Quick Price Question..

[Racerman]

Quick question really, basically i'm doing some photos for a friend of mines mum who is the one that sorts the website out for a Mercedes Benz repair garage her husband has a large share in.
The work is of cars that have been damaged in crashes and following them round the garage to different parts of work being done taking the photos or this plus other images of work being carried out around the garage.
Currently i've said to her £10 an hour for my time that i've been at the garage and i'm including editing in that because there are hardly any to do basically basic settings and re-size then they're done.
That has been fine but now i've got to price how much the photos would be for her, they will be used on the website which is one of the most popular ways in which they get business therefore the volume of hits on the site will be quite high and just wondering what you all think on price per picture.
Remembering I can't exactly say like £300 per image (just picked a random number) because they'll be wanting like 8 - 10 images and be like "your only a student, i'm not paying you near 3 grand"
although I don't see how me being a student changes anything seen as it's a degree in commercial photography and they are getting images that they are happy with and i'm coming at times that is best for them when they call me, which most other people wouldn't

Thanks in advance for all your help

[tim]

Your post's confusing, what are you wanting to know? £10/hr seems very low. Working for friends is never a great idea, give her a flat rate including unlimited usage.

[WMS]

10 pounds an hour sounds inexpensive to me. However what has been charged has been charged. How many photos per hour do you deliver on an average? I would suggest using that number as a base line then adding to it, thus raising your overall price per hour (or better yet what is a minimum number of photos delivered per hour?)

For an auto body shop promotion is aimed at a local audience even if it does have world wide coverage. I think that you should keep this in mind when pricing your work.

By the way is this idea to change pricing structure yours or the shop owners (your clients?)

Wayne

[PhotosGuy]

give her a flat rate I disagree with that or you could be taking shots every hour for a week? A flat rate for a limited # of shots, over a certain period of time might work. Or $X per print + $Y for the web images, including unlimited rights.

[Karl Johnston]

10 quid an hour is worse than what they charge at sears. Sounds like she's nuts, I'd get away from her.

I'm being serious too..clients like that are people you don't need when there are plenty who will pay. Let her waste someone else's time. Where do you study, by the way? 3 grand is a bit up there, come to think of it, on th eother hand I can see why she wouldn't want to pay that...well it's relative; just what are you worth? I think you should go find one of your instructors and ask them (shouldn't they be teaching you this? not being a smartass or anything but really..you'd expect someone teaching you would know how to answer your question)

It's not a lost opportunity if there was no opportunity in the first place.

[tim]

I disagree with that or you could be taking shots every hour for a week? A flat rate for a limited # of shots, over a certain period of time might work. Or $X per print + $Y for the web images, including unlimited rights.

I meant a flat rate for a block of shooting time, processing time, and rights to use the images forever.

[PhotosGuy]

I meant a flat rate for a block of shooting time, processing time, and rights to use the images forever. I wondered about that. It would work for me. ;)

[Racerman]

Well currently out of 109 shots that i've done for them over like 8 Hours shooting time (most is just sat around waiting for them to get the cars ready) there are 7 that they have chosen to use.
She wants me to go back on Thursday to talk more about the upcoming shots she wants doing (like people around the workshop doing specific jobs)
But she also said "oh could you bring those files on a memory stick for me" which is obviously a BIG NO because i'm not exactly doing this as a favor it's paid work, and just because i'm 18 doesn't mean I will forget that especially seen as I have to pay my uni fees haha! so hence this post on how much I should be charging her.

Forget it's me and if it were you in the situation that has to sell these photos to her for use on the company website which probably won't be updated for at least say 3 years and there is 15 images lets say what would you charge for them ?

she did offer me at the start just to do it as one big payment and then it's all included maybe I should have done that from the start in reflection but at that point I didn't have an idea how long I would be spending there and how often etc.

[Nightstalker]

To me this is sounds like they intended a "work for hire" arrangement and you obviously did not agree the terms up front with her.

