Rant about NBA photography policy.

[nureality]

Well it sucks.

Every other major sports league in the USA is quite friendly to photogs and will allow you to bring in just about anything (within reason, fast superteles aren't allowed). But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

I went to the Suns vs. Heat game last night, and ended up ONLY being able to take my 7D + 7mm f/3.5 Fisheye to shoot with. Because my 17-55 f/2.8 IS was "too big", let alone the 70-200 f/4L IS. "Too Big"? I know, very scientific gauging of a lens. But the dummies they have working for them are issued a book with pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55 lens on it, which is "smaller" than my 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

I used to shoot NHL when I went to Panthers games, and would run into an overzealous guard from time to time, but simply asserting that you know the rules and limitations (and I did) and showing your stuff is acceptable would always get me thru. But the NBA (well the Heat in particular at least, but the guard ended up claiming the rules come down from the NBA) says the size of the lens has to be "small" not even thinking enough to limit it in length (which one of the guards thought was a limit of 4", but it isn't even that) and essentially block out everyone at the guard's discretion... this is just weak.

I spent a good 15 minutes explaining to the guy my 17-55 had the same reach as the 18-55 pictured and that 55mm isn't really gonna be enough reach anyways. But someone could bring in a superzoom with a 400-500mm zoom on it and shoot the nose hairs of Steve Nash.

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet. So I explained to him that the fan with the little superzoom I mentioned could get a shot some of the pro's in the room might not, how are you gonna stop him. I'm just trying to bring in a normal lens.

But, I didn't get thru to them. I ended up shooting some fun shots with the fisheye.

I lost my valid argument to a stupid league.
The Heat lost the game.

[/rant]

[jamesb84]

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet.

And there you have it.

To be honest, they should be banning everyone with a camera. However, with phone cameras being much better and with small P&S cameras being much smaller...unless you ban everyone with a phone and strip search the others for a P&S it's going to be difficult to police. So they will git rid of the problem as much as possible...by going for dSLR users.

I cant say i've ever bothered to take a camera along to a game (other than my phone) if i've been a paying customer.

Much better to sit back and enjoy the game.

[nureality]

I usually take a camera to a game to get some (ok usually a LOT) of momento shots. And I don't see the point investing in a quality P&S, especially after investing what I have in my SLRs.

That said, I often will grab tickets for the photo opportunities that I can capture with them. Like the tickets I had for the WS Game 1, or the 30yard Line, 2nd row seat I have for the Giants @ Minnesota game on Jan 3.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned both games are MUCH more important than some early season out-of-division/out-of-conference NBA game. Yet the other two leagues welcome the shooters. And NBA is a bunch of whiny bitches. Glad I didn't pay for the seat, but I was in the 4th row on the floor. I could have gotten some great shots of Steve Nash, Amari Stoudemayer, Grant Hill, D'Wade, etc... really shameful for $350 seats to go to waste like that in my eyes. NBA should know better.

[jamesb84]

I usually take a camera to a game to get some (ok usually a LOT) of momento shots. And I don't see the point investing in a quality P&S, especially after investing what I have in my SLRs.

That said, I often will grab tickets for the photo opportunities that I can capture with them. Like the tickets I had for the WS Game 1, or the 30yard Line, 2nd row seat I have for the Giants @ Minnesota game on Jan 3.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned both games are MUCH more important than some early season out-of-division/out-of-conference NBA game. Yet the other two leagues welcome the shooters. And NBA is a bunch of whiny bitches. Glad I didn't pay for the seat, but I was in the 4th row on the floor. I could have gotten some great shots of Steve Nash, Amari Stoudemayer, Grant Hill, D'Wade, etc... really shameful for $350 seats to go to waste like that in my eyes. NBA should know better.

The argument could be altered though...if you perhaps like shouting profane abuse at players and throwing spitwads at them, would you still say "shameful for those seats to go to waste". That would be indulging in a passion of yours which the arena/league/individuals around you would disapprove of...

See how photography could be seen in the same way? It may be something you like, but there are others who perhaps dont feel the same way.

[DC Fan]

But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

Depends on the location.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/20091002a0257.jpg

NBA game from early October. XTi and 70-300mm IS USM lens. Opened the equipment bag, security looked, no problem. Took the camera and lens to the upstairs seat. Took pictures and no one cared.

Likely, you encountered an arena policy as much as a NBA policy. Or, carrying the equipment in an old blue cooler bag instead of a large camera bag made a difference.

From the "pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55" note, the trick might be to use a smaller lens with a long reach, such as a Tamron 18-200mm lens, which is around the same size as a 18-55mm.


http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/12272008a1054.jpg

Same arena, same lighting, same XTi, closer location, from a Tamron 18-200mm. Not perfect, but effective.

