RAID vs 1 drive + 1 backup?

[kaitlyn2004]

I actually have no experience with RAID but I know it can have the added benefit of speed and a level of redundancy.

I am looking to buy two 1.5TB drives and am wondering if it's better to put them in RAID 1 (motherboard controller.. no dedicated raid card) or just use 1 drive and back up/copy to the 2nd drive regularly/automatically?

What are your thoughts on this?

[mike_d]

You still need a separate backup since RAID is not a replacement for backing up. If you're only going to buy two drives, have one be your main drive and backup often to the second. The backup drive should be outside of your computer and preferably stored off-site or at least in a fireproof box. You may also want to look into online backup. You can never have too many copies of your data.

[L.Morey]

Look up drobo .com very nice system

[5Dmaniac]

I would personally stay away from a Drobo system - no eSata connection and I do not like the fact that it is totally proprietary - if 10 years down the road something goes wrong and Drobo went out of business you will not be able to access your data anymore.

[mike_d]

I would personally stay away from a Drobo system - no eSata connection and I do not like the fact that it is totally proprietary - if 10 years down the road something goes wrong and Drobo went out of business you will not be able to access your data anymore.

That's why you back your data up.

I've only seen one Drobo in person and eSATA isn't necessary as it doesn't even push the limits of Firewire 400, much less FW800 or SATA. At least not on the setup I saw.

[viperstrike]

RAID is not a backup method, and should be treated as 2 separate projects. If you need speed, then you should look at RAID0. If you need reliability in the event of a hard drive crash, look at RAID1. A web search will give you the ups and downs of RAID.

If it was me and I set a strict budget for 2 x 1.5TB drives, one would be in my system, the other would be daily or weekly backups.

Hope that helps.

[hollis_f]

I've only seen one Drobo in person and eSATA isn't necessary as it doesn't even push the limits of Firewire 400, much less FW800 or SATA. At least not on the setup I saw.

Not sure I get what you're saying here. Are you saying that the Drobo units are inherently slow? Slow enough so that even snail-like Firewire 400 can keep up with them?

I think I'll stick with my external eSATA dock.

[hollis_f]

RAID is not a backup method, and should be treated as 2 separate projects. If you need speed, then you should look at RAID0. If you need reliability in the event of a hard drive crash, look at RAID1. A web search will give you the ups and downs of RAID.

As I understand it one of the big downers on relying on RAID1 for backup is that it doesn't protect against PEBKAC* errors. So if you accidentally delete a few GB of images that deletion is happily mirrored onto both drives.



*Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

[5Dmaniac]

[quote=hollis_f;9006770]As I understand it one of the big downers on relying on RAID1 for backup is that it doesn't protect against PEBKAC* errors. So if you accidentally delete a few GB of images that deletion is happily mirrored onto both drives.

Which is exactly what happened to me just a few days ago - it was my own stupidity, but I did erase a bunch of my files. Luckily I keep a daily backup of my drive and could go back and retrieve them.

About the Drobo speed - there is no arguing that Firewire (no matter which one) is slower than an eSata connection and no matter what -I would always stay away from proprietary solutions for long term storage requirements. I use a back-up and archive set-up with off-line and off-site storage which works great and does not rely on anything but regular disk management and non-proprietary back-up software.

[EJW]

I have RAID1 with 2-1TB mirrored backup drives. I also have a server with RAID1 at another location (Mom's house) that acts as an FTP backup location. Every 6 months I make a complete backup to optical storage and put the disks in the safe. All of the backups are automated and logged except for the optical. It may seem extreme, but once your data is gone, it's gone forever. I do not trust the quality control of hard drive manufacturers enough to put all my data in one or even two places.

[rklepper]

I would look at 3 drives. One for the data and 2 for backup. One of the backups should be kept off site.

