Confused on Remote Triggered flashes and ETTL

[colbyb25]

I am just getting into using flash for some of my adventure photography work and I am a bit confused. I have a Canon 580ex II flash that I want to be able to use off camera, but until I get a better idea of how to use the flash manually, I would like to be able to take advantage of the ETTL system that has worked pretty well for me while on camera. Are the new PW my only choice then?

I want to be able to adjust the power of my flashes remotely as well. I was about to purchase a set of Alienbee remotes, when I read that I wouldn't be able to adjust the power of my remote flashes.

Any information would be helpful. Thanks!!

[camaz55]

subscribed - looking for similar info

[yogestee]

The only way I can think of to get full ETTL is use a Canon ST-E2 transmitter..

[colbyb25]

What about HSS or the ability to control the power of the flash remotely while the flash is off camera?

[yogestee]

What about HSS or the ability to control the power of the flash remotely while the flash is off camera?

Yep,,the ST-E2 will maintain all the features of your 580EX.. You can also adjust the flash output by the ratio control on the ST-E2.. And wait there's more,,, you can also control the output of two Speedlites independantly..

Quite an amazing piece of equipment but best used indoors..

[gonzogolf]

You have 3 options for wireless ettl. Radio popper (p1, or px series), Pocket wizard flex system, or canon's wireless system using either the st-e2 or another canon master flash. Those options allow full ettl.

[apersson850]

Using Canon's system with a 580 EX II as a master also allows three flash groups as well as manual power settings controlled remotely. The ST-E2 is somewhat limited here.

[dmward]

STE2 is a light based signaling protocol to communicate ETTL info to remote flashes. It works well within the limitation of the light signaling.

Pocket Wizard mineTT1 and FlexTT5 convert the camera TTL info to their protocol and then transmit it using RF. They support the Canon High Speed sync as well as a proprietary method for off setting the flash firing to permit higher than nominal sync speed.

The PW system is currently hampered by Radio Frequency interference from most of the Canon Speedlites. This is being solved with RF shielding for the flash. It can also be minimized by separating the speedlite and FlexTT5 via a TTL cable that has RF filters attached.

The STE2 can be mounted on the MiniTT1 to provide all the remote control, ratio control and group control it offers in the proprietary Canon system

Radio Popper, the solution I have not used, is a protocol convertor approach. i.e. it "reads" the Canon light signal, converts it to a radio frequency signal which is transmitted. Then received and converted back to a light signal which is "beamed" into the flash sensor via a fiber option lead.

I have STE2 and PW TTL systems. The STE2 can be used outside with care. The PW does a good job with HSS once you get it properly configured and get the RF problem under control.

[colbyb25]

So if I want HSS and the ability to control my flash power remotely then my only options are the TTI and FlexTT5...if I fix the radio frequency problem? What about the Cyber Commander from Alienbees? I realize that I should not rely on ETTL and should truly learn flash, but I think HSS and being able to control my flash power remotely would be huge advantages. I don't do any studio work as most of my photography is adventure based...documentaries, outdoor product work and such...so anything that is not based on radio frequency probably won't do me much good....

[gonzogolf]

Radio poppers will do all that as well.

[dmward]

The Cyber Commander only controls the PCB lights (Alien Bees, White Lightnings)
STE2, PW TTL or Radio Poppers are the three options for HSS control and remote power control. Both the PW and Radio Poppers need a Canon device (STE2 or speedlite) to do remote power and ratio control.

[The Ghost of FM]

Using Canon's system with a 580 EX II as a master also allows three flash groups as well as manual power settings controlled remotely. The ST-E2 is somewhat limited here.
That's the setup I use too! 580 exII on camera with a 430 exII as a remote slave. The system works like a charm indoors which is all I need it for, doing interior real estate photography. It would be nicer if the system could work the other way around too, switching master/slave roles, but that's life. ;)

Cheers!

[qadsan]

You have 3 options for wireless ettl. Radio popper (p1, or px series), Pocket wizard flex system, or canon's wireless system using either the st-e2 or another canon master flash. Those options allow full ettl.

Excellent summary. But there's also a 4th option, which is an ETTL cord. This is the least expensive option and a good option for some people. But here's the thing, there can be a large difference in the quality of these cords, some of which offer rock solid performance while others can be flaky or fail due to poor build quality, poor workmanship, etc. Lon at Flash Zebra sells good ETTL cords and if you do have a problem, he'll stand behind it and take care of you.

Here's a link to his off camera ETTL cords...
http://flashzebra.com/ttlcords/ettlcords/index.shtml

And in place of buying a ST-E2, you can also buy a an older 550EX flash to use as your master, or buy another 580EX II if you've got the money (one as master on the flash to control the slave off camera). But your limited in distance with the optical system being used by the flash & ST-E2. Radio is your best bet with the Pocket Wizards or Radio Poppers and I'd definitely pick the Radio Poppers for reliability and working distance when used with the 580EX II.