Of course, another alternative is to find a place where no one cares about cameras. Often, smaller events mean easier attitudes. Small college and high school games may be more inviting, and offer better courtside locations that can be reached with the purchase of an inexpensive ticket and not a courtside pass.

[FlyingPhotog]

FWIW, you'll never get into an Arizona Diamondbacks game with an SLR either...

It's not just the NBA. It's every league * arena/stadium policies * the person you encounter at the door = The mood of the day.

BTW, Go Suns! ;)

[johnj2803]

American airlines arena has this policy and I think not all locations are strict. You are lucky to have been able to bring an slr. I had my XS with a 50mm 1.8 and they still wanted me to check in my bag. Considering the size of your cam I think you are even lucky to have your cam with you during the game.

[MJPhotos24]

It depends on the stadium/arena and your attack on the NBA as a league makes you just sound like a whiner. You might as well get used to photo policy restrictions because I do believe with technology getting better and more and more people trying to sell unlicensed photos from games they will get stricter. They're trying to protect their rights since it's their event and their rules, you're paying for the privilege to watch their game, so in short - nothing you can do, get over it.

[Todd Lambert]

When you fail, try try again.

Often leaving that gate, and trying another gate, will get you in. You gave up too easy, persistence is the key here. ;-)

[airfrogusmc]

Well it sucks.

Every other major sports league in the USA is quite friendly to photogs and will allow you to bring in just about anything (within reason, fast superteles aren't allowed). But the NBA has to be special, so they don't allow nearly anything.

I went to the Suns vs. Heat game last night, and ended up ONLY being able to take my 7D + 7mm f/3.5 Fisheye to shoot with. Because my 17-55 f/2.8 IS was "too big", let alone the 70-200 f/4L IS. "Too Big"? I know, very scientific gauging of a lens. But the dummies they have working for them are issued a book with pictures of allowable gear, and the picture they get is a Nikon D40 with a 18-55 lens on it, which is "smaller" than my 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

I used to shoot NHL when I went to Panthers games, and would run into an overzealous guard from time to time, but simply asserting that you know the rules and limitations (and I did) and showing your stuff is acceptable would always get me thru. But the NBA (well the Heat in particular at least, but the guard ended up claiming the rules come down from the NBA) says the size of the lens has to be "small" not even thinking enough to limit it in length (which one of the guards thought was a limit of 4", but it isn't even that) and essentially block out everyone at the guard's discretion... this is just weak.

I spent a good 15 minutes explaining to the guy my 17-55 had the same reach as the 18-55 pictured and that 55mm isn't really gonna be enough reach anyways. But someone could bring in a superzoom with a 400-500mm zoom on it and shoot the nose hairs of Steve Nash.

The guard said that the NBA doesn't want fans to be able to take a photo and sell it on the internet. So I explained to him that the fan with the little superzoom I mentioned could get a shot some of the pro's in the room might not, how are you gonna stop him. I'm just trying to bring in a normal lens.

But, I didn't get thru to them. I ended up shooting some fun shots with the fisheye.

I lost my valid argument to a stupid league.
The Heat lost the game.

[/rant]

The NFL is starting to crack down. No lenses longer than 6" and only one body if your not a pro with pass which are almost impossible to get. Don't be surprised if you start seeing more and more of this and I got a strange feeling this is coming from the news groups and the leagues themselves that hire the pros to shoot the games.

[Croasdail]

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

[airfrogusmc]

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

Don't bet on it. Like it or not its gonna keep getting tighter.

[FlyingPhotog]

I think arena/teams will eventually have to give up on this. The cameras on phones keep on getting better, and p/s keep marching on as well. There is not way they are going to ban both. And I don't get the selling shots from a p/s from the stands - who buys these? You can go to AP and buy real images, and most papers sell their images as well. Why would anyone by a #*)p shot from the stands over the internet? Just goofy. If fans are getting better shots than the pros.... shame on the pros.

A handful of pros can't compete with an arena full of cameras or even just the lower bowl of most facilities.

But, more isn't necessarilly better. The leagues want to uphold the quality of images being released as well as hold up their end of the CBA which grants the various players associations control over the use of players likenesses and the revenue (or potential revenue) derived from same.

As was said above. Their ball .. Their Rules

[Croasdail]

So you guys think they are going to start asking people to surrender their phones at the door too?

And maybe I am biased, but I haven't seen many shots from stands worth the electrons they are stored on. There are a few, but good enough for someone to sell? Really. I guess they must be selling, but that just proves some people will buy anything.

[Todd Lambert]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do, actually. The PGA does (obviously a different reason) but it shows that it can be done.

