Having trouble tracking moving subjects

[gregpphoto]

Hey all, I've been trying to get back into shooting skateboarding, but I'm encountering the same problem I've always had, I just can't seem to get an in focus sharp shot of moving skaters. I use AF Servo, but it doesnt help, so I assume I'm doing something wrong. I've also tried prefocusing but I'm no good at that either it seems. Any thoughts?

[FlyingPhotog]

Body / Lens Combo you're using? Daylight? Flash?

I think we need a few more details on this. ;)

[gregpphoto]

Sure. 50D, fisheye, 17-40 f/4, 35 f/1.4L, doesnt matter. And yes, using a few flashes actually, and shooting anywhere from 1/250 to 1/500 so I know I'm freezing the action, so it's gotta be the focus, right? Or maybe I'm moving the camera and not knowing it, a lot of times I'm bending at ridiculous angles or even just holding the camera out in space, its possible, but I know I still have the problem when I'm sitting steady.

[FlyingPhotog]

Can you post some samples with which you're not happy (EXIF Intact)?

[Zivnuska]

Can you post some samples with which you're not happy (EXIF Intact)?

+1.

Also, 1/250 sec is too slow to stop action for non flashed shots. At 1/500 you can do OK.

[gregpphoto]

+1.

Also, 1/250 sec is too slow to stop action for non flashed shots. At 1/500 you can do OK.

They were flashed. Two flashes, actually, both as max power.

[gregpphoto]

+1.

Also, 1/250 sec is too slow to stop action for non flashed shots. At 1/500 you can do OK.

Maybe you can read my whole post before posting, I quote myself "And yes, using a few flashes actually, and shooting anywhere from 1/250 to 1/500.."

[Zivnuska]

Maybe you can read my whole post before posting, I quote myself "And yes, using a few flashes actually, and shooting anywhere from 1/250 to 1/500.."

I did read it. When you said a few flashes, it was not clear that you meant that all shots were flashed.

How far above ambient were you on these flashed shots? There will be a significant difference between shooting at the max sync speed and HSS.

[gregpphoto]

I did read it. When you said a few flashes, it was not clear that you meant that all shots were flashed.

How far above ambient were you on these flashed shots? There will be a significant difference between shooting at the max sync speed and HSS.

I dont understand, how far above ambient, and hss? I definitely underexposed the scene and let the lights do a lot of the work.

[clarence]

I dont understand, how far above ambient, and hss? I definitely underexposed the scene and let the lights do a lot of the work.

You need the flash to be 2 or 3 stops above ambient in order to allow the strobes to freeze the motion and prevent ghosting/blurring.

HSS would work at higher SS if you're close enough, but only for a single on-board flash unless you get really fancy with radiopoppers or master/slave.

[DDCSD]

All of the advice and speculation is worthless without having some sample photos.

[patwill]

Are you using center focus point only?

I'd suggest you forego the exotic angles and the flash. And shoot with shutter speeds of 1/500 or higher until you resolve the focusing problems. Hold the camera up to your eye and make sure you are keeping the center focus point on a good high contrast part of your subject. Give the camera the moment it takes for the focus to lock on before you fire away.

[gregpphoto]

You need the flash to be 2 or 3 stops above ambient in order to allow the strobes to freeze the motion and prevent ghosting/blurring.

HSS would work at higher SS if you're close enough, but only for a single on-board flash unless you get really fancy with radiopoppers or master/slave.

Again, not sure what HSS means, high speed sync? If so, whats SS mean? In any event, i wasn't getting any ghosting, and I believe I was around a stop, two, or three higher than ambient.

All of the advice and speculation is worthless without having some sample photos.

Why, have you never seen oof images before? It takes me 3 minutes per image in DPP to process from RAW to JPEG and I don't have time to go through crap images. Besides, I delete most of em in camera anyway.


I was using all the focal points, mostly center but I tried them all. It didn't seem to make a difference. I had this same deal with the 20D, so I know it's me, not the camera, but where am I screwing up is what I wonder.

[AB8ND]

Make sure that you Keep tracking as you press the shutter, just like panning or shooting clay pigeons with a shotgun.
If you are not using back button focus, give it a try, this might help our problem.

Jack

[DDCSD]

Why, have you never seen oof images before? It takes me 3 minutes per image in DPP to process from RAW to JPEG and I don't have time to go through crap images. Besides, I delete most of em in camera anyway.


Yep, seen tons of them. There's many, many different reasons that photos appear to be oof. Posting a few examples can take the guesswork out of it and we can likely give you an idea of what may be happening. Without those examples, all we can do is list the reasons that photos may appear to be oof.

You photos may not even be technically oof. There may be something else going.

If it takes you 3 minutes to convert a raw file in DPP, you need to have a look at your workflow. You don't need to process the images for this, just convert them and post them.

Even if it does take you 3 minutes a photo, wouldn't it be worth spending 9 minutes to post up some samples if it gets you a good answer? Isn't that better than wasting all that time taking the photos only to delete them?