[jacobsen1]

I'm looking at this right now myself. I really want a raid enclosure so it backs itself up automagically for me (I'm done with backing it up to another normal external HD myself or even with software thankyouverymuch). But the solution with it for idiotic mistakes is easy. For each pair of drives buy three. Swap out one of the two drives each week and let the raid enclosure rebuild the new drive. Store the THIRD drive off site. This way if you delete something or there's a fire the offsite third disk is safe and can be used to rebuild the entire thing.

but I'm struggling to choose between these 2:
OWC: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/RAID/Desktop/
drobo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/570430-REG/Data_Robotics_DR04DD10_4_Bay_Drobo_Robotic_Storage .html

basically, the OWC unit offers E-sata for speed as well as usb and fw options, but has no NAS option. The drobo offers "only" usb, fw400 and fw800. But I've also read the OWC's default setup won't work on a PC? And because I'll be initially setting this up on a mac, but want to be able to use it with a PC if I have to, that makes me wonder? Drobo is PC/Mac friendly out of the box but has the speed hit BUT has a NAS option (even slower but online)... both cost about the same.

[5Dmaniac]

jacobsen1 - better check online reviews and comments about the add-on NAS for he Drobo - it is supposed to slow down the unit pretty dramatically.

[gjl711]

RAID1 works great for an immediate backup but for the reasons already mentioned, it is not good for a permanent backup. RAID1 is nice in the event of a hard drive failure. All the data up to the point of failure is backed up. But it is still local to one machine and prone to any number of errors that could damage two drives. A lightning hit, fried power supply, inadvertent deleting and such. A separate, off machine backup is a smarter way. i like the three disk solution myself. My main machine is set up as a RAID1 but I have a second, backup machine. In addition, I also burn my images to archival DVDs which are stored at work.

[hfgarris]

I use RAID0 in my Mac Pro as the system disk for speed.

The data gets incrementally backed up hourly to an external RAID1 box with 2ea 1TB drives and the Mac "Time Machine" backup creates versioning in hourly, daily, weekly, monthly increments. If one drive in the backup fails, the other can rebuild it. The RAID controller also continuously compares the data on both drives for consistency and fixes problems if possible and displays error lights to notify me.

Then early each morning, a scheduled independent backup is done over my network to a server (WHS) in the basement which keeps 2 copies of all data on separate disks of the 4ea 1TB disks available. It sounds like a pain, but it all happens automatically in the background so I don't have to do anything.

I have had a drive failure in the RAID1 enclosure, and have had to recover files on several occasions, so I know first hand that it does work as expected!

-howard

[bohdank]

4 drives in 2 pairs (RAID1) in my PC. A hard drive dock (ESATA) for backups. That drive gets stored offsite (my car). Buying another drive soon and retiring the current drive I use in the dock for archival storage offsite.

Stopped doing DVD backup a loooong time ago. After pruning, I would need 10 disks to store the shots I took the last couple of weeks. Not something I want to spend time doing.

[mike_d]

Not sure I get what you're saying here. Are you saying that the Drobo units are inherently slow? Slow enough so that even snail-like Firewire 400 can keep up with them?

I think I'll stick with my external eSATA dock.

Yes, the one I saw wasn't even as fast as a standard FW400 drive. The advantage of a Drobo is that it protects you against a drive failure and you can keep expanding its capacity as needed without having to always migrate your data to a new drive. But performance doesn't appear to be its strong point.

[jacobsen1]

jacobsen1 - better check online reviews and comments about the add-on NAS for he Drobo - it is supposed to slow down the unit pretty dramatically.

no kidding, lan speed (especially wireless) can't touch firewire, but at least it's an option.

[scubthebub]

you could get this D-Link NAS (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=667) and have a raid 5 NAS that is hot swappable. You get a 1 more drive worth of space (#drives -1) so it's a little more efficient than raid 1.

[jacobsen1]

if you're suggesting that to me, no, NAS is not my priority. It might be nice later, but right now our wireless router is plugged into our modem in the closet, the iMac is on wireless, so it'd be too slow now. If/when I get a proper office, then yeah, NAS would kick ass (with a wired connection to the computer) but until then (and with only 1 computer) I'll take the drobo.