If you're an event owner/producer, wouldn't you rather have FULL control over your patrons? They can come in with nothing but paper and plastic, that's it. I know I would. It makes things easier all the way around for them. It sucks for the patron, but it's not like it's affected the draw at PGA events, everyone just complies.

[airfrogusmc]

So you guys think they are going to start asking people to surrender their phones at the door too?

And maybe I am biased, but I haven't seen many shots from stands worth the electrons they are stored on. There are a few, but good enough for someone to sell? Really. I guess they must be selling, but that just proves some people will buy anything.

Mark I think it totally sucks but its looking like the trend. Have you seen lately how many less photographers ore on the sidelines at NFL games? Passes are not easy to get. Its even gotten harder that it was a couple of years ago. I had a to shoot something for a client during half time at a Bears game this past weekend, I had a field pass and I still had a tough time with security. Its only going to get harder and harder.

[Croasdail]

I hear ya... It really is too bad. I was given some grief a couple of weeks ago by security at a NCAA game by the hired security crew... finally had to threaten calling the SID to sort it out, and they backed down. In my area, all three major venues have dramatically different rules.

[airfrogusmc]

I'm old enough to remember when they cracked down at concerts.

I had a good friend that actually started shooting concerts for local papers and one of the established older photographers started seeing him at all the concerts he was shooting and probably started seeing his work and somehow he must have known someone high up in security and my bud suddenly couldn't get in the venues even with a pass.

[Mike R]

Shoot HS sports. The players don't whine, they give 110% for the love of the game, not for the endorsements AND they will appreciate what you do for them.

[racing-guy]

Not all stadiums have tight rules. I went to four Blue Jays games this year at Rogers Centre in Toronto. I checked the rules on their web site before going - no video, bags of only a certain size, photography allowed but don't interfere with the other fans' enjoyment of the game. Seemed like sensible rules to me.

No issues with security at any of the games. They were more worried about bringing in glass or alcohol. In all games I sat by first base in row 1 or 4. The ushers all saw me with my 30D and Sigma 70-200. There were other fans with DSLRs sitting near me as well.

Then again, the Blue Jays are probably just glad that anyone came to their games this year. :)

[Mikeroscope]

I have taped a lens to my inner thigh as my friend had the body taped to his. Even after being patted down by security they are in a hurry and not trying to anger anyone so they don't go near your junk. Do the arena's your talking about have metal detectors? You could always try bribing a security guard. Those are my solutions if you are really pissed and wanna fight the system.

If they ban camera's at games then that cool effect of seeing all the flashes go off when the guy goes for a dunk would stop happening!

[MJPhotos24]

I have taped a lens to my inner thigh as my friend had the body taped to his. Even after being patted down by security they are in a hurry and not trying to anger anyone so they don't go near your junk. Do the arena's your talking about have metal detectors? You could always try bribing a security guard. Those are my solutions if you are really pissed and wanna fight the system.

If they ban camera's at games then that cool effect of seeing all the flashes go off when the guy goes for a dunk would stop happening!
This is some of the stupidest advice I've seen on here. First try to sneak things in you're not allowed to at a major event where every security guard is on terrorist alert in his own mind. What is this from, how to get tased 101? Illegally bribe someone - good idea, risk getting someone fired and yourself banned. WHAT THE *#*(?!!?!?! Completely asinine...better advice, don't whine about it as you're supposed to be there to watch the game, not take photos.

The "cool effect" of strobes going off is the professionals on the sideline shooting and of course they would still be allowed in as they are MEDIA.

[FlyingPhotog]

And FWIW, in the NBA, not every pro is considered "Stroby Worthy" so many are still shooting ambient despite being credentialed.

[Thalagyrt]

And FWIW, in the NBA, not every pro is considered "Stroby Worthy" so many are still shooting ambient despite being credentialed.

Heh, were you referring to me? I resemble that remark. ;)

You'll see me on the floor, right side of the basket facing the court on the Heat side of the bench at most home games. D3, 70-200, long hair, usually jeans and a black button down shirt.

The NBA is very strict on photography in general when it comes to licensing, but yes, what you ran into regarding lens length is a policy of the AAA in particular. A lot of arenas have similar policies.

[Apollo.11]

I had the same problem at a Dallas Cowboys game. I ending bringing it in a non-camera bag. Some guy yelled at me from the sideline to put up my lens when I was shooting the pre-game warmup, so I just went to another area and started shooting again. Didn't have any issues once the game and crowd got going. I was using my 70-200.

[FlyingPhotog]

Heh, were you referring to me? I resemble that remark. ;)

Persecution Complex Perhaps? :lol:

Actually, I was thinking of another friend of mine who shoots PHX Suns for a Sports Website. Fully Credentialed but not "Strobe Worthy."