But if you don't mind giving up ETTL, then the inexpensive RF-602 wireless flash triggers offer excellent performance & reliability, especially for their price of ~$30 per kit delivered.

[apersson850]

That's the setup I use too! 580 exII on camera with a 430 exII as a remote slave. <snip/> It would be nicer if the system could work the other way around too, switching master/slave roles, but that's life.
The 7D supports using the built-in flash as a master, which makes all your flashes free to move around (within range).
Unfortunately, some 7D cameras don't work properly with this setup in E-TTL.

[gonzogolf]

Excellent summary. But there's also a 4th option, which is an ETTL cord. This is the least expensive option and a good option for some people. But here's the thing, there can be a large difference in the quality of these cords, some of which offer rock solid performance while others can be flaky or fail due to poor build quality, poor workmanship, etc. Lon at Flash Zebra sells good ETTL cords and if you do have a problem, he'll stand behind it and take care of you.

Here's a link to his off camera ETTL cords...
http://flashzebra.com/ttlcords/ettlcords/index.shtml

And in place of buying a ST-E2, you can also buy a an older 550EX flash to use as your master, or buy another 580EX II if you've got the money (one as master on the flash to control the slave off camera). But your limited in distance with the optical system being used by the flash & ST-E2. Radio is your best bet with the Pocket Wizards or Radio Poppers and I'd definitely pick the Radio Poppers for reliability and working distance when used with the 580EX II.

But if you don't mind giving up ETTL, then the inexpensive RF-602 wireless flash triggers offer excellent performance & reliability, especially for their price of ~$30 per kit delivered.

Gadsan,
Please note the world wirelessly in my previous response. I'm a big fan of long ocf cords, but that wasnt the OP's question.

[colbyb25]

Thanks for all the information. I guess what I am really looking for is the ability to adjust flash power and possibly use HSS on the fly. Unfortunately there seems to be no "not too expensive" ground. The new PW are super expensive as are the Radio Poppers that I was looking at. Would be nice to pay Alienbee prices and get more technical ability. In a prefect world I guess....

[The Ghost of FM]

The 7D supports using the built-in flash as a master, which makes all your flashes free to move around (within range).
Unfortunately, some 7D cameras don't work properly with this setup in E-TTL.
Good to know!

I'm using a 1DsMkII which has no built in flash...which doesn't bug me. ;)

Cheers!

[qadsan]

Gadsan,
Please note the world wirelessly in my previous response. I'm a big fan of long ocf cords, but that wasnt the OP's question.

I thought you summarized the wireless options nicely and I was only adding the corded option to your list of considerations for the OP, in case the OP was looking for a less expensive off camera option and had not yet considered long cord. A lot of people overlook corded ETTL simply because they don't know about it.

[The Ghost of FM]

I thought you summarized the wireless options nicely and I was only adding the corded option to your list of considerations for the OP, in case the OP was looking for a less expensive off camera option and had not yet considered long cord. A lot of people overlook corded ETTL simply because they don't know about it.
I for one am glad you posted that link! That looks like a decent product and a real problem solver.

Thank you!

Cheers!

[DDCSD]

What do you mean by "adventure photography"?

[colbyb25]

What do you mean by "adventure photography"?

Well I do a lot of photography work out in extreme locations. That includes landscape, fine art, documentary and product placement photography. I think it would be helpful to be able to adjust my flash power on the fly without having to walk over to my off camera flash and adjust it each time. Maybe that isn't as important as I am making it, but I thought it would be nice...

[Hella]

Just tagging along.

[gonzogolf]

Well I do a lot of photography work out in extreme locations. That includes landscape, fine art, documentary and product placement photography. I think it would be helpful to be able to adjust my flash power on the fly without having to walk over to my off camera flash and adjust it each time. Maybe that isn't as important as I am making it, but I thought it would be nice...

As nice as that option is, you have another consideration using ettl in those circumstances. Ettl is great in dynamic situations where the lighting changes from shot to shot. Ettl recalculates the exposure just before each shot. In multi light situations what you want is not constant recalculation but rather consistency of output which is what you would have using the flashes manually with a radio trigger. I chased ettl with a lot of cash ( 3 speedlites and radio poppers) and found in the end it just complicated things more than need be.

[DDCSD]

As nice as that option is, you have another consideration using ettl in those circumstances. Ettl is great in dynamic situations where the lighting changes from shot to shot. Ettl recalculates the exposure just before each shot. In multi light situations what you want is not constant recalculation but rather consistency of output which is what you would have using the flashes manually with a radio trigger. I chased ettl with a lot of cash ( 3 speedlites and radio poppers) and found in the end it just complicated things more than need be.

I agree, well put. You're better off buying a light meter than all the expensive ETTL flashes and transmitters.