.

Why can't I use a cord like this;

http://flashzebra.com/products/0123/index.shtml

connect my 420EX to stand with umbrella and connected to my Rebel XT, position it where I want, maybe add a reflector. Am I missing something?

Also, a second question that is going to sound really dumb.....sorry in advance....

If you have a strobe on a stand and the strobe is turned on providing the subject with the light you want for the shot, why does it have to "flash" when you take the pic?

TIA

Joe

[RPCrowe]

These days, you can get studio type flash units at very reasonable prices.

IMO, the studio flash is head and shoulders above trying to convert a hotshoe flash of any type into a Strobist type pseudo studio unit!

The advantages of a true studio strobe over a Strobist jury-rig are multiple.

Yes the Canon strobes are relatively tiny and light weight but, they are inefficient as studio substitutes because:

1. They have no modeling lights. Sure, these strobes can fire multiple bursts and act as a lame substitute for a modeling light but, this mode is no substitute for the real thing. IMO, using modeling lights is a real plus for good photography and is just about essential for learning lighting. To steal a computer phrase: "What you see is what you get!"

2. A/C current provides a constant recharge time and the recharge is not dependent upon puny AA batteries.

3. The studio strobe is built to use light modifiers and will do so efficiently. The hotshoe flashes are very inefficient in this regard, even with the adapters. A hotshoe flash on an adapter bracket, shooting into an umbrella will not give even lighting because the most adapters place the flash too high. Using a soft box to soften the specular light which has been already concentrated by the hotshoe reflector is like boiling ice cubes to make tea. You CAN do it but it is darned efficient.

4. Studio strobes can use radio controlled sync systems but, also have built in optical slaves. and can be used with cheap and efficient infrared triggers.

5. Studio strobes are far more powerful than any hotshoe strobes

6. You can get a good setup of studio strobes cheaper than the same number of Canon strobes and you can often pick up used studio strobes at an even far cheaper price. I got a set of three really portable A/C powered Multiblitz strobes with barn-doors, snoot, honeycomb grib and filter holder with a set of four colored glass filters; all in a suitcase style carrying case for $200 plus a few bucks shipping.

NO! You cannot use studio strobes in the TTL or ETTL mode but, using strobes in automatic modes is not at all essential and IMO counter-productive to learning lighting.

[belsokar]

just saw Calumet has a sale on all these light sets, very good deals, I might just go straight for the 2 light kit now!