I think you would agree that yours is a "unique" situation... :p

[Thalagyrt]

Persecution Complex Perhaps? :lol:

Actually, I was thinking of another friend of mine who shoots PHX Suns for a Sports Website. Fully Credentialed but not "Strobe Worthy."

I think you would agree that yours is a "unique" situation... :p

Haha, yep. The strobes are pretty much sacred ground in NBA arenas though. They're owned by the NBA, there are generally 5 sets, so only 5 people can use them. They cannot be used for any non-NBA events, period, unless approved by the NBA. It's nuts how protective they are of them.

In the AAA the people who get them: Heat Photographer (not game, just random stuff), NBA Photographer (my buddy that I shoot with), Sun Sentinel, 2x Miami Herald

[Sibil]

Just curious, what's the ambient light in an NBA arena? ISO, SS, app.?

[Croasdail]

Just curious, what's the ambient light in an NBA arena? ISO, SS, app.?

They are all very good, seldom needing more than iso 800. They used to have it so you could shoot slightly pushed 400, and it has only gotten better. But they are all a little different, so there is no one setting. I would typically go 1/800 min SS, f2.8-3.2 on the long lens, and f4 on my wides. The wides you can stop down more because they gather more reflected light than a tele....and of course aren't as shutter speed critical.

[Thalagyrt]

ISO 6400, f/3.5, 1/1000" is my typical exposure to get things spot on without having to adjust in post. Our arena seems to have turned their lights down a bit.

Example:

http://www.thalagyrt.com/files/dunk.jpg

[TristateViP]

I actually called the Nets to confirm what was allowed and was told as long its not an obnoxious lens im fine, they just don't allow back packs

[JHunter]

The wides you can stop down more because they gather more reflected light than a tele....and of course aren't as shutter speed critical.

f/2.8 is f/2.8 is f/2.8. A wide lens does not mean f/4 gathers as much light as f/2.8, 1/400th at f/2.8 on a 200mm is the exact same exposure at 1/400th at f/2.8 on a 24mm.

[Croasdail]

Do a test your hand held light meter. First do a spot meter. Then go to ambient. See if you get the same reading. I am willing to put dollars on it, you will not. Its the same thing as what is happening when you go from tele to wide. They are not seeing the same thing.

The field of view for a 200 is much different than a 24. Particularly on basketball courts, the wider you get, the more refracted light off the floor and other sources you gain. It also helps control flair from overhead lights.

Just my experience... it works for me.

[butugly]

It depends on the stadium/arena and your attack on the NBA as a league makes you just sound like a whiner. You might as well get used to photo policy restrictions because I do believe with technology getting better and more and more people trying to sell unlicensed photos from games they will get stricter. They're trying to protect their rights since it's their event and their rules, you're paying for the privilege to watch their game, so in short - nothing you can do, get over it.


Their rights their event their rules privilege,hog wash, If you the fan did'nt
buy the ticket no event would go on.:rolleyes:

[bacchanal]

Their rights their event their rules privilege,hog wash, If you the fan did'nt
buy the ticket no event would go on.:rolleyes:

But the fans do buy the tickets, and the vast majority of them follow the rules.

[butugly]

Exactly you buy the ticket to see the game its not a privilege to see the game,its not their event they only put the event on, their rules hogwash soon the rules will state you cant cheer your team as that would discriminate against the other team.
They wont loose any significant income from people taking their own photos.

[jamesb84]

Exactly you buy the ticket to see the game its not a privilege to see the game,its not their event they only put the event on, their rules hogwash soon the rules will state you cant cheer your team as that would discriminate against the other team.
They wont loose any significant income from people taking their own photos.

It is their event, they pay out the cash to put it on...fair enough, they make a profit, but it's their event.

You buy a ticket and agree to abide by their terms and conditions. If those T&Cs say "no photography" then you either abide by it, or face the consequences.

End of story.

Don't like it? Don't go.

You're probably right, they wouldnt lose significant income, but...there's always one person who spoils the party...

BTW, my parents live in Billericay...always good to see another essex-er!

[butugly]

But the T&Cs discriminate between different types of camera not right surely.they may put the event on but if it were not for the paying puplic/photographer they would'nt have an event to put on,nice to know i'm not hte only one from essex hiya.

[JHunter]

Do a test your hand held light meter. First do a spot meter. Then go to ambient. See if you get the same reading. I am willing to put dollars on it, you will not. Its the same thing as what is happening when you go from tele to wide. They are not seeing the same thing.

The field of view for a 200 is much different than a 24. Particularly on basketball courts, the wider you get, the more refracted light off the floor and other sources you gain. It also helps control flair from overhead lights.

Just my experience... it works for me.