If she is paying you £10 per hour then she will no doubt expect the images to be included in that price - after all, she is only interested in the output. Don't forget that she will likely have no understanding of copyright as it pertains to photography.

You made £80 for a days work - better than most students will at McDonalds.

Personally when I shoot this sort of small commercial project I wrap it all up into to an hourly rate as it's not worth the hassle of trying to explain usage rights to most people.

[Racerman]

well not really a day that was over like 5 days here and there whenever she rang but I can see where your coming from

[Karl Johnston]

Fact is you can get a lot more...I dunno what the standards are over there but for minimal experience acommercial shooter over here is charging 1000$ a day with limited rights included and basic processing (same as you)..10 quid an hour is 17 $ an hour over here, and if someone with no experience is getting 120$ an hour..well you get the picture.

If you're going to charge - charge something worth it. Or do it for free for experience

[Racerman]

someone with no experience is getting 120$ an hour
wow re-thinking my price now haha! thanks for that
yeah the guy that runs my commercial photography course was meant to be going over how to price yourself like last week but been off with swine flu we think so otherwise I would have just asked him
whereas I thought i'd get a better response here which I have thanks :)

[sherman111]

I think you have set yourself up here. You have said £10 an hour for your time and included PP in that rate. Is that correct? What you have not mentioned is that you have supposedly made a statement to her that there will be a cost per image? As she has mentioned 'bring along a stick with the photos on', indicates she is not expecting the above statement or to pay anymore than agreed.

One way to get round this is to overlay your signature/name on the photos and if she wants the images free from your sig you will of course release the photos for the commercial application with a contract (which you should have done at the outset).

Pricewise; you need to make it a stepping charge. Say 10@ £500, 20 @ £900 or something similar. Going over a grand plus an hourly rate will now seem greedy and unprofessional. By the way have you had any payment to date?

Next time I am sure you will be as cautious with the business end of things as you will be in taking the photos.

Good luck and post the shots she doesn't want.

[Racerman]

to be honest with you normally when i'm doing something like this everything is done before I start and they understand everything. Just the way this was started then nothing was locked down, when I first came to get paid when she was doing the rest of the wages for that time period, she was like "what am I even giving you per hour? it was me that said £10 because at the time I thought oh that'll be fine (having no idea on costings within the industry for students and such because usually I just get my money through the sales of prints, this was my first time in actual hired capacity)
i'll have to change that for future jobs now I know a bit more
but thanks for the stepping charge idea will use that :)

[Nightstalker]

Fact is you can get a lot more...I dunno what the standards are over there but for minimal experience acommercial shooter over here is charging 1000$ a day with limited rights included and basic processing (same as you)..10 quid an hour is 17 $ an hour over here, and if someone with no experience is getting 120$ an hour..well you get the picture.

If you're going to charge - charge something worth it. Or do it for free for experience

For commercial work I usually charge £75 per hour but I also do some work with the motor trade for considerably less than that. I get a poor rate but the work is regular.

At the end of the day all of the fancy pricing strategies that are employed are basically worthless. The reality is that the customer sets the price they are prepared to pay in their own mind - if you are in excess of this then you just won't get the work.

I've tried fancy pricing strategies myself but have on several occasions come up against "we will pay £X for the images - do you want the job or not?".

I'd love to say that I've been true to my principles and said no - but the reality is I have to eat and £X (or whatever the figure actually is) is generally better than the £0 you will get if you turn down the work.

[Nightstalker]

to be honest with you normally when i'm doing something like this everything is done before I start and they understand everything. Just the way this was started then nothing was locked down, when I first came to get paid when she was doing the rest of the wages for that time period, she was like "what am I even giving you per hour? it was me that said £10 because at the time I thought oh that'll be fine (having no idea on costings within the industry for students and such because usually I just get my money through the sales of prints, this was my first time in actual hired capacity)
i'll have to change that for future jobs now I know a bit more
but thanks for the stepping charge idea will use that :)


I really do wish you well with your chosen strategy - I just hope they don't laugh too loud when you present it to them.

