Family Portrait Package?

[nickbunyun]

Hey guys!

I have been asked lately for some packages quotes.

I wanna get my "Family Portrait" package established.
Looking at other websites I estimated around this...
$150 - 1 hour session. (however many pictures + editing time)
+ Cost of prints.

I have been asked if I would give them permission to make their own copies. Well, how do people make money?

Do you guys charge an extra fee for printing rights ?

also, where do you guys make your printing online ?

[sapearl]

General discussion here regarding selling the high rez digital file for their printing convenience has been an amount that is approximately 4-5 times the cost of a print. You have to somehow calculate your lost print sales and build that in.

For pro printing I use a place in Canton Ohio called Buckeye Color lab. They do all my wedding and event work. Others use Millers and Whitehouse. Many use Smugmug, Flicker, etc. - Stu

[tim]

The traditional portrait model is a low up front fee, say free to $200, then you charge for prints. You might charge $50 for a 6x4, $100 for an 8x10, $500 for a 20x30, and files aren't available. An average portrait sale for a good portrait photographer will be $1000 - $3000. There are sales techniques around this, including the sales meeting (only time they can buy) where images are shown on a big screen, etc.

You can do it for $150 if you want to, but you should be aware of how things usually work.

[Pearlallica]

wow, Tim. Those are big bucks. As a photographer on the side, I wouldn't mind getting to a place where I can pull in a few of those earnings. I recently did a family session (friends of friend's) and charged $50 for a two hour session. I ended up profiting about $250 for prints that were done as large as 8x10. I was told I under-charged. I had no idea. I must have put a good 10 hours of intense post-processing, making sure to that the misses looked her absolute best (the spender and choice maker). It was my 1st family session, so I figured since I was entering uncharted territory they deserved a price that reflected my honest experience in this area. The session was actually a huge success and they ended up with some incredible stuff that has landed me with all kinds of referrals.

I know that there are folks out there willing to spend those kind of dollars for pictures (my parents spent 2 grand on our family pics back in the day) But like my parents, they often go to the best in town and are more than confident to dish out the dollars. The proof is in the portfolio and reputation. Gotta build that from the ground up. With experience will come confidence in your skills and thus confidence to set your prices higher and higher.

I hate when people ask for digital copies. I recently did a wedding reception and we signed a contract up front which stated exactly what they would be receiving for the price point they wanted. After the wedding they were ecstatic with all of the pictures that they had received and raved at how perfectly I captured their evening. The family requested a slideshow which would allow them to have a "digital version" of every single picture that was in their proofs... all 322 pictures. I told them they can have a DVD copy for $249.99 or a blue-ray version for $499.99. That was a steal since HD resolution matched that of 4"x6" prints. She got back to me and said all of her family said the price was too high and declined. She also said her primary ceremony photographer gave her a CD with all of the original digitals and that she wanted one too. Ouch! I charged her $400 for the coverage/post-processing and now she wanted to bypass the pay-per-print phase by having free digitals. What gets me is that she paid 4 grand for her wedding dress. She eventually got back to me and ordered 60 bucks worth 4x6's - talk about a blow. Why do I always attract the cheap-skates!!??

Sorry, I am rambling here... I guess I needed a space to vent and share what to look out for. Beware of cheap-skates! (not much you can do about I'm afraid)

[tim]

The problem with referrals from doing things cheap is you get people expecting cheap work. Taking into account the 12 hours work and cost of prints you probably made about $15/hr, not taking into account equipment, insurance, etc. Sometimes working free's better.

The old business model isn't necessarily the way to go. I'm considering a flat fee covering session and a reasonable number of prints, with extra prints at traditional prices. I find portraits more difficult than weddings for some reason.

[cdifoto]

$3,000 in sales isn't really common around here. People would feel screwed if they paid that, no matter who was doing the photography. Saying a good 'tog can pull that in is like the infomercials showing people who lost 500lbs on the pills they're pushing, while putting "actual results may vary" in teeny tiny text at the bottom of the screen.

$500 is more realistic in my area.

Having said that, I won't do a 2 hour session for a fifty. I typically spend half that in gas.

[Pearlallica]

I find portraits more difficult than weddings for some reason.