I probably won't get the same reading, you're right. The camera meter is getting fooled. The light on the player is exactly the same, regardless of field of view. Switching to a 200mm lens does not stop the light from bouncing off the floor onto the player, it just means it's not bouncing to the camera and confusing the meter. I regularly shoot with the exact same settings on my 24-70 and 70-200, and (no surprise, except maybe to you) get pictures that are exposed exactly the same. 1/800th, f/2.8, ISO 3200 is always the exact same exposure, regardless of lens used. Get used to shooting manual and you'll realize that.

[MJPhotos24]

Their rights their event their rules privilege,hog wash, If you the fan did'nt
buy the ticket no event would go on.:rolleyes:
Too bad 99.9% of the fans go for the event and not taking photos - just because you buy a ticket doesn't mean you get it your way - tough crap and don't go if you don't like it.

[FlyingPhotog]

Their rights their event their rules privilege,hog wash, If you the fan did'nt
buy the ticket no event would go on.:rolleyes:

Not True...

TV Rights Money accounts for quite a bit of pro team revenue.

[Croasdail]

I probably won't get the same reading, you're right. The camera meter is getting fooled. The light on the player is exactly the same, regardless of field of view. Switching to a 200mm lens does not stop the light from bouncing off the floor onto the player, it just means it's not bouncing to the camera and confusing the meter. I regularly shoot with the exact same settings on my 24-70 and 70-200, and (no surprise, except maybe to you) get pictures that are exposed exactly the same. 1/800th, f/2.8, ISO 3200 is always the exact same exposure, regardless of lens used. Get used to shooting manual and you'll realize that.

Amigo, I have been shooting NCAA and Pro sports now for over 28 years.... I would love for you to teach me what I am doing wrong. True the exposure is the same, but the FOV isn't, and hence the light that is being reflected back isn't. Anyway....

[airfrogusmc]

Amigo, I have been shooting NCAA and Pro sports now for over 28 years.... I would love for you to teach me what I am doing wrong.

If the light is constant across the court changing lenses is not going to change the exposure on the court. Your meter can be effected by different colors because those color reflect light differently but you shouldn't change your cameras exposure. You could walk down on the court before the game and take an incident meter reading and as long as that light doesn't change, that should be correct exposure no mater what lens or camera you are shooting with if the lenses and the cameras are working correctly. Things like color and different type of reflectance off surfaces can effect your meter thus giving incorrect readings.

[airfrogusmc]

Not True...

TV Rights Money accounts for quite a bit of pro team revenue.

You're so right. Most terams only make a small amount on ticket sales when compared to the $$$ they make from TV.

[airfrogusmc]

Do a test your hand held light meter. First do a spot meter. Then go to ambient. See if you get the same reading. I am willing to put dollars on it, you will not. Its the same thing as what is happening when you go from tele to wide. They are not seeing the same thing.

The field of view for a 200 is much different than a 24. Particularly on basketball courts, the wider you get, the more refracted light off the floor and other sources you gain. It also helps control flair from overhead lights.

Just my experience... it works for me.

Yes the FoV is different but unless someone has changed the light, the light remains constant thus if the correct exposure is say f/8 at 1/1000 of a sec then no mater what lens that is going to remain constant.

[Croasdail]

If the light is constant across the court changing lenses is not going to change the exposure on the court. Your meter can be effected by different colors because those color reflect light differently but you shouldn't change your cameras exposure. You could walk down on the court before the game and take an incident meter reading and as long as that light doesn't change, that should be correct exposure no mater what lens or camera you are shooting with if the lenses and the cameras are working correctly. Things like color and different type of reflectance off surfaces can effect your meter thus giving incorrect readings.

The best measure is off the floor completely agreed. One thing that directly impacts exposure are the painted areas on the floor - the key and the usually painted logo area in the center. You usually see this in the shadowed areas getting deeper in and around the key.

But you also have the effect of the overhead lights. When you use a very tight shot, you are getting little impact from the overhead lights. But in arenas like the Old NC State with a wide angle - or others that particularly use rim lighting, you start picking up direct light - not just reflected off the subject. The impact to the photo varies. But what you typically end up with is you don't deal with it is usually blown highlights or deep shadows. Unfortunately the price is loss of contrast. But that is a lot easier to fix now days in photoshop rather than like in the old days applying contrast filters.

Anyway, photography is 1 part science, 1 part emotion, and 1 part experience. The science part of it makes people feel comfortable - much of the reason I gravitated to the photojournalism side of things. But experience is what helps us when what should work right logically, doesn't. Experience is also what tells us how to shoot into the light when the light meter tells us something different. T-stops were invented because f-stops aren't always right. Anyway.... enough on this. Cheers.

