Questions: Lens plate, Tension Control, Clamp & more

[Headshotzx]

Hey everyone! I am really excited about replacing all my manfrotto heads with Arca-Swiss compatible gear. Just got a Kirk BH-3 today and I really love it.

I've got a few questions about support options, however, so do help if you can!

1 - Lens plate for 70-200 2.8L IS. Which brand is better? Wimberley, Kirk, Markins, RRS? It seems like the Markins doesn't have safety stops (whatever that means - I'm sure it is going to be significant to me) so that probably is out of the list. I can get the wimberley p-20 locally. That's the one I should go for, right? Some people recommended longer lens plates for better adjustability. Comment?

2 - L plate. Kirk doesn't have one for the 400D + BG-E3 grip? As for the 5D mark 2, which one is better in your opinion? Kirk or RRS?

3 - Tension control on ballheads. I know this varies from user to user, but how tight do people set the tension when the ballhead is in use?

4 - Arca-Swiss compatible clamp. I'd like a small one for use with my Cotton Carrier / Rstrap. I can get markins and wimberley locally. Recommendations?

5 - Monopod head. I currently own a Manfrotto 234RC. it's going to be sold off soon for an A-S compatible quick release mount. I see kirk has an impressive mod of the 234 head: http://www.kirkphoto.com/Manfrotto_Swivel_tilt_head_with_Kirk_Quick_Release .html - how's that?

6 - Tripod length. The seller that sold me the Kirk BH-3 recommended that the tripod not have a center column for ultimate stability's sake. I kind of agree with this. So should my next tripod be one whereby when all legs extend + ballhead, the camera viewfinder is exactly at my eye level, or should I have a tripod that extends taller in case I need the height?


All replies are welcome!

Cheers,
Zexun

[tvphotog]

Tension on the ballhead depends on the size of the lens sticking over the fulcrum of the ballhead. If you're using a longer lens, the tension I set is higher than with a shorter lens.

The only difference between Kirk and RRS L plate is that the RRS fits tighter to the body along the left side of the body (the short side of the L.) To allow a cable release when the camera is vertical on the ballhead, you have to loosen the bottom nut and slide the plate outboard by 5mm. The adjustment nut allows a tighter fit of the L plate when not using it veritcally with a cable release.

The Kirk is 5mm wider and thicker on the left side of the camera, so you don't have to loosen it and extend in order to use the cable. However, it is bulkier and wider by 5mm when you're not in vertical on sticks.

Both are very well made and very cool.

[hfgarris]

1). Safety stops allow the clamp to be loosened for sliding adjustment, but prevent the plate from sliding clear out of the clamp at either end and dropping to the ground. The clamp has to be opened full to actually remove the plate from the clamp. I just use the simple RRS plate recommended for the 70-200 as I don't adjust it once it is on the tripod.

4). I only use screw type clamps on my R-Strap. I use the Markins QR clamp which came with a Q3T ballhead that I had modified with a RRS Lever Clamp on one of my R-Straps. It is nice because the locking knob is very short, right up against the plate. My other R-Strap has a Kirk 1" QR clamp which is small and light.

5) I used the simple and cheap Manfrotto tilt-head on my monopods with a RRS Lever QR clamp on them. Very small, light weight, and works fine with a monopod (no need for a ball head here). I like the lever QR for monopods rather than a screw type because I always seem to need 3 hands when mounting the camera on the monopod since you also have to hold the monopod. A tripod is stable on its own so you can hold the camera with one hand and screw the clamp with the other.

-howard

[Headshotzx]

Thanks for your replies, Jay and Howard!

@ Jay:

Noted on the tension. I was actually asking how much tension to use, like, having the setup above not move at all and requiring more force to rotate it about the head, or having the tension be slightly looser and requiring the main knob to be tightened whenever I don't want to use it.

As for the L plate, if I am going to be actively using a shutter remote, which would you recommend? The Kirk?

@ Howard:

Noted on the safety stops. Does that mean that if I wanted to use a lens plate with safety stops, I'll have to fully open the clamp to mount the setup from above, and not slide it in?

As for the clamp, yeah the markins clamp knob is very short. Seems like what I would want. Thanks!

As for the monopod tilt head, I was asking about which one is better - buying a 234 head and personally mounting a A-S compatible clamp on it, or buying the Kirk Monopod head (Modded 234 and Kirk QR clamp that is anti-twist in design)?


Once again, thanks for your replies! They were helpful.

Cheers,
Zexun

[tvphotog]

I set the tension so that the camera doesn't tilt over when the lens is placed over at about a 45 degree angle down. That tension will vary with the lens.

If you don't have to worry about packing the camera in a small bag where the Kirk will be a bit more bulky, get that one. On the other hand, you can always leave the RRS in the outboard position.

[Headshotzx]

Ah, thanks. I think I'll get the RRS one for my future 5D2, since I'll probably be getting the RRS L plate for 400D + grip (kirk doesn't show it on their site anymore). I'll get it together I guess.