Interesting. It goes to show that everybody's different. I have a friend that has been pro for about 8 years now and she earns well into the 6 figures with her wedding/portrait business. She is phasing out of wedding because she finds it very labor our intensive compared to portraits. Apparently she can profit about the same in portraits that she does doing weddings, hence the phase-out. If I wasn't expecting a third child on the way I'd easily convert our third and last bedroom into a studio - then I'd follow in her footsteps. I find portraits much more comfortable to do since I have so much more control than the always unpredictable changes weddings throw at you.

$15/hr may have been cheap for that session, but I seem to recall it payed my electricity bill, so I'm not complainin' ;)

I charged $200 for my 1st wedding (friend's) for coverage/PP/digitals and that's gone up 10x since then... I use the little "swiss mountain-climber character" from the price-is-right game as my model so-to-speak.

[tim]

$3,000 in sales isn't really common around here. People would feel screwed if they paid that, no matter who was doing the photography. Saying a good 'tog can pull that in is like the infomercials showing people who lost 500lbs on the pills they're pushing, while putting "actual results may vary" in teeny tiny text at the bottom of the screen.

$500 is more realistic in my area.

Having said that, I won't do a 2 hour session for a fifty. I typically spend half that in gas.

It is very area dependant. In Brisbane, Australia, you can book a wedding photographer for between $100 and $20,000, and the images aren't always the factor that determines price.

Interesting. It goes to show that everybody's different. I have a friend that has been pro for about 8 years now and she earns well into the 6 figures with her wedding/portrait business. She is phasing out of wedding because she finds it very labor our intensive compared to portraits. Apparently she can profit about the same in portraits that she does doing weddings, hence the phase-out. If I wasn't expecting a third child on the way I'd easily convert our third and last bedroom into a studio - then I'd follow in her footsteps. I find portraits much more comfortable to do since I have so much more control than the always unpredictable changes weddings throw at you.

$15/hr may have been cheap for that session, but I seem to recall it payed my electricity bill, so I'm not complainin' ;)

I charged $200 for my 1st wedding (friend's) for coverage/PP/digitals and that's gone up 10x since then... I use the little "swiss mountain-climber character" from the price-is-right game as my model so-to-speak.

There's more than one successful business model!

[cdifoto]

It is very area dependant. In Brisbane, Australia, you can book a wedding photographer for between $100 and $20,000, and the images aren't always the factor that determines price.
Isn't it funny how that works?

If I moved three hours east, I could make 3-4x what I make right now. But I'd also have 3-4x the bills. :lol:

[Pearlallica]

Isn't it funny how that works?

If I moved three hours east, I could make 3-4x what I make right now. But I'd also have 3-4x the bills. :lol:

;) which is precisely how my friend has the income the she does. And you are correct - I believe she payed 3x more for her home than we did, and it isn't significantly more special.

[nickbunyun]

Do you guys give the CD with "printing rights" ? or without?

[cdifoto]

A CD is useless without printing rights, unless you're selling 600px images for web use only. I don't sell anything I wouldn't buy - and I wouldn't buy a CD I can't really use.

Having said that, I don't "give" the CD at all...they have to pay a fair sum for it.

[tim]

For portraits I don't offer a CD of all the images, but once they have a print of a certain size they can buy the file.

[Karl Johnston]

I sell a high resolution DVD with license to reproduce infinitely through another printer of their choice for 100$

Though I'm new at portrait photography and I'm pricing myself accordingly to the competition based on my level...so there's not much room to compete.

[tim]

I sell a high resolution DVD with license to reproduce infinitely through another printer of their choice for 100$

Though I'm new at portrait photography and I'm pricing myself accordingly to the competition based on my level...so there's not much room to compete.

Wow. How do you expect to make a living when you give away your work pretty much for free?

[sapearl]

That's REALLY LOW Karl - especially since what we've seen of your work so far indicates solid quality. You start pricing the disk like that now and people will always expect it at that price. Leave it out for the time being and see what happens later.

I sell a high resolution DVD with license to reproduce infinitely through another printer of their choice for 100$

Though I'm new at portrait photography and I'm pricing myself accordingly to the competition based on my level...so there's not much room to compete.

[ssnxp]

Another extremely informative thread! I'm not getting into wedding photography soon (Well, I have 2 weddings this month, but not as a paid shooter) but I'm slowly starting on portraiture.