[jdmpower]

Any suggestions 2nd row courtside at staples. FF with a 50 1.4 or a 85 1.8? Anyone think the 85 will be too long?

[Thalagyrt]

85 if you're full frame. I shoot on the court for the Heat and generally don't go wider than 70mm. 2nd or 3rd row you'll want at least 70mm, otherwise you're gonna get some of the action and a lot of people's heads. 1/1000" shutter is pretty much a requirement for that type of action. Try to push it higher if you can, even if you have to push the ISO a bit. I shoot 6400, 1/1000", f/3.5.

Edit:

Here, so you can see what I mean - 70 is pretty much perfect framing from courtside, so a bit further back 85 should be perfect.

http://www.thalagyrt.com/files/HEAT_CAVS/HEAT_CAVS-0013.jpg

[aVisage]

Too bad 99.9% of the fans go for the event and not taking photos - just because you buy a ticket doesn't mean you get it your way - tough crap and don't go if you don't like it.

Exactly, no DSLR type rules piss off so few fans (relatively speaking) that there isn't really an economic downside to doing so from a venue/team etcs POV.

[jdmpower]

[QUOTE=Thalagyrt;9297203]85 if you're full frame. I shoot on the court for the Heat and generally don't go wider than 70mm. 2nd or 3rd row you'll want at least 70mm, otherwise you're gonna get some of the action and a lot of people's heads. 1/1000" shutter is pretty much a requirement for that type of action. Try to push it higher if you can, even if you have to push the ISO a bit. I shoot 6400, 1/1000", f/3.5.


Thanks heres the outcome
Here are some pics from the Lakers / Clippers game the other night. Sorry for the yellow blob some big head kept getting in my way

http://www.socalshutterbug.com/Portfolio/365-Day-Project-2010/kobe-bd/759961851_qoiYD-L.jpg
http://www.socalshutterbug.com/Portfolio/365-Day-Project-2010/IMG6307-copy/759454435_VwuJz-L-1.jpg
http://www.socalshutterbug.com/Portfolio/365-Day-Project-2010/IMG6316/759298265_hkJ6j-L-1.jpg
http://www.socalshutterbug.com/Portfolio/365-Day-Project-2010/IMG6321/759298285_tsRVF-L-1.jpg

[ChasWG]

I always get in with my gear. NFL, MLB, NHL... Oh, it might have to do with the media cred. hanging around my neck. Network TV cred that is. The only place a still camera can not be taken into is the locker room. For a couple of Colorado Rockies games I've left my stuff with the guy outside the door. He's a long timer there and totally trustworthy. He keeps an eye on it for me as we go in to get post game interviews. Other stadiums I just pack it all in a very inconspicous back pack and no one ever asks. I just don't take it out in the locker room. That would be icky!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/4139634329_893622127a_b.jpg

[FlyingPhotog]

I always get in with my gear.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/4139634329_893622127a_b.jpg

Yet another reason I'm tired of being a tape guy. We never get to have any fun... :(

[ChasWG]

So, I'm going to the Denver Nuggets play the Orlando Magic tonight at the Pepsi Center. After reading all of this, again, I thought I just might looked up the Pepsi Center online and read their Fan Rules A to Z and this is what it says:

Cameras/Video Equipment
Fans are welcome to bring personal cameras into Pepsi Center, however, video cameras are not allowed. Flash photography, monopods and tripods are not permitted in the seating bowl. Generally, cameras and audio recording devices are not permitted at concerts and other events. For camera policies concerning a specific event please contact Guest Relations for more information.


I even called them to verify this was correct info. The lady that answered the phone was polite and said it was just fine. Then I asked about the lens issue. She said any lens was just fine. I'm pretty sure that if I was to drag a 400 f2.8 in I would get asked a few interesting questions. But my 70-200 L shouldn't raise too many eyebrows. She also said that the Pepsi Center just recently reviewed the "No Cameras" policy and changed it to the more, "Whatever Goes" policy.

Yea Me! I'll post some of the images up tomorrow. Go Melo!

[ChasWG]

Yet another reason I'm tired of being a tape guy. We never get to have any fun... :(

"Tape guy?" As in theTV truck tape guy?
And don't talk to me about not having any fun. I see your images, you have plenty of fun bub! ;)

As for the field access, I could even go and get a real photo vest at the Bronco games and sit along the sidelines andshoot most of the game. What we do for NFL Network we never have to shoot the game. Just Pre and Post stuff. Otherwise I'm sitting in the press box eating and watching football. Yea, it's a tough life, but someone has to do it. :D

[FlyingPhotog]

"Tape guy?" As in theTV truck tape guy?

Yepper... 20+ year veteran freelancer.

