so where is the line drawn?

[k-style]

I come accross this issue....does quality over quantity even matters anymore??...

i was hired by a coworker to take some portraits at this little baby halloween party she set up in her living room, it was 2 hours and so i just charged her 100$ which was divided between 5 people...so it was 20$ each, now i took about 70 pictures of which i kept 36, edited them and posted them on my site in a private gallery....i tell her the pics are up and she texted me back...."im only able to see 36"...

for some reason i was bummed....i expected something like "thank you!"...if you wanted massive amounts of pictures with no thought put into them you didnt need me....but if you hired me idk how many pictures i was expected to take thru a 2 hour period and then edit each one....it was only 100$....

im i wrong??...has this ever happened to you guys?

[Shootfilm]

If they were portraits then I think 36 is much more than fair. If they were candids then I would have shot much more or at least made sure there were more keepers.

SF

[suecassidy]

WAY back in the day, in photography school, our portraiture instructor said that the rule of thumb for estimating your time on a wedding project was that for every hour you shoot, you will have 4-5 hours post processing. At that time, I shot 35mm and medium format, and it held true. By the time, I got the negatives developed, marked up the contact sheets with lab instructions, put albums together etc., that estimate was pretty darned close. I now shoot digital. It takes just as much time because I am photoshopping myself. Give that some thought BEFORE you give people a price. Most people have NO IDEA about the work that goes into post processing digital photos because they don't ever do it. Unless you are a pro or interested amateur, they just shoot and let the pics live on dust filled hard drives, never even PRINTING them out, let alone anything else.

Perhaps you could tell that person, "yes, there are 36 posted. For the $100 fee on a two hour job, I typically only edit and post 25 or so, but I wanted to make sure that a good mix of the guests were represented....I'm not charging for the extra ones I posted. Hope you like them." Then shut your mouth and be comfortable with the silence if there is one. You have nothing to apologize or feel bad about. Sheesh.

[suecassidy]

BWA HA HA. I just reread your post. You didn't even get the $100. It was divided between 5 of you. Unbelieveable. That says more about her than about you. She really has a lot of nerve.

[k-style]

thank you sue, I really think the pictures i got were worth the 100$ or maybe even more...but ive realized that yes the majority of people dont see the magic in photography and the amount of work that is done past the shutter click.....this is a very unnapreciated art....people truely believe is just point and shoot....anywho here are some of the shots i took....they are on my flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23156579@N07/

[SnapsbyPoteat]

your pictures are beautiful, the moms should be more than pleased with them, you've done the right thing! Suecassidy has great advice, I would go along with that as well.

[k-style]

thank you breathless_moments, I'm confident in them....just a bit bummed...btw I have a siggy 10-20 I might be selling..interested?

[SnapsbyPoteat]

You know last week I had the hardest time deciding whether or not to but a flash or a sigma 10-20, I'm so indecisive, well I went with the flash and now I'm trying to get all the accessories I need with it (stands, bracket, transmitter, receivers, etc.), and I ended up making a list of all the photography gear I want/need to start wedding/portrait photography. The sigma 10-20 is number 6 on my list. So it'll probably be another month or 2 before I have the money to buy it. But it is soooo tempting!

[saqib]

i agree. nice shots. some people have a lotta nerve.

[RDKirk]

i was hired by a coworker to take some portraits at this little baby halloween party she set up in her living room, it was 2 hours and so i just charged her 100$ which was divided between 5 people...so it was 20$ each, now i took about 70 pictures of which i kept 36, edited them and posted them on my site in a private gallery....i tell her the pics are up and she texted me back...."im only able to see 36"...

I'm basically on your side, but what did the other four people do? Weren't they also taking pictures? For the $20 you got, 36 pictures is certainly enough...but what did the other four people do?

[scotiaphillips]

I think he means $20 each from 5 people (assuming parents here) to pay the photographer at total of $100.
They hosed you, Bud!

[Cosha]

Give them there money back and kindly tell them to go buy there own DSLR and Photoshop package, and tell them you will hire them for 2 hours for $25

:)

20th centry People = Stupid and clueless :rolleyes:

[RDKirk]

I think he means $20 each from 5 people (assuming parents here) to pay the photographer at total of $100.
They hosed you, Bud!

Well, I certainly read that wrong.

In this case and looking at the pictures, I agree that what you have provided is more than suitable for the price you charged, but clearly the client had a different expectation.

I find that I must make sure to "set the proper expectation" of my clients every time. They always expect to see as many images as they hear the shutter click. If you tend to use the camera as a sketchpad or to "build" to the picture you want, you have to explain to them beforehand that you will edit down to the best image of, say, a particular pose and that is what you will present to them. You have to tell them clearly--they won't come to that conclusion on their own.

[scotiaphillips]

I could not find the Halloween baby party pix but everything here is great: nice tone, unique style, very entertaining.

Someone always wants more and many cannot recognize artistry.

[k-style]

thanx for the replies guys.
RDkirk you pretty much nailed it, she said and i quote "I thought i saw you take soooo many more pictures" basically everytime i snapped, she was expecting that picture to be a keeper, ill be sure to be clearer on what they should expect before hand next time.

scotia, yes each parent paid me about 20$....although i didnt make much there, in order for them to get prints they have to ordered them from me, so im hoping to also capitalize there. btw scotia, the baby pics are i think on the 3rd page of my flickr...im sorry im always adding new stuff...

[saqib]

Well i think it's just plain greedy that they expected more shots for only $20 a piece. They are lucky they got as many as 36!!