I was planning on doing "free" sessions and only charging for prints/digital copies. I think I read in another thread to offer a "limited time discount" or something along those lines, as to not devalue my work.

Now I'm thinking it'd be wiser just to practice on family members, or people I wouldn't normally charge anyways, like my girlfriend.

[cdifoto]

How much editing are you doing to the $100 CD? I couldn't afford to do much more than shoot & burn...and I could never lower myself to that level.

To put out a quality CD, you're talking a day minimum. Even with a session every day of the year, your income would only be $36,500 BEFORE taxes and costs of doing business.

[nickbunyun]

So I was thinking since its my first family shoot that im getting paid for....
Would.. $100 an hour session + $200 CD with printing rights.

Mainly what I have in mind is to do this for portfolio and to start getting my name out abit...
but than again I don't wanna be the guy that works cheap.

What kind of package do you guys recommend here.. they are the in-laws of a close friend..

[sapearl]

hmmm.... tough call. Sure he is a close friend, but they are HIS inlaws, not yours.

.....What kind of package do you guys recommend here.. they are the in-laws of a close friend..

[Pearlallica]

Wow. How do you expect to make a living when you give away your work pretty much for free?

Hi Tim. How goes it. Well.. your Q was directed at the other guy, but here's my take,

I definitely don't do this full-time. I'd never take the risk of entering the photography business scene with so much competition during a recession. I have 4 jobs and this is just a means to earn disposable income which I can use to buy the "toys" I am so involved in.

I figure if I spend 15K on cool photography gear which I can use to take pictures of my kids (my primary interest of subject matter) the least I can do is find a way to earn it back (and then some) using the education I earned. (graphic design, some photo courses, marketing)

If the phone stopped ringing & I was without any gigs for 2 months, it would be no skin off my back. It's the beauty of having a night job where I get paid to sleep and use my days for anything I chose. :P

[Pearlallica]

How much editing are you doing to the $100 CD? I couldn't afford to do much more than shoot & burn...and I could never lower myself to that level.

lol - well... personally, I love post processing. I mean, I lovvvve it. Most people aren't like me. I became a photoshop guru at back in the 90's when version 3.0 was out. I was born an artist so photoshop is my digital art playground. I've spent 20, 30, even 40 hours post processing just for the pure enjoyment of it. A lot of the guys in here are just starting out using photography as a paid service. Most are learning on their own. Wedding gigs are like school assignments. You don't expect a lot. But the experience and growth of one's portfolio becomes the real compensation.

Actually, I have a friend that was charged well over a thousand bucks for a "shoot 'n burn" (cd) wedding package. No edits were made, and two years later, the bride has yet to print any of the pictures because she finds them completely uninteresting. She took a liking to my post-process and now I've got a stack of 1000 pictures to sort through and edit. A huge time suck for most people - a real treat for me! I'll probably throw on some movie network video on my second monitor and go nuts with the new Lightroom 3 beta on my main display. Doesn't get better than that!

Here's a pic I put 2 hours into just for the enjoyment of it. I didn't have to do it, just wanted to play with the photoshop lens-blur filter and a whole lot of masking/layering.

http://www.intothenew.ca/images/jon/IMG_2300b.jpg

[tim]

Hi Tim. How goes it. Well.. your Q was directed at the other guy, but here's my take,

I definitely don't do this full-time. I'd never take the risk of entering the photography business scene with so much competition during a recession. I have 4 jobs and this is just a means to earn disposable income which I can use to buy the "toys" I am so involved in.

I figure if I spend 15K on cool photography gear which I can use to take pictures of my kids (my primary interest of subject matter) the least I can do is find a way to earn it back (and then some) using the education I earned. (graphic design, some photo courses, marketing)

If the phone stopped ringing & I was without any gigs for 2 months, it would be no skin off my back. It's the beauty of having a night job where I get paid to sleep and use my days for anything I chose. :P

"To pay for my toys" is one of the worst reasons to turn pro!

[Pearlallica]

"To pay for my toys" is one of the worst reasons to turn pro!

lol - yeah, I can see myself 1st week in a business course trying to sell the prof' on that idea. And just to add, I personally have little desire to go pro. I had the entrepreneurial flame ignite within a while back... once I actually began researching the true breadth of business at its core, I knew it was an area better suited for the next guy. I'll keep things at the hobby "with benefits" level.