And don't talk to me about not having any fun. I see your images, you have plenty of fun bub! ;)

You'll notice though that 95% of what I show from "work" isn't people working. It's always during a break or before we're on the air for the day. I'd love to actually document an entire show from parking the trucks to the trucks rolling off to the next city but it's hard to shoot pics when you're one of the people striking cable.

As for the field access, I could even go and get a real photo vest at the Bronco games and sit along the sidelines andshoot most of the game. What we do for NFL Network we never have to shoot the game. Just Pre and Post stuff. Otherwise I'm sitting in the press box eating and watching football. Yea, it's a tough life, but someone has to do it. :D

The growth of the "Host League Networks" is crazy but it sure makes for plenty of work to go around.

[ChasWG]

Wow Jay, I didn't know that's what you did for a living. Cool! You guys on th trucks work way too hard. A the beginning and again at the end. I guess strick is always easier. Except maybe dealing with broken bits and pieces. But for the most part, it's the cables that kill me with that job. I hate it!

[FlyingPhotog]

Wow Jay, I didn't know that's what you did for a living. Cool! You guys on th trucks work way too hard. A the beginning and again at the end. I guess strick is always easier. Except maybe dealing with broken bits and pieces. But for the most part, it's the cables that kill me with that job. I hate it!

If you haven't seen it already, I have made an effort to document my activities over the last few seasons over HERE (http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/scenes_from_the_road) on PBase.

[ChasWG]

If you haven't seen it already, I have made an effort to document my activities over the last few seasons over HERE (http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/scenes_from_the_road) on PBase.

Those are some great shots Jay. Nice coverage of your life while working. I love the portrait style you took with alot of those.

"This is not a Sports Bar, it's a multi-million dollar Television facility. Please treat as such."

LMAO! I have seen the same sign many times while working near or around the trucks! I try to stay away from them as they are expensive and there are more wires than I would care to try and re-hook if I were to trip over something. :lol:

[ChasWG]

So, back to the topic. I went to the game last night and as stated, I was allowed to enter with my camera and any lens. Well they didn't even check my back-pack. I came in with my son through the will call ticket PU entrance. I just walked right in. Cool and scary all at the same time. Hmmmm...
Anyhow, here are a few of the images I got last night. I didn't try too hard as I was having a fun time with my son and the Nuggets were beating up on the Magic pretty well.

Here's one shot to say, "go look at the rest in the picture sharing section before Biff gets in here and rolls his eyes at me." :rolleyes:

The Nuggets Dancers, yeah, that says Basketball!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4273963617_cdb009b128_b.jpg

[joedlh]

I think the funniest thing about this shot is/are all the male legs in the background.

[onel0126]

Sorry if someone said this already as I just skimmed over the posts....In DC, alot of the stadiums/arenas have the "8 inch" rule. This being said, go measure a Canon 70-200 2.8 IS without the hood :p.

[The Mack]

PGA is the biggest bunch of whiners ever. "No shots in back swing" Seriously, if the sound of a camera clicking disturbs your shot, you suck.

[ChasWG]

Recently over heard as oneIO126 was trying to talk his way past a bag checking security woman, "Yeah baby, that's 8 inches! I wouldn't lie to you babe, Really." ;)

I had the hood on my 70-200 f4L last night. Without the hood it's just under 8 inches, with it on it's 10.25 inches. Really baby!

[DC Fan]

PGA is the biggest bunch of whiners ever. "No shots in back swing" Seriously, if the sound of a camera clicking disturbs your shot, you suck.

Questions about etiquette on the golf course have been asked and answered many times before. (http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/826)

Another picture from a NBA game, by the way.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/online/d_fma.jpg

Well, almost NBA. It comes from a Fort Wayne Mad Ants game in the NBA Developmental League, a minor league. Went to the game with a XTi and a 70-300mm IS, took pictures and no one cared.

Back to the issue of this thread: getting a camera into an event always depends on the venue and the people who work there. There's one recent event where the event program said "no professional equipment," but no one lifted a finger against the XTi and the 70-300mm. If you get to know the venues in your area, you can pick your spots and avoid confrontations.

[FlyingPhotog]

PGA is the biggest bunch of whiners ever. "No shots in back swing" Seriously, if the sound of a camera clicking disturbs your shot, you suck.

You don't do anything in the middle of a player's backswing.

That's simple Golf 101.

[ChasWG]

OK, one more image from a real NBA game.

Can you say "DE-FENCE!?"
JR Smith was just killin' it last night.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4273969183_ba7388a9b9_b.jpg

I agree with DCFan, it's all about the venue. Simply look the place up online and see what their policies are about photography from the stands. Then call them to see if what is on line is any different. There is always a person from Guess relations at the venue if there is a question. Do some research first.

