model doesn't see eye to eye

[rocker83]

So I shot with a wonderful model on sunday. We took careful consideration in the concept. I worked really hard with a makeup artist and my strobes to light her correctly, well in my opinion..and I just started showing her the shots...and she thinks they are absolutely hideous...
Now I wouldn't be offended if I thought it was total crap as well but they're not. She was just very turned off by the lighting(not natural light) her neck and all the poses I put her in..
I really think I did quality work and I want her to at least see that its quality...
am I just stuck here and should just accept artistic eye don't always meet in the middle?
here is the link the the gallery she is talking about..
only 6 pictures so far...
http://mikejbphotography.smugmug.com/Michael-Jacobs-Photography/Fashion-and-Glamour/Aphrodite-of-the-Brewery/10330841_9kU3S#714299211_ThBAf

[Mark_Cohran]

While she may reasonably have an artistic disagreement with you, there's no way I could see her describing the images as hideous. It may be that she had a preconceived notion of how the images should have looked and the final results didn't match that. In any event, you need to have an open and frank discussion with the model about the images and you may need to agree to disagree.

Generally, when I shoot with a model, I explain the concept in advance and i usually show the models a couple of images on the camera LCD screen as the shoot progresses. You may well have done this too, but to no avail.

[Mark1]

I see her point. I think you did nothing wrong. The lighting is very nice, good concept, good editing...etc..etc..

However her neck does look streached. It looks twice a "normal" one. I would not like that either. But I cant see that as your fault. It does make her "hideous". But again not your fault.

Her expressions are very blank. Almost of boredom. And the poses dont have "it" whatever that means. They could be fixed with minor tweeks. But they are nothing to complain about, its just easier to judge from a 3rd party prespective.

I would say great job...but get a better model.

[rocker83]

sigh, yeah you both are on the spot...I guess I get offended too easily, it was just a concept I was really rooting for and I thought, well in my mind that I had pulled it off...whereas it just wasn't her mindset...what can you do? I let her know that I was dedicated to making us both be on the same page if we ever shoot again and that Im sorry that our ideas just didn't meet, I don't believe there is much else I can do other then that..

[Mark1]

Well.... her neck you cant do much about. But now you now have a baseline to work from. If you have the opertunity to do a reshoot you have a reference point to improve upon.

[hawk911]

If you were trying for Greek Statue, then the poses and expressions work for me. The model choice seems to be more the issue. Some of the lighting is a bit harsh, but I'm not sure what you were after. Shadows are good, but some just seem to be in the wrong places, or too harsh to be flattering. 3 & 4 in your linked gallery seem to have the more harsh shadows.

[Hotrodguru]

She's on crack, the photos rock. But if she's a paying client she does have a say. I'm sure you guys discussed the concept before hand and she probably previewed some photos on the camera LCD...kind of between a rock and a hard spot.

Have you spoke to any other photographers that have worked with her or did she sample any of your previous work and approve?

[rocker83]

We did speak of the concept...at length through email...
as we shot I showed her photos on the lcd and she enjoyed them...
She wanted to work with me because of my previous work
this was a tfp venture..
This was also her second "real" shoot ever...
she is young,(19) and an art student so she might have a little biased..
she is also one of those gals that takes an enormous amount of photos of her face and has them on myspace...
She has a "manager" aka a nosey friend that tags along and crow bars ideas in when Im shooting..
Im really not trying to build a case to slander her...she just may be hard to work with in general..although she was a doll when we were actually shooting...
Im trying to keep a constant dialogue with her to see what we can do differently next time...

[Bradfordguy]

I think they are excellent. They almost look surreal, marble statue like. It's easy to critisize, not so easy to do better.

[thebishopp]

I saw some of these photos when you posted them for critique in the G&N section. I thought they looked good then and still do. Very much in the theme you posted them under (aphrodite).

I liked the lighting as well as the overall poses for the theme. While I think some of her expressions could be a tad bit "better" (though they kind of do fit a statue type look) the only real criticism I would have is the background. Instead of the brick I would of preferred some type of marble which would of been more inline with an aphrodite/greek feel.

She probably got a bunch of crituqes from some envious friends (and possibly even her "manager") and these "friends" probably gave some negative input on the photos which is why she feels they way she does. I have seen this happen before.

[LanceNelson]

I think the photos look good. But there are a few where I'm not too into the facial expression, she looks uncomfortable to me in some.

[Jeff Colburn]

I think the photographs are very nice, but you can't please everyone. As long as you have a signed model release, go ahead and use the photographs as you originally intended.

Have Fun,
Jeff

[smurffman]

They look great to me. She may not be experienced enough to see herself with a critical eye.

[woodsters]

Rocker, to me they looked great. One of my first models that came to shoot with me was supposedly her very first time shooting. She acted like she was scared dickens. She took forever to change from one outfit to another and had no idea what she wanted to do. She brought a thing of poses she wanted to do and my wife and myself even helped her attain those poses. Later on, a couple days after the shoot I asked her if there was anything wrong because I sensed something. She tried to tell me that we didn't help her with posing. I think she thinks she is a Diva, which she isn't. My wife will say her name if you ask her who her least favorite model has been so far...lol

As far as her neck, well it's her neck. You can't make it any longer than what it is. If she don't like how longer neck is, then she don't need to model or she needs to be a parts model or something. It was a TFP shoot. So I guess she will not be wanting any of the pictures since she thought they were hideous. Her loss. Tell her you will refund her her money...that's what I promise my models when I shoot with them TF. I tell them that if they are not satisfied, that I will refund every penny they paid me to shoot.