Please let us know how this develops.

[PhotosGuy]

Let's not forget how this thread started. "...some photos for a friend of mines mum who is the one that sorts the website out for a Mercedes Benz repair garage".
We aren't talking advertising rates for Mercedes here?

[Karl Johnston]

For commercial work I usually charge £75 per hour but I also do some work with the motor trade for considerably less than that. I get a poor rate but the work is regular.

About the same rate as here then considering the current exchange rates.
75.00 GBP

=

131.299 CAD

United Kingdom Pounds Canada Dollars 1 GBP = 1.75065 CAD 1 CAD = 0.571216 GBP
www.xecurrency.com

Anyone know any high end commercial shooters? I'd be interested in knowing what they charge, just out of curiosity.

[PhotosGuy]

Anyone know any high end commercial shooters? I'd be interested in knowing what they charge, just out of curiosity. Commercial shooters where? Back then I would have passed on this job because my first question would have been, "What's your budget for this work?", & my $650 per day would have been way outside her expectations. I might have passed it on to an assistant, or taped the settings on her camera & told my friends mom to shoot them herself? ;)

See ssim's comment in post #3
How much to charge for photographing jewelry? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=301074)

Sticky: For your consideration (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61210)
7 pages of comments!

If you knew then, what you know now... (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=555281)

[Alleh]

Just do it for the experience? Try and create some good images. Hey maybe even take the little amount of money you already quoted.

[Karl Johnston]

Dunno about where, just anywhere in general I guess

[bigrob]

I bet the rate the garage charges is something like £150 / hour.

Maybe you should have charged half that and then given her a release to use the images on their website for a set period (e.g. 3 years).

I know that the above doesn't realy help you in your current situation though.

[shiato storm]

You can't get much for £10 these days...just think for a moment about your images, do you expect them to come out as 'not very good' or 'average' or 'very good' (i.e. professional looking). Be realistic about the value of your work, the thing so many paying customers fail to appreciate is good images cost money. Not because what they get at the end of it all is all they get but you've put all your experience to use to create the images they want...
Add another 0 on that hourly rate at least and charge on top for image use.

[Racerman]

well i'm in the situation now where i've already said £10 (stupidly and i've learnt from that don't worry haha!)
and she's paid me like 2 months ago when I was last in for the 8 hours work I had done.
What can I do now though regarding it I mean I feel a bit wierd going back and being like "oh yeah since 2 months ago i've gone up" although I could see where I could do that seen as i've got more equipment and now doing a degree in commercial photography so understand say lighting a lot better now

spoke to my tutor and he suggested for something like this say £50 call out, £25 an hour shooting and £10 an hour dead time when i'm just waiting around might implement that?

thoughts?

[bigrob]

That has been fine but now i've got to price how much the photos would be for her.

Did she understand that the £10/hr was just for shooting and editing?

[Racerman]

Honestly I don't know, all that was ever discussed was the shooting of them she never asked how much the images will be at the end of it so i'll be addressing that tomorrow when I meet with her again, i'll be writing up some T's and C's later on :)

[bigrob]

I suspect that she thought, she is paying you to take the photos. She then gets them on a CD or memory stick and can use them as she sees fit.

Why would she have thought that she would have to pay any extra?

I wonder if it's a good idea to have a contract written up to take with you. You can then fill in the blanks in pen. You will need to be calm and collected and explain carefully that the £10 was a shooting and editing charge & that you now need to discuss the licensing fee.

If you handle it well, you should be okay.

Maybe explain it something like this. When I bring my Mercedes in for repair, there are two costs. A labour charge and a parts charge. She has paid you for 8 hours of your labour & now you need to discuss the parts charge (i.e. the licensing charge). Also need explain in your contract that you retain the copyright.

[Racerman]

yeah exactly what I was going to do with the contract,
and thanks for the repair line i'll use that haha! ;)
let you know how everything goes ^_^