If you can't be bothered to take a few steps to help us help you, why should anyone waste their with you? Many people here (myself included) are more than happy to take some time helping people out. Our time is just as valuable as yours is.

There, I just wasted 3 minutes of my life to explain why you should post up some examples. Why not invest 3 minutes of your life to make your photos better? I think you owe it to everyone that has posted in this thread trying to help you.

[gregpphoto]

Yep, seen tons of them. There's many, many different reasons that photos appear to be oof. Posting a few examples can take the guesswork out of it and we can likely give you an idea of what may be happening. Without those examples, all we can do is list the reasons that photos may appear to be oof.

You photos may not even be technically oof. There may be something else going.

If it takes you 3 minutes to convert a raw file in DPP, you need to have a look at your workflow. You don't need to process the images for this, just convert them and post them.

Even if it does take you 3 minutes a photo, wouldn't it be worth spending 9 minutes to post up some samples if it gets you a good answer? Isn't that better than wasting all that time taking the photos only to delete them?

If you can't be bothered to take a few steps to help us help you, why should anyone waste their with you? Many people here (myself included) are more than happy to take some time helping people out. Our time is just as valuable as yours is.

There, I just wasted 3 minutes of my life to explain why you should post up some examples. Why not invest 3 minutes of your life to make your photos better? I think you owe it to everyone that has posted in this thread trying to help you.

Hahaha, that last part made me laugh, enough so that I will convert some out for you. It takes three minutes per photo to go from a RAW to JPEG through DPP. Not sure if that could even be my fault. I'm a believer in "its the indian not the arrow" but in this case, is there even anything I could be doing that would make the transfer go so slow?

[DDCSD]

Hahaha, that last part made me laugh, enough so that I will convert some out for you. It takes three minutes per photo to go from a RAW to JPEG through DPP. Not sure if that could even be my fault. I'm a believer in "its the indian not the arrow" but in this case, is there even anything I could be doing that would make the transfer go so slow?


Maybe shake your computer to wake up the little hamsters inside of it that seem to have fallen asleep?

[gregpphoto]

See if these help, or do you need me to post them full size?

This one is more like what I was getting all day and deleting on site. Looks like my track didnt track, it focused on the rest of the park behind the skater.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/4103121196_570ab2400d_b.jpg

This one is more like what I get when I get something "sharp" and "in focus." I hate it, I want these to be tacks, when you see mag shots they arent like this.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2636/4102361083_7c040bba2d_b.jpg

So w hats my best bet? Prefocus and pray? Or keep tracking and pray? Or f**k me and pray?

[FlyingPhotog]

#1 looks like you did indeed mis-focus and catch the background. Are you using only the center AF Spot?

#2 looks as if you need to raise your shutter speed some. You've got too much ambient mixed in and that's why your subjects hand and and board are smeared.

You have to think of flash as TWO exposures:
1) Get proper exposure for the background (and both of these are a tad on the overexposed side)
2) Add flash to get exposure on your subject

[rmwphoto.ca]

I shoot motocross all summer and know what its like when that focus dot
misses the subjet your shooting it sucks but it takes time and practice.
I got published twice in a mx magazine this year so I must be doing something right.

[clarence]

50D... using a few flashes actually, and shooting anywhere from 1/250 to 1/500 so I know I'm freezing the action, so it's gotta be the focus, right?

See if these help, or do you need me to post them full size?

So w hats my best bet? Prefocus and pray? Or keep tracking and pray? Or f**k me and pray?

EXIF would help. Need to know what mode you were shooting in and what settings you had on your flash. For example, if you were in Av mode and/or using HSS for flash... Av mode really gets screwy with flash... SS drops to xsync, which is too slow to stop motion, unless your flash overpowers ambient by 2 or 3 stops (which ain't gonna happen in mid-day at this skatepark).

So you'd need to use HSS, which is perfect for this setup... fast shutter speed and you're close enough to your subject for HSS to reach (the pulsing decreases the flash range in half).

Also surprised that you used such a narrow aperture... huge DoF. If EXIF was there, I could see if you were already maxed out on minimum ISO... if so, you might need ND.

[DDCSD]

#1 looks like you did indeed mis-focus and catch the background. Are you using only the center AF Spot?

#2 looks as if you need to raise your shutter speed some. You've got too much ambient mixed in and that's why your subjects hand and and board are smeared.

You have to think of flash as TWO exposures:
1) Get proper exposure for the background (and both of these are a tad on the overexposed side)
2) Add flash to get exposure on your subject


Good advice here.

I'll add that it's tough to track a moving subject with a fisheye when they start out fairly far away from you. They'll be very small in the viewfinder to start with.

If you're using speedlights for flashes, you'll probably get some blurring from the long flash duration at full power (combined with not being far enough over your ambient light). To get the flash duration quicker, you'll want to shoot them around 1/4 power or less. You may want to shoot later or earlier in the day when the sun is lower in the sky and easier to overpower.

Those shots you see in the mags were likely shot with very little ambient light and/or with very powerful strobes.