So can anyone tell me if wimberleys are better than markins for their 70-200 lens plates?

[hfgarris]

Correct, the clamp must be fully opened to drop the camera/plate into it. With the RRS lever clamp, you basically have 2 positions: half way opened for adjustment, and full open for insertion/removal. It also has the advantage that it will not close fully if the plate isn't fully seated in clamp. Screw clamps can appear fully tight when they are actually closed on the edge of the plate, not the dovetail indention, and then suddenly pop out dropping your camera unexpectedly.

I was unaware of the Kirk monopod head and it looks interesting. It is less expensive than putting a RRS Lever QR clamp on a Manfrotto 234 although as I mentioned I like the lever release better on a monopod for quick release and re-clamp. For some reason the Kirk version of the 234 looks "taller" around the tilt pivot than the basic 234 head on the B&H site. I don't know how that would make the overall profile compare after the QR plates are mounted. The RRS/234 conversion was pretty easy and is fairly small.

-howard

[Headshotzx]

Ah. I see it now. I'll see which one I prefer, because my manfrotto used a lever for quick release.

Indeed the kirk monopod head mod looks slightly taller. But the fact that they factored in anti-twist without the need for the buyer to use loctite makes the entire setup seem better in my opinion.

[hfgarris]

The RRS lever is way different than the Manfrotto lever. Although I do like the Manfrotto spring loaded "drop in and lock" feature a lot. Too bad they don't do something similar with the A-S system.

-howard

[Lowner]

Zezun,

I have Markins and RRS lens plates as well as RRS camera plates. Both do the job.

However the RRS stuff has that "quality" feel, lacking in the Markins plates. I'm not saying the Markins stuff is inferior because it does the job its designed to do, its more a "looky, touchy, feely" thing.

My problem here in the UK with RRS kit is the highly ilegal scam/con being perpetrated by Royal Mail in cahoots with HM Customs and Excise. Because RRS don't sell via a UK agent we are forced to deal directly with RRS, which means paying twice for postage/packaging, once to RRS and again to Royal Mail.

RRS would do good business here if only they would agree to work with a UK distributer. At least one large photographic chain has approached RRS, and were refused.

[Headshotzx]

@ Howard: Yes I know that the RRS one is different from the Manfrotto one, but both use some kind of lever to get the camera free. I'm refering to getting used to the action or turning screw knobs versus the action of flipping a lever.

@ Richard: Haha, my name's Zexun not zezun but it's ok ;) I'll probably go look for some wimberley plates instead of markins plates so as not to get wallet busted by the shipping costs from RRS.


Questions answered:

1 - 70-200 plate: Get wimberley locally
2 - L plate: Get RRS L plate
3 - Tension control: Set tension so that camera doesn't move when pointed 45 degrees downwards
4 - Clamp for Cotton Carrier Insert / Rstrap: Get markins (cheapest)

5 - Monopod head: ?
6 - Tripod length choice: ?


Thanks for all your help so far!

Cheers,
Zexun

[hfgarris]

What I meant is that the smooth feel and action of the lever clamp on the RRS is vastly superior to that on the Manfrotto. For one thing, it swings nearly 180 degrees from full closed to open, and has a roller cam action which provides a "positive detent" feel at the 3 active positions (locked, adjust, open). Plus it will not lock in the closed position if the plate isn't fully and properly inserted (if you are using the recommended "tight tolerance" plates). Plus the lever tucks in to the mount when locked so as to not get in your way, poke you in the chin, or accidentally catch on something and open unexpectedly.

-howard

[Headshotzx]

Yeah I get what you mean. The RRS lever clamp is definitely a good clamp, but the added cost of buying that and spending the time and expertise in getting it fixed, versus getting another cheaper Markins screw-type for cotton carrier insert / Rstrap just puts me off.

[hfgarris]

Yeah, I would NOT suggest using a lever QR clamp on the R-Strap or the CC system. I think you would really want the screw type for that application!

When I bought my Markins Q3T head, I knew I was putting the RRS clamp on it so I ordered it without the loctite and assembly. If you ordered it without the clamp, it was only about $25 less, so I had them include the clamp and I then used it on my R-Strap so I wouldn't have to pay more to order one.

-howard

[sapro]

For lens plates, only RRS has a 1/4" mounting hole, it's very useful sometimes.

The Kirk monopod head is overpriced, you can buy the Manfrotto head, and put a quick release clamp on it, just don't forget to add an anti-rotating washer. RRS used to sell a kit to do the convertion, now they are selling their own monopod head, which I have, and really like it.

[Headshotzx]

@ Howard: I think we're confusing each other here, haha. What I meant was, I'll try using the screw type system for my ballhead for awhile and see if I like it. If I do, then I'll get a mini screw clamp for the Cotton Carrier / Rstrap. If I decide that I prefer the lever clamp, I'll order the lever clamp, wreck my brains in replacing the current clamp with the lever clamp, and then use my current kirk clamp for the CC/Rstrap. Sounds good, right?

