Make camera wait for external flash

[valores]

Hello,

I own a Canon 500D and a Speedlite 430 EX II. Both work fine in general.

The thing that annoys me, is that when I press the trigger, the camera takes a shot even if the flash isn't ready. I'd like the camera to wait for the flash, no matter what.

The problem is both in continuous shooting and in single shooting mode.

On the other hand, when using the internal flash, the camera waits for it. When using timer (and hence multiple shots) the camera waits for the external flash between the shots.

I realize the logic saying that if I pressed the trigger, I want to shoot NOW, but on the other hand, I also want to know that if the camera took a shot, it was the way I expected.

Please tell me I'll need to go to menu X and change Y...

Thanks in advance,
Bill

[valores]

Hmmm... I suppose this is the forum telling me to dream on...

[jeromego]

If in continuous mode, you need to give the flash time to recycle.

[Titus213]

The little flash icon in the viewfinder???

[valores]

Thanks for your answers. :)

Yup, I know about the little flash mark in the viewfinder. But as I mentioned, the camera does work like I want when I use the internal flash (that is, no shoot until flash is ready).

I'd like to focus on my subject when I shoot, not on whether I have the flash ready or not. It's so annoying to find out later on that half the images turned out pitch dark because I didn't pay attention. :(

[bobbyz]

I didn't pay attention. :(

look here for the solution.

[yogestee]

The flash is sending you subliminal messages to slooooowwww down..

[AxxisPhoto]

The flash is sending you subliminal messages to slooooowwww down..

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-068.gif You have to wait for the batteries to recharge the flash.

[Titus213]

Buy a new flash and one of these - http://www.flashzebra.com/8AACellBatteryPacks/index.shtml

I would strongly suggest a new 580EX II because it has overheating protection and it sounds like that might be a problem.

[RPCrowe]

However, why don't you just wait until the flash is charged before you trip your shutter?

[valores]

However, why don't you just wait until the flash is charged before you trip your shutter?
Hmmm... It looks like I have my own habits.

When I photo a person, there is no such thing as taking a single shot. The camera is set on continuous, and I'll shoot three-four shots at a time. Reason: In case my subject blinks in the wrong moment. This simple method has proven to be a saver many times.

If the flash wants some time to recharge, fine. I still want my three shots. What I get is one shot with flash, two without. The flash charges pretty quickly, but the camera is quicker.

A non-trained subject is likely to move a second or two after a flash. Normal people don't expect a multi-shot. Waiting for the flash icon to appear makes the whole process cumbersome, and obviously gives me one more thing on my mind.

The great irony is that it works like I want with the internal flash, so obviously someone thought it's a good idea to let the camera wait. It beats me why it doesn't with a Canon flash, which was on the market before the camera.

[bobbyz]

Bill,

Put flash on low power setting or bump up the ISO if using eTTL and use external power pack. But be careful, you don't want to burn your flash from overheating.

[CliveyBoy]

Buy a new flash and one of these - http://www.flashzebra.com/8AACellBatteryPacks/index.shtml

I would strongly suggest a new 580EX II because it has overheating protection and it sounds like that might be a problem.
Agreed. And the 580EX II has a custom function which enables the flash to fire at whatever charge it has, without being "ready". TriCoast Photography uses this setting as standard to produce their distinctive style.

[mkett]

I understand what you want to achieve but I don,t know if there is a CF for it.
Nobody seems to be reading what you are really saying. The camera will not shoot if the internal(built in flash) is not ready and you want this option with the external shoe mount or off camera flash.

I can tell you I shoot with 430ex's off camera usually one is set at about1/2 power the other 1/4 and I can fire off several shots in a row because it recycles fast when using a lower power level.

As far as the original post I just don;t think it is possible.

[CliveyBoy]

I understand what you want to achieve but I don,t know if there is a CF for it.
[Restraint Mode]

580EX II Manual, p27:
"C.Fn 06
"Quickflash with continuous shot
0 Disabled
1 Enabled"

See also "TriCoast Guide to Flash" just published. It is atrociously edited, but it give a good insight into how Tricoast produce their signature photo art. Add it to the styles from Strobist and Neil van Niekerk.

P12 talks of CF #8/#6, with a rant on camera bodies working at 5 - 9 shots per second and CF cards to match, and a flagship flash that works at 2 to 20 seconds.

[/Restraint Mode];)

[valores]

OK, I think I've got the point. My conclusions are:

(1) It's most likely that what I wanted is not possible with a 500D. Quickflash is a nice direction, but not the solution. As I see it, if the light isn't tuned, the shot goes down the toilet. The lack of possibility to ask the camera to wait for a full charge, so all shots are correctly lit, is the camera's design flaw, as I see it.

(2) There is little to zero demand for what I ask for, so no wonder Canon didn't bother to implement it. That's a surprise in itself. It appears like I'm the only looking for those two protection shots.

Thank you all for responding. At least I know I haven't missed anything.

Bill.

[runninmann]

I am having some problem following your logic.

On the one hand, you say you shoot continuously to get three shots in case your subject blinks. On the other hand, you say you want the shutter to not trip unless the flash is ready.