[snoop99]

I was shooting NBA game for first time. I wish I read this thread earlier I should have bumped up the ISO and used 1/1000 shutter speed and f/3.5 with 70-200 2.8 which is soft wipe open. If I go back with 7D I'll use the auto iso on 7D with shutter fixed at 1/1000.


ISO 1600
Center Zone Focus
AI Servo
1/640
F/2.8

I borrowed the lens for 3RD Quarter of the game. In NBA arena with good lighting this is great combination. I had a high keeper rate with most photo's being in focus. I need this lens now.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2682/4264830710_6a24d8c0e1_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4264138795_5a7d51c0bc_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4263980581_934d91bcab_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4264721404_59ed3e0d50_b.jpg

[Thalagyrt]

I was shooting NBA game for first time. I wish I read this thread earlier I should have bumped up the ISO and used 1/1000 shutter speed and f/3.5 with 70-200 2.8 which is soft wipe open. If I go back with 7D I'll use the auto iso on 7D with shutter fixed at 1/1000.


ISO 1600
Center Zone Focus
AI Servo
1/640
F/2.8

I borrowed the lens for 3RD Quarter of the game. In NBA arena with good lighting this is great combination. I had a high keeper rate with most photo's being in focus. I need this lens now.

I wouldn't even bother with auto ISO, just bump it up to 6400 and shoot 1/1000, f/3.2 or 3.5, that way the exposure is nice and consistent. Noise is secondary to freezing action and getting a consistent exposure when you're doing sports.

Auto ISO tends to jump around a lot and you'll find that players with dark jerseys are overexposed while players with light jerseys are underexposed. Yes, I've tried it and stopped using it within about 5 minutes of the game starting. ;)

[The Mack]

You don't do anything in the middle of a player's backswing.

That's simple Golf 101.
I KNOW it's simple golf 101, but it's retarded. Simple as that, retarded.

[MacGrad]

I KNOW it's simple golf 101, but it's retarded. Simple as that, retarded.

Brilliant argument. :rolleyes:

Each profession has certain "courtesies" that are observed... just because you don't like or understand them, it doesn't make them "stupid" or "retarded".

[Dmao]

I went through this thread quickly, but like others have said...it's not an NBA policy. It's depends on the venue.

Here in Toronto, both the Raptors(NBA) and Leafs (NHL) play at the Air Canada Centre. Both teams are also owned by the same owners (MLSE).

For the Raptors, you can bring whatever lens you want as long as you don't disturb or get in the way of other people at the game. Of course, no flash photography allowed. I've seen quite a few people with 200 or 300mm long glass at the game, no problem.

As for the Leafs...they are strict as hell on the camera policy. I haven't been in a while, but people are telling me the maximum is 50mm or cameras that look 'too professional' are not allowed. Surprising, for a team that sucks so much with unbelievably high ticket prices that get sold out every game regardless...


Anyways...GO RAPTORS GO!

[MacGrad]

As for the Leafs...they are strict as hell on the camera policy. I haven't been in a while, but people are telling me the maximum is 50mm or cameras that look 'too professional' are not allowed. Surprising, for a team that sucks so much with unbelievably high ticket prices that get sold out every game regardless...

They don't want any lasting photographic evidence showing how bad the team is... :)

[gonzogolf]

PGA is the biggest bunch of whiners ever. "No shots in back swing" Seriously, if the sound of a camera clicking disturbs your shot, you suck.


Do you play golf?

[bigrob]

Yet another reason I'm tired of being a tape guy. We never get to have any fun... :(

FlyingPhotog - I had a quick look through some of your images.

This one just cracks me up http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/image/96603526

Us Brits don't use the word cool but in this case I can as it's a good pun. :lol:

[FlyingPhotog]

FlyingPhotog - I had a quick look through some of your images.

This one just cracks me up http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/image/96603526

Us Brits don't use the word cool but in this case I can as it's a good pun. :lol:

Thanks...

I need to migrate that whole collection off PBase and over to Zen but I'm sure you can see why I've not done it yet. Too much damn work...

[Rainyday]

I KNOW it's simple golf 101, but it's retarded. Simple as that, retarded.

I wouldn't call it retarded. However, I do think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a competent golfer to be able to fully concentrate on his swing and tune out everything else.

[FlyingPhotog]

I wouldn't call it retarded. However, I do think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a competent golfer to be able to fully concentrate on his swing and tune out everything else.

Some can and some have what are known as "Rabbit Ears" and hear everything.

Forget 500+ mm lenses and try being the guy who got this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0912/all-decade.top.si.photos.of.the.decade/content.18.html) image of Tiger Woods (without getting killed by his caddie.)