@ Sapro: Oh, thanks for telling me bout the 1/4" hole. I know I don't really use it that often even on my own tripod ring other than for mounting a plate. What other uses d'you guys think there is? Haha.

As for the kirk tilt head, I don't know. A kirk 1.75" to 2" clamp goes for $55-60, and a new 234 goes for $22, and that doesn't include the washer or the fact that I need to DIY it.

[Headshotzx]

Also, I can choose to buy either the made-for-70-200 Wimberley P-20 lens plate, or the longer P-30 lens plate for better adjustability. However, the P-30 comes with 2 middle screws. Can one be removed?

[hfgarris]

Yeah, that sounds good. Your only problem may be that the ballhead clamp might have loctite securing it which can be a pain to break loose.

BTW: if you purchase a RRS lever plate, read carefully which model you are getting. They differ in the preparation of the mounting hole so be sure you get what you need. Some are just a countersunk hole for a 1/4-20 screw from above, some are threaded and dual mount (large 3/8-16 screw threads from below, smaller screw thru hole from above, and some are metric 6-1.0).

Also, the 234 Tilt mount has a reversible thumb screw for either 1/4" or 3/8" mounting if you use it. I just removed it and used a screw, a threaded adapter, and a lock-nut for mounting.

-howard

[Headshotzx]

Alright thanks. I might just get a 234 and wimberley / markins clamp locally, since the local camera store will fix it up for me. Will compare prices and see if it's worth getting the Kirk monopod head.

Any help on the P30 vs P20 issue? Post #17.

[hfgarris]

The screws can be moved to the extreme end of the slot where there is threading allowing them to be screwed out (after all, that is how they got them in there in the first place <g>).

The longer plate will allow you to achieve a more perfect center weight balance on the tripod at the expense of more bulk in the bag. It will only allow you to move the camera further from the mount point which might be an advantage if you have a very light weight (Rebel size) camera mounted. I have a RRS short plate which isn't much bigger than the original foot on the 70-200/2.8 and it balances with the 5D-II or 7D close enough for my tripod and use. With that lens I am usually shooting pretty much parallel to the ground (distant wildlife) so I don't worry much about balance.

It looks like the P20 is the recommended size for that lens:
http://www.tripodhead.com/products/lens-plates-main.cfm


-howard

[Headshotzx]

Ohh. Right, I didn't know how the screws got in haha. Thanks! I'll get the P-30 then, since someone is selling his at $20 off. I do use a 400D + grip at the moment. 5D2 next.

Cheers,
Zexun

[Lowner]

"BTW: if you purchase a RRS lever plate, read carefully which model you are getting. They differ in the preparation of the mounting hole so be sure you get what you need. Some are just a countersunk hole for a 1/4-20 screw from above, some are threaded and dual mount (large 3/8-16 screw threads from below, smaller screw thru hole from above, and some are metric 6-1.0)."

RRS honestly thought they knew best and changed my order without checking with me. Sent me the wrong version when I had ordered the right one! They were very apologetic but the hassle of returning it to them from the UK was more than I could bear. The moral is make sure THEY know you know!

[Headshotzx]

Ugh that's gotta suck.

Well anyway, I reserved the Wimberley P-30 from the local seller and I'll get it once I get my monthly allowance and stuff, or sell the 234RC head away.

[Headshotzx]

And while we're at it, which clamp is better for putting on the R strap or Cotton Carrier insert?

http://www.markins.com/2.0/eng/products/quickshoes/qr48.html ( Markins QR-48 )

or

http://www.tripodhead.com/products/qr-clamps-main.cfm ( Wimberley C-10 ) ?

[hfgarris]

Those two clamps are probably very similar and either would work equally well. You will need a threaded insert reducer (with loctite) for either of them to convert the 3/8" threaded hole to the 1/4"-20 thread for the R-Strap connector. I would probably select he smaller Markins one for less bulk. On one of my R-Straps I use an even smaller Kirk QRC-1 (1" or 25mm) to keep the bulk down. It already has a 1/4" threaded hole. It seems to be working fine so far...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555485-REG/Kirk_QRC_1_0_QRC_1_Quick_Release_Clamp.html#specif ications

-howard

[Headshotzx]

Ooo that's very nice. Works well for you eh? I'm not sure about the CC though, since the CC insert is quite large (it's a circle).

[r.morales]

My 35-350 calls for a p20 , but I liked the p30 better . I only use on gimbal head ,the little extra weight I don't even notice . I screwed a bogen 625 pancake head to a p30 plate [ p20 was to short without removing stop ] I hate changing QR plates on bottom of camera .
I use the 6 sided bugen on other heads .[ I like them better because the camera will sit flat on table . ] The acra / RRS / Markins type - the camea tips over ]
As for tightening ball head - I tighten till I can not move with little finger on hood .
I don't like markins - can not say why , Just don't " feel right " in my hand .