Well, if that were the case, you wouldn't be able to take the three shots continuously. So, just don't shoot in continuous mode.

It seems to me that what you really want is faster recycling of the flash. A couple of solutions or workarounds have been proposed.

I don't see this as a "design flaw". I know I'd be upset if I pressed the shutter button and the camera "decided" that I shouldn't be allowed to take the shot. In my opinion, that would be a design flaw!

[CliveyBoy]

OK, I think I've got the point. My conclusions are:

(1) It's most likely that what I wanted is not possible with a 500D.
Bill.
Sorry, but my post was not directed to you, but to mkett.

The point is that Canon HAS already provided for what you want. It is not a camera function. It is a flash function - of the 580EX and 580EX II only

[blackshadow]

Agreed. And the 580EX II has a custom function which enables the flash to fire at whatever charge it has, without being "ready". TriCoast Photography uses this setting as standard to produce their distinctive style.

I went to check out the TriCoast website but closed it as soon as the !@#$ing music started up. I won't be going back.

[CliveyBoy]

I went to check out the TriCoast website but closed it as soon as the !@#$ing music started up. I won't be going back.
Sorry about that - I only rarely turn on the amp so would not have known.

Their specialty age group is 16-25, so perhaps its fits.

[SkipD]

When I photo a person, there is no such thing as taking a single shot. The camera is set on continuous, and I'll shoot three-four shots at a time. Reason: In case my subject blinks in the wrong moment. This simple method has proven to be a saver many times.NO portable flash unit that I have ever seen, either built-in or external to the camera, is going to let you operate the camera in machine-gun mode and keep up with that pace at full power. All require at least a little time to recycle.

If you are VERY close to the subject (thus requiring a very small percentage of the flash unit's capacity) and if you have the proper flash unit, you may get it to operate at the machine-gun pace for a short time. Keep that up, though, and you can burn out the flash unit.

Put your camera into single-shot mode and learn to time your shots to get the best composition and subject's expression, etc. You can always take two or three shots of a person, but you will have to understand what the flash needs for a minimum spacing between the shots.

[yogestee]

Hmmm... It looks like I have my own habits.


If the flash wants some time to recharge, fine. I still want my three shots. What I get is one shot with flash, two without. The flash charges pretty quickly, but the camera is quicker.




I think you want Porsche performance out of a VW Beetle..

There is nothing you can do about it but change your shooting technique..

[40Dude6aedyk]

As posted above, get a 580 speedlite, set quickflash, and adjust exposure so less than 1/2 flash output is used per flash. If you use freshly charged batteries or an external power pack, then you achieve what you want: properly exposed multi-shots with flash.

[Titus213]

Or perhaps your true calling is video?:D

[DDCSD]

Sorry, but my post was not directed to you, but to mkett.

The point is that Canon HAS already provided for what you want. It is not a camera function. It is a flash function - of the 580EX and 580EX II only


No, it doesn't exist, so your frustration and restraint should be directed at yourself for not paying attention to what the OP was asking.

The OP doesn't want the flash to fire regardless if is properly charged or not, he wants the camera's shutter to not trip unless the flash is completely charged.


OP, I can see the usefulness of this, but many people would rather have the shutter trip even if the exposure won't be correct than to not get anything.

[williejr]

OK, I think I've got the point. My conclusions are:

(1) It's most likely that what I wanted is not possible with a 500D. Quickflash is a nice direction, but not the solution. As I see it, if the light isn't tuned, the shot goes down the toilet. The lack of possibility to ask the camera to wait for a full charge, so all shots are correctly lit, is the camera's design flaw, as I see it.

(2) There is little to zero demand for what I ask for, so no wonder Canon didn't bother to implement it. That's a surprise in itself. It appears like I'm the only looking for those two protection shots.

Thank you all for responding. At least I know I haven't missed anything.

Bill.

I'm sorry, but what your asking your flash and your camera to do is just NOT possible when you are on "continuous shot" mode, because of the refresh rate of your FLASH... Full stop. Nikon doesn't make a camera like that either, so there is no design flaw.

Since you can not plug an external battery source to your 430EX II, you will have to wait the 3-7 secs for you flash to recycle. If you continue to be stubborn and shoot in continous shot mode and think you don't have to wait, your pictures will not be exposed properly.

Look to upgrading to the 580EX II or Quantum Flash and get a quantum turbo battery pack. You will be able to acheive what you want.

[valores]

Hello again.

I've already got the answer I was looking for, but it looks like a few here don't understand what I was asking. So just for the sake of getting things clear:

I did NOT expect the flash to keep in pace with the camera's continuous shooting or keep in pace at all. I'm actually happy with the flash' recharge rate.

Neither do I expect the camera's default to be "wait for flash" since many would mistakenly consider the camera slow or nonresponsive.

But if the rule is that an image without full flash is worthless, and I want the camera to go as fast as possible given the circumstances, wouldn't it be nice to just press the trigger and hold it, and let the camera go?

The lack of this option is what I called a design flaw.

