5D MKII(and 7D I'm guessing) won't be able to replace my camcorder.

[westernminnguy]

5DMKII can't replace a good camcorder - no surprise, I'm sure, to most folks who use both.

After quite a bit of video use on my 5DII, I've come to the conclusion that sound recording on the 5DII is at best poor to average.

I have two mikes I can use with my 5DMKII. The Sennheiser MKE400 and Rode NTG2. The MKE400(I think that's what it's called) is a nice little mike for the 5DII and does a surprisingly good job.

However, the automatic sound control on my 5DMKII creates too much noise in the dead zones to be used for anything but sound recording that doesn't need to be very good.

If I want good sound on a video recording, I still use my XH A1 and the NT2...which produces a very good sound....even if the XH A1 volume is set to auto.

I understand that to get a good sound out of the 5DII, you need to use a separate board with preamps, and I have one of those, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a mobile camcorder for me since much of what I do is either (1) run and gun or (2) record events where it's nice to have to only bring the camcorder and not set up a mobile studio.

The video on the 5DII rivals my XH A1 and is, in some cases, better. However, the 5DII, as is, will not be able to take the place of my XH A1 as I had hoped there was a chance it might. I had thought I might be able to sell my XH A1, doesn't look like that is going to happen.

I still love shooting video(sans audio) with my 5DII. Especially for wildlife...it's great.

I've also heard of Magic Lantern for the 5DII but I'm not sure I want to mess with a 3rd party software and I have visited with some folks who felt it had glitches...glitches that could mean a trip to Canon to fix.

I'm guessing the 7D audio is in the same league as the 5DII.

Just a few thoughts for the fun of it.

:)

[ChasWG]

I think it is also the same for video cameras that take stills. Good to great video, but average stills.

The whole idea of a still camera that can shoot video is very cool, but more work needs to be done on the audio side of the cameras. It's surprising to me that Canon did this so poorly, knowing that they produce quality video cameras like the X1 and others. Limited space maybe for real preamps.

People just don't understand how complicated sound reproduction really is. Often it is thought of a secondary part of a total video production. Even at the proffesional level. Case in point, the Red One video system. http://www.red.com/cameras When fully outfitted this camera can cost up to $100K, yet it still can not record broadcast acceptable audio. Even though it has 4 audio inputs. Every sound mixer out there who has work with this camera always uses an alternate record device. Thus treating the Red One like a true film camera. Of course fixes have been made to the Red One to make sound recording to the camera better, but still not up to the level of a much cheaper and more widely used Panisonic HDX900 as one example. Kind of crazy huh?

I say, don't give up hope, maybe fixes are in the works. Maybe the 5DIII will be better! ;) That doesn't help, does it?

[westernminnguy]

Chas,

Good reply...good points.

Sound is very important when shooting events of any kind. And that is why my 5DMKII will be relegated to backup at event shooting.

My XH A1 actually shoots a half decent 2 meg still picture....but I would not use the XH A1 for that purpose as the camera is too heavy and bulky for that.

The day may come when we have an all in one camera, like you said, in a 5DMKIII or whatever. Whatever that camera is, until it has XLR inputs and good sound control, it won't be of much use for the type of events I shoot.

:)

[FlyingPhotog]

This is why people record "Room Tone."

[westernminnguy]

This is why people record "Room Tone."

Good thought but 'hiss' is a bit different than room tone.

Back about 20 years ago(yea, I'm an old dude :D), when I first started recording music with a tape multi-track machine, we had all kinds of hiss in the dead spots.

We used noise gates, compressors, editing and you name it, to get rid of that sound. Unfortunately, hiss is hard to get rid of...better not to have it in the first place.

The newer digital recording devices, with better pre-amps, eliminate most of the noise in the dead spots. We have a Roland VS2480 that is dead quiet in the dead zones and that is a 10+ year old machine.

Non hiss recording is very achieveable and has been for 10-15 years. My XH A1 is digital tape and records with very little(next to zero)hiss in the dead spots.

I'm sure Canon hasn't quite figured out yet whether they want to make an all in one camera, considering their pro-camcorder line.

I think that the fact that the 5DMKII(video, not the audio) was taken so seriously by pro videographers took Canon by surprise and they aren't sure yet how much to invest in a still camera that shoots great video.

That appears on the obvious side to me when the 7D came out with the same, from what I read, 'auto' problematic volume control that the 5DMKII has.

Some day there will be an all in one camera from Canon...just not yet.

:)

[Trey T]

not to burst your bubble w/ your nice xha1 but recording on tape is outdated. workflow sux, thats why many ppl use HDD capturing. image quality of 5dII is significantly much better xha1. you should venture w/ your 5DII more to know it's capability and whatnot.

magic lantern is not a permanent firmware. it loads when you turn it on and erased when it is off. glitches? there are none, more or less, but you gotta venture into that also.

the main reason why DSLR is so popular is because it can achieve so well in low-light, that is the bottom line. there are no other hand-held camera equipment that can do it in this world.

[westernminnguy]

not to burst your bubble w/ your nice xha1 but recording on tape is outdated. workflow sux, thats why many ppl use HDD capturing. image quality of 5dII is significantly much better xha1. you should venture w/ your 5DII more to know it's capability and whatnot.

magic lantern is not a permanent firmware. it loads when you turn it on and erased when it is off. glitches? there are none, more or less, but you gotta venture into that also.

the main reason why DSLR is so popular is because it can achieve so well in low-light, that is the bottom line. there are no other hand-held camera equipment that can do it in this world.

Tre,

Thanks for the reply. Your not bursting my bubble because I'm reporting what I know from owning and using both systems XH A1 and 5DMKII extensively. So my comments are from real experience...not conjecture.

Linear workflow is definitely slower but the interesting thing is that many manufacturers still make video cams that use DV tape. Why? Because you always have the backup and non-linear editing takes a ton of CPU horsepower as well as good editing programs. Plus, if you want to add on a digital recording unit to the XH A1 you can....doubt that I would.

Also, many folks I know, doing video for $$$ are still producing STD Def DVD's for their customers because many folks buying don't have Blu Ray burners and HD televisions...it's coming but not there yet.

Again, good to hear from you and yes, my bubble is still intact.

:D

[agphotography]

You may want to check this out if you don't know about it already. http://www.beachtek.com/dxa5d.html

I looked at that option, but I decided that I was going to record externally instead (since I'm new to video) I purchased a Zoom H4n which has been amazing! I know it's not an integrated solution, and doesn't work for everyone. But for me it's been working beautifully.

Definitely take a look at the Beachtek box though, It overrides the AGC of the 5DmkII

The other option is the Juicedlink CX231 - http://www.juicedlink.com/index_files/CX_camcorder_XLR_microphone_adapter_audio_mixers_C X231.htm

There's a few reviews floating around.

[westernminnguy]

Good stuff all.

For video, when I need good audio:

XH A1.

:)

[FlyingPhotog]

Good thought but 'hiss' is a bit different than room tone.

You use "Room Tone" to cover dead spots so you don't hear Hiss...

I guess this is a major "flaw" with dSLR Video Vs Professional gear .. You can't turn the AGC OFF.