Isn't the ST-E2 better than an flash as master?

[Fellipe de Paula]

I'm thinking of getting a st-e2 because it's lighter and can help me focus at low light.

But, talking about its capacity to fire another strobe, isn't it better than another flash as master?

[TheHoff]

ST-E2 does not rotate. A flash master can rotate the head to better aim toward the slaves.

Flash masters can control A/B/C groups with ratios; ST-E2 can only control A/B ratio.

Flash masters can add on-camera fill if desired.

Flash masters use LCD/menu system; ST-E2 uses buttons (that one would be personal preference)

[Fellipe de Paula]

Thanks for answer.
About the non-rotate head issue, does it play a big role? How it works then? It just fire flash in front of it??

[TheHoff]

It can be an issue; yes. If your slave is behind you or too far to the side, it may not fire from the ST-E2.

That said, the ST-E2 makes a much better AF assist when you're just using it for that in low-light since it is so much smaller.

[Austin.Manny]

Time for a ST-E3... or in-camera ETTL like the 7D in every new camera.
Or even better: a firmware upgrade for every EOS camera to enable in-camera ETTL!

[TheHoff]

oh man is it ever time for an ST-E3. Feels like it was built by playskool... half of the ones I see in the field are missing one or both of the red panels. And don't get me started on the crappy hotshoe lock.

[m3rdpwr]

Canon probably won't bother updating the ST-E2 now that they will start incorporating a master in their camera's...

-Mario

[Todd Lambert]

I sold my ST-E2 and just got a 3rd 580EX II instead. I like being able to control my flashes in three groups, all through the camera instead of the ST-E2's only two groups and clumsy buttons.

Also like the fact that its a third flash for fill on camera, or with RF-602s, three remote flashes. To me it was better this way, so I sold my ST-E2 and just got another flash instead.

[PacAce]

Canon probably won't bother updating the ST-E2 now that they will start incorporating a master in their camera's...

-Mario
None of the 1D series cameras have a built-in flash. ;)

[m3rdpwr]

None of the 1D series cameras have a built-in flash. ;)

Nope, but that doesn't mean they won't put an infrared transmitter behind a sealed red panel like the ST-E2.

Plus if you have a camera that weighs that much, I don't want to hear you complain that a commander or 580EX adds too much weight or makes it awkward! lol

-Mario

[alt4852]

Plus if you have a camera that weighs that much, I don't want to hear you complain that a commander or 580EX adds too much weight or makes it awkward! lol

hell, when i have anything smaller than a 24-70 mounted, the 580EX makes the whole setup uncomfortably top-heavy. :p

[TheHoff]

I sold my ST-E2 and just got a 3rd 580EX II instead. I like being able to control my flashes in three groups, all through the camera instead of the ST-E2's only two groups and clumsy buttons.

Also like the fact that its a third flash for fill on camera, or with RF-602s, three remote flashes. To me it was better this way, so I sold my ST-E2 and just got another flash instead.

Another advantage I just learned is that a 580 EX2 as a master can control a 430 ex slave in 1/3 stop increments and down to 1/128 power whereas a 430 can't do that on its own.

I'm keeping my ST-E2 for simple low-light AF assist but i'll be going to a 580 EX2 master now, too.

[SMP_Homer]

Canon probably won't bother updating the ST-E2 now that they will start incorporating a master in their camera's...

-Mario

the built-in is missing some features, and shouldn't be considered an alternative

[SMP_Homer]

It can be an issue; yes. If your slave is behind you or too far to the side, it may not fire from the ST-E2.

flash bracket and offcamera cord fixes that issue

[m3rdpwr]

flash bracket and offcamera cord fixes that issue

With the added expense, awkwardness, weight and sometimes fragile off-camera cord, I'd opt for the 580EX/ii anyway...

-Mario

[m3rdpwr]

the built-in is missing some features, and shouldn't be considered an alternative

Perhaps, but I'd opt for a built in commander with some missing features than none at all.

If I need HSS or another feature, I'd have to got with a 580EX/ii anyway...

-Mario

[rooeey]

Canon probably won't bother updating the ST-E2 now that they will start incorporating a master in their camera's...

-Mario

They are incorporating a master in camera ??
Can you pint me to the info on this i am interested

[TheHoff]

flash bracket and offcamera cord fixes that issue

And suddenly the advantages of convenience and size of the ST-E2 are gone :D

[SMP_Homer]

And suddenly the advantages of convenience and size of the ST-E2 are gone :D

but you gain the advantages of placing your flashes in different places, and adjust your st-e2 to point at them as you move...
I've done just that at many hockey games... sorta taking advantage of the system's limitation

[SMP_Homer]

They are incorporating a master in camera ??
Can you pint me to the info on this i am interested

Canon 7D. You may have heard of it...
wireless flash commander is built-in

[SMP_Homer]

With the added expense, awkwardness, weight and sometimes fragile off-camera cord, I'd opt for the 580EX/ii anyway...

-Mario

I've gone both ways... there are times where I want the flash master, and other times when it's not needed. And a few times where the ST-E2 is mounted only to provide low-light focusing assistance, no flash anywhere waiting for its command!