I charge £100/shoot and get between 30-40 good ones. That £100 involves my time taking the pictures, which I aim for around 2 hours, and then processing, which can sometimes take just as long.

I recently tried to get some models and offered a free photoshoot for them, with the option to buy prints, and i got some cheap so-and-so send me rude emails saying 'well how is it free when you don't do any prints with it????'. i wrote back politely that my usual sitting fee is £100 - which I am not charging. But this guy expected me to give him a set of prints of the shoot, plus little gifts eg keychains etc. I kinda decided that I would instead limit myself to people from a certain area i.e. affluent, instead of any place within my city.

So I know where you are coming from, and stand behind you 100%.

[k-style]

Well i think it's just plain greedy that they expected more shots for only $20 a piece. They are lucky they got as many as 36!!

I charge £100/shoot and get between 30-40 good ones. That £100 involves my time taking the pictures, which I aim for around 2 hours, and then processing, which can sometimes take just as long.

I recently tried to get some models and offered a free photoshoot for them, with the option to buy prints, and i got some cheap so-and-so send me rude emails saying 'well how is it free when you don't do any prints with it????'. i wrote back politely that my usual sitting fee is £100 - which I am not charging. But this guy expected me to give him a set of prints of the shoot, plus little gifts eg keychains etc. I kinda decided that I would instead limit myself to people from a certain area i.e. affluent, instead of any place within my city.

So I know where you are coming from, and stand behind you 100%.

THAT IS PLAIN RIDICULOUS AND DISRESPECTFUL!

being a newcomer to this "business" of photography ive felt insulted countless times, worst of all is your own friends, just the other day i did some 1st year portraits for a friend's daughter....she wanted to order some prints afterwards, 64 wallets to be exact....so she asked me before hand how much the prints would be, i then told her 65$ when in reality they only cost me about 25$ to get them printed....thank God i did this, otherwise she would have just given me the 25$...you would think after i provided some nice photos of her baby, she would have the decency to even give me 100$ for the work put in....next time she asks me to shoot her daughter, ill let her know I DONOT WORK FOR FREE!

[Milla]

THAT IS PLAIN RIDICULOUS AND DISRESPECTFUL!

being a newcomer to this "business" of photography ive felt insulted countless times, worst of all is your own friends, just the other day i did some 1st year portraits for a friend's daughter....she wanted to order some prints afterwards, 64 wallets to be exact....so she asked me before hand how much the prints would be, i then told her 65$ when in reality they only cost me about 25$ to get them printed....thank God i did this, otherwise she would have just given me the 25$...you would think after i provided some nice photos of her baby, she would have the decency to even give me 100$ for the work put in....next time she asks me to shoot her daughter, ill let her know I DONOT WORK FOR FREE!

K-Style, I have this problem with my friends and family. They all want me to take professional pics of their kids for their birthdays and although I'm happy to do it, they expect me to do it all for free, and they don't see the 5-6 hours I spend editing.

[k-style]

K-Style, I have this problem with my friends and family. They all want me to take professional pics of their kids for their birthdays and although I'm happy to do it, they expect me to do it all for free, and they don't see the 5-6 hours I spend editing.


Its quite frustrating, is there ever a nice way to break away from this?...another example, tomorrow i was supposed to shoot my friends daughter, however he doesnt drive and we live about a 20 minute drive from each other, on top of the fact that he doesnt pay me, he expected me to pick him up and drop him off, not even give me gas money and since i wasnt willing to pick them up, they cancelled...makes no sense to me.

[RDKirk]

K-Style, I have this problem with my friends and family. They all want me to take professional pics of their kids for their birthdays and although I'm happy to do it, they expect me to do it all for free, and they don't see the 5-6 hours I spend editing.

My rule is: Full freight or free. I never do anything for anyone at "my cost" or at any kind of discount or cut rate, not even for family (especially not for family). Nobody appreciates a photographic discount. If you charge them a single dime, they will still believe you're making money on them.

If I like them well enough to want to give them a substantial gift, I do a fully professional job with all the wrappings totally free. Otherwise I send them a fruitcake and a Hallmark and call it done.

[rs2sensen]

I've run into this in other businesses as well, especially in printing. The truth is, many of my clients are friends, and friends of friends. If I gave everyone a discount, I wouldn't be charging anyone half price. My slogan has always been "Sorry, but this isn't my f-ing hobby." Of course, the trick is to remember this whenever I ask relatives for a favor!

[neil_r]

Your fault for not setting the expectation at the outset and not having a contract. She saw you firing off way more than 36 exposures and assumed (understandably) that you would be putting up more.

[neil_r]

K-Style, I have this problem with my friends and family. They all want me to take professional pics of their kids for their birthdays and although I'm happy to do it, they expect me to do it all for free, and they don't see the 5-6 hours I spend editing.

Family get free from me same as I get Legal, Medical and Dental from them (and free eggs) :-)

[asysin2leads]

I will do family for free and only charge them cost for prints. I don't like using Walgreens or Walmart all that often. I will even do custom Christmas cards if they want. Family is free, friends are discounted and others pay full price.

[bigrob]

Family get free from me same as I get Legal, Medical and Dental from them (and free eggs) :-)

Do you have a daughter that I can marry?

[Undispu7ed]

Do you have a daughter that I can marry?

I have dibs :D

[zelseman]

Welcome to the wonderful world of photography:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=781182&highlight=upset+mother
Not the same situation, but very close.
Lots of good information in that thread. I learned a valuable lesson.