[CyberDyneSystems]

As mentioned, RAID 1 is a good addition to a back up solution, but it is not a good back up solution on it's own.
Mirroring occurs in real time and thus does not offer any kind of buffer for errors like an actual scheduled back up does.


This is how I differentiate between RAID 1 Vs. an external drive..
RAID 1 offers the ability to keep working when a single physical hard drive fails.
this is hugely advantageous to many,. to be able to keep working on a tight schedule..
Therefore I don't like to see people dismiss RAID 1 all together simply because of it's other short falls.

What is important is that the RAID 1 user understand those shortfalls and limitations and not rely on it for anything other than the ability to continue working in the event of a HD failure.

Think of RAID 1 as a second body.
Should one camera fail on a job sight... you have the other one to keep you going. No loss of work.
...But it won't help you if your camera bag with both cameras in it should fall into a lake while on a shoot.

Therefor I recommend a RAID 1 set up to anyone that does not like to suffer through downtime,..
In addition to one or more additional forms of incremental external back up.

[5Dmaniac]

As mentioned, RAID 1 is a good addition to a back up solution, but it is not a good back up solution on it's own.
Mirroring occurs in real time and thus does not offer any kind of buffer for errors like an actual scheduled back up does.


This is how I differentiate between RAID 1 Vs. an external drive..
RAID 1 offers the ability to keep 2working when a single physical hard drive fails.
this is hugely advantageous to many,. to be able to keep working on a tight schedule.. therefore I don;t like to people dismiss RAID 1 all together simply because of it's other short falls.

What is important is that the RAID 1 user understand the limitations and not rely on it for anything other than the ability to continue working in the event of a HD failure.

Think of RAID 1 as a second body. Should one camera fail on a job sight... you have he other one to keep you going. No loss of work.
...But it won't help you if your camera bag with both cameras in it should fall into a lake while on a shoot.

Therefor I recommend a RAID 1 set up to anyone that does not like downtime,..
In addition to one or more additional forms of external back up.

That makes total sense to me - good explanation.

[Damian75]

As mentioned, RAID 1 is a good addition to a back up solution, but it is not a good back up solution on it's own.
Mirroring occurs in real time and thus does not offer any kind of buffer for errors like an actual scheduled back up does.


This is how I differentiate between RAID 1 Vs. an external drive..
RAID 1 offers the ability to keep working when a single physical hard drive fails.
this is hugely advantageous to many,. to be able to keep working on a tight schedule..
Therefore I don't like to see people dismiss RAID 1 all together simply because of it's other short falls.

What is important is that the RAID 1 user understand those shortfalls and limitations and not rely on it for anything other than the ability to continue working in the event of a HD failure.

Think of RAID 1 as a second body.
Should one camera fail on a job sight... you have the other one to keep you going. No loss of work.
...But it won't help you if your camera bag with both cameras in it should fall into a lake while on a shoot.

Therefor I recommend a RAID 1 set up to anyone that does not like to suffer through downtime,..
In addition to one or more additional forms of incremental external back up.

Good description I have used all different forms of RAID over the years for there different benefits but never as my only form of redundancy as no backup solution is complete without offsite backup my current backup solution consists of a DROBO Pro connected via iSATA and an offsite FTP backed up nightly via script and for those concerned with speed let me say I have several friends in the commercial video field using theme with FW800 and have no problems even capturing HD video with them as for proprietary the benefits outweigh the risks anyone who has run out of space on a RAID and had to rebuild with bigger drives knows the headache.

[Richgsr]

+1 for the external hard drive dock. Best 30-40 bux you'll ever spend. Makes backing up your data a breeze and the eSata connections are great.

As people have already said, Raid is not meant for backup. It's meant more for performance, disaster recovery, or both.

[EJW]

Volume shadow copy service is also very useful for those accidental deletions. I set it up for 10min intervals. It also functions as an 'undo' for accidental saving of unwanted changes.