Pros and Cons to both setup... but then it's mostly win-win if you have your hands on all options

[rooeey]

Canon 7D. You may have heard of it...
wireless flash commander is built-in

Yes i do remember something about a new model ....
Whats the inbuilt flash comander like and does the 1D MK1111 have it ?

[m3rdpwr]

Yes i do remember something about a new model ....
Whats the inbuilt flash comander like and does the 1D MK1111 have it ?

Since the 1D Series does not have a built-in flash, not likely.

However, it doesn't mean Canon might be tricky...
(Wishful thinkin.)

-Mario

[apersson850]

the built-in is missing some features, Which features are missing?

[krb]

Which features are missing?HSS and second curtain flash come to mind. Haven't we already had this discussion?

[PacAce]

HSS and second curtain flash come to mind. Haven't we already had this discussion?

It would just be HSS then since 2nd curtain sync is not available in wireless modes no matter what is used as the master.

[apersson850]

I was thinking about limitations to what you can setup with the wireless system. Didn't think about HSS, since that's a limitation of the flash itself, its main use is outdoors in bright light and there wireless doesn't work too well anyway.

[rooeey]

Since the 1D Series does not have a built-in flash, not likely.

However, it doesn't mean Canon might be tricky...
(Wishful thinkin.)

-Mario

Ok i see but would it not be feasable to have a flash control via camera without a flash ?

[krb]

Ok i see but would it not be feasable to have a flash control via camera without a flash ?
The Canon system uses pulses of light for communication and you need a "transmitter" that can quickly pulse at precise intervals with a wide enough angle to be seen by a receiver off to the side and brightly enough to be seen over any normal lighting. You can either spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel or you can include a popup flash, which has the added benefit of being usable as a fill light or even a main if you get stuck having to improvise.

[wernersl]

have to dig this back up. canon would absolutely kill the competition if they could incorporate RF communication in their bodies! i would totally rock a body with a little antenna on it!

please excuse the crude photochop job.

[Titus213]

have to dig this back up. canon would absolutely kill the competition if they could incorporate RF communication in their bodies! i would totally rock a body with a little antenna on it!

When I'm shooting off camera flash my camera does have a little antenna attached. It's called a Cybersync radio trigger....:lol:

[wernersl]

When I'm shooting off camera flash my camera does have a little antenna attached. It's called a Cybersync radio trigger....:lol:
but imagine ETTL capability as well.

[SMP_Homer]

and a 580EXIII with built-in receiver?

[krb]

but imagine ETTL capability as well.
The latest addition to that list:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=783222

[wernersl]

When I'm shooting off camera flash my camera does have a little antenna attached. It's called a Cybersync radio trigger....:lol:
and yeah i have those as well. handy little buggers.

[wernersl]

and a 580EXIII with built-in receiver?
absolutely.

[wernersl]

and a 580EXIII with built-in receiver?
guess i needed an image to represent

[apersson850]

Doesn't that look a bit funny when you bounce the flash?

The problem with built-in radio is the different regulatory demands in different parts of the world. Light is easier to handle from that point of view.
Hence I think radio will always be an add-on.

[windpig]

Doesn't that look a bit funny when you bounce the flash?

The problem with built-in radio is the different regulatory demands in different parts of the world. Light is easier to handle from that point of view.
Hence I think radio will always be an add-on.
Yup.

[windpig]

Another advantage I just learned is that a 580 EX2 as a master can control a 430 ex slave in 1/3 stop increments and down to 1/128 power whereas a 430 can't do that on its own.

I'm keeping my ST-E2 for simple low-light AF assist but i'll be going to a 580 EX2 master now, too.
How did you find this out?
Thanks
Ralph

[wernersl]

Doesn't that look a bit funny when you bounce the flash?

The problem with built-in radio is the different regulatory demands in different parts of the world. Light is easier to handle from that point of view.
Hence I think radio will always be an add-on.
imagine it can fold flat. anyway, my point is, they have an opportunity to corner the market. will they ever go that far. doubt it but one can dream right?

[TheHoff]

How did you find this out?
Thanks
Ralph

A thread on FredMiranda re: the new Radiopoppers PX system. Long discussion about what made the best master and that was one of the features of using a flash master instead of ST-E2... better control of the slaves.

[Titus213]

but imagine ETTL capability as well.

Imagine being in control of the lighting yourself.

[wernersl]

Imagine being in control of the lighting yourself.
i see this isnt going to end :rolleyes:. im out.

[avan]

from my experience with the ST-E2, you can fire wireless flash from everywhere, even flash in your back. You don't even need the turn the master in the direction of the slave in this case. That is inside, outside, it's free standing also, but less sensitive, if the slave are to much out of sight, the master don't see it.
First I was in doubt, looking at Canon flash booklet and position angle show in the user flash guide, but the saleman at the store make me a demonstration of how freely you can position the slave, I buy it already. Also the weight in top of the camera are not an issu anymore, the gadget weight close to nothing.

[TheHoff]

I do like that, in the manual diagrams, the subjects are all penguins.