[yogestee]

The lack of this option is what I called a design flaw


My Moto Guzzi LeMans speedo indicated 250kmh but all I could get out of it was 210kph.. Was this a design flaw??

[CliveyBoy]

If the flash wants some time to recharge, fine. I still want my three shots. What I get is one shot with flash, two without. The flash charges pretty quickly, but the camera is quicker.

I did NOT expect the flash to keep in pace with the camera's continuous shooting or keep in pace at all. I'm actually happy with the flash' recharge rate.

You want three shots per second as a delay of two seconds may lose the optimum shots, but you are happy with a two-second full-charge rate, and you do not want to take the under-exposed but not black shots and process them from raw if you set the custom function appropriately.

Perhaps a newly-developed technology will give us all a solution to this problem, but in the meantime we have to work with what we have.

My technique, outside during the day, has been to stay on one-shot and release the shutter button and press immediately. The camera waits for the completion of the previous shot and the recharge of the flash before taking the next shot. This way I am getting multiple shots as quickly as the flash and camera can produce them. Outside, the flash is only set for slight fill and so I get two shots fully lit per second, and a sore finger.

I have just tested this in almost total dark to draw more on the flash, and can still get 1 shot per second for 6 seconds. Even when focus-assist was required it produced 7 shots at an average of 1.5 seconds. All the shots in these tests were similarly exposed. My first tests were rather slow, until I realised that the flash was set to master - turning this off made a big difference in repeat performance.

This suggests that there already is a way to get what you want - repeat shots at the fastest possible rate - using one-shot and a fast finger. Oh, and a fast card.

[valores]

My technique, outside during the day, has been to stay on one-shot and release the shutter button and press immediately. The camera waits for the completion of the previous shot and the recharge of the flash before taking the next shot.
I'm glad for you that your camera does that. My 500D doesn't. I just checked: Camera in single shoot mode, finger goes off and on the trigger immediately, camera shoots, sometimes with flash, sometimes without it.

What you describe would be the solution had it worked on my camera. What's your equipment?

[valores]

My Moto Guzzi LeMans speedo indicated 250kmh but all I could get out of it was 210kph.. Was this a design flaw??
I'm not very sure what you wanted to tell me here, but I'll answer by the same coin: If your Moto Guzzi had all technical capabilities to reach 250kmh, but didn't allow you that speed just because some on-board software didn't support it, I would consider that a design flaw, yes.

And I'm not talking about the difference in terms of safety (The flash won't kill me, I hope).

[CliveyBoy]

I currently have a 50D and 580EX II plus 3x 550EX. I'm sorry that your gear performs differently. I'm out of ideas on this one.

[yogestee]

I'm not very sure what you wanted to tell me here, but I'll answer by the same coin: If your Moto Guzzi had all technical capabilities to reach 250kmh, but didn't allow you that speed just because some on-board software didn't support it, I would consider that a design flaw, yes.

And I'm not talking about the difference in terms of safety (The flash won't kill me, I hope).

My Guzzi LeMans never had the technical capablities to hit 250kph but the speedo read upto 250kph..Is that a design flaw??

Look,,you are trying to acheive what your camera/flash combination wasn't designed to do..

[CliveyBoy]

I overlooked adding a CP-E4 8-battery pack. There is a good quality non-Canon but almost identical pack available from FlashZebra at a reasonable price.

I will try my tests again, using my 6-battery pack.

[CliveyBoy]

Look, you are trying to acheive what your camera/flash combination wasn't designed to do.
I agree with yogestee, but we can press the limitations by spending money on the best flash available at present (580EX II), best camera and flash settings, best batteries and charger (Powerex 2700MaH and MH-C9000), and an 8-battery pack.

[RPCrowe]

Hmmm... It looks like I have my own habits.

When I photo a person, there is no such thing as taking a single shot. The camera is set on continuous, and I'll shoot three-four shots at a time. Reason: In case my subject blinks in the wrong moment. This simple method has proven to be a saver many times.

If the flash wants some time to recharge, fine. I still want my three shots. What I get is one shot with flash, two without. The flash charges pretty quickly, but the camera is quicker.

A non-trained subject is likely to move a second or two after a flash. Normal people don't expect a multi-shot. Waiting for the flash icon to appear makes the whole process cumbersome, and obviously gives me one more thing on my mind.

The great irony is that it works like I want with the internal flash, so obviously someone thought it's a good idea to let the camera wait. It beats me why it doesn't with a Canon flash, which was on the market before the camera.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. I should have read more carefully.

Try speeding up your flash recycle. Using Eneloop rechargeable batteries has speeded up the recycle times of my flashes as well as allowing for more flashes per charge. Additionally, shooting at as wide an aperture as possible will use less power from the flash and facilitate more rapid recycle.

The 430EX can also use an external battery and usually external battery packs can speed up recycle times significantly.

Quantum:

http://www.qtm.com/?page=3999&qmode=c

Canon also has an external battery pack which uses AA batteries and provides quicker recycle times. There are also Chinese knock-off battery packs occasionally found on eBay.