[charlesu]

I'd give you 10 to 1 odds that a friend of hers (who is either jealous or disapproves of her work) has colored her opinion of the images. I've seen that and heard about it many times in my 20 years of shooting. Since she liked what she saw at the shoot, something changed later. Could even be the "manager".

Incidentally, I don't work with models who have a manager,

[glowangel]

I like the photos. The neck thing, there's nothing you can do about that. In fact I didn't notice it and had to go back and look. What I *did* notice was her facial expressions. You said you are trying to keep constant communication - try for another shoot, try to get her to leave the "manager" behind if you can make it a little less informal to the front maybe make her loosen up a little and be more comfortable (might help with the facial expressions too!) Agree to disagree.

If she's uncomfortable about the neck thing - try for poses/angles that wouldn't show that for your next shoot. (Like I said, I didn't even catch that and had to go back and look again and even then I don't see it as an issue - shes just self conscience I think) For example, I'm self conscience about my stomach so my photos are of poses and angles that focus on my busts/face/back/full body angles so that my stomach isn't the "center" of the photo. Also certain clothing/jewelry could less intensify the fact too to make her feel more comfortable.

You also stated she doesn't like the poses you put her in, well experiment with something the next time you shoot. Go "pose for pose." You pose her, then let her attempt to pose herself and work together like that back and forth. Doing some photos in my house with a friend, we did that a little bit not knowing what to do really (practice shots) and it turned out really cool and gave great ideas. He would direct some/I would just go with the flow and pose some/then we would communicate and combine each others ideas for poses. Doing this would help you out is many ways with this model if you continued to shoot her. It would build trust/you would get your poses/she would get hers/creativity would arise/ and most importantly communication would ensue. Yes, this may be slightly more time consuming especially is your are on a tight schedule but if you can throw in the few extra minutes - I think it would be well worth your time. Especially for new photographers needing the practice/portfolio images.

Mandy

[rocker83]

thanks for the input, we will probably try again after the holidays, shes a busy bee, but I would like to try something more informal and well clothed...this was her first time being topless...so I can understand some apprehension and static posing...

[Lenny1961]

Talking from an actors perspective, filmmaker, and amateur photographer. I really liked the pictures, they were beautiful. However, the model told me nothing! Absolutely nothing. I found her expressions lifeless, it seemed as if she was just posing. Images, from any medium need to jump, scream, talk to me. When I work with actors and friends that I have shot for still photography I always coach them along, even after discussing the concept. Something needs to be going on in the the head of the subject for the story to be told. It is a story a concept that I am trying to convey and the subject/actor needs to step up to the plate. Otherwise, it will be just another boring photograph.

[EmmaRose]

They're good pictures, but did she hate your work or did she hate herself in them? I've modeled for projects I don't 'agree' with (meaning I wouldn't choose it or like it) artistically but I just deal with not using the photos. Did she mean she wouldn't be able to use this as her facebook/myspace profile pic for example?

[rocker83]

I did sit with her, explain the emotions behind many ideas...I honestly think she was just really new to being partially nude...and I can understand that...
She doesn't like the photos in a technical sense and she also does not like herself in them....
she was 100% for the idea though and even chose it herself...
I do feel kinda slighted though, I thought she would at least use 1 or 2 for her portfolio, but I suppose not.
Im okay with this now, you win some you lose some...I did my job as a photographer, I was professional, conveyed what I wanted from her and did my best. I am proud of the photos, so is the MUA and I will use them as needed in my port. All I can say is, NEXT!

[Lightworks Imaging]

The photos look good enough. I've been there where I think I blew it out of the water, and the model seems to not like the images. C'est la vie. Life is like art, you can please some of the people...

Get a different model, keep shooting. You nailed the concept, as you saw fit. Not every model likes every shot.

You got it right, "NEXT"!

[Detroit Shutter Bug]

These photograph's are really good! you should let this be like water on a ducks back, and roll on.

[mozaa]

i guess the best thing to do rather than guess what she is thinking or try to decifer what "hideous" is from her persepective, is ask her what she wanted? Since they were TFP she may have wanted some more glamour style images for her portfolio as you said this was her second shoot so at a guess she is probably after a series of shots which are uniformed in style and finish that compliments her to increase her starting portfolio. IMHO looking through the 16 shots on the gallery, I agree with some of the previous posters here that her expression brings little to the shot but then again some of the lighting in the photos hasnt capture anything either there are a couple there where its blown out or the shadows are a little harsh and take from the face as the body is lit more. just my 2c

[J_TULLAR]

wow she has a long neck, photos are pretty good and not hideous imo.

[hennie]

I like your pics, however got the feeling something is wrong with the poses.

The neck thing... The way her hair falls makes her neck look longer than it actually is (very obvious on #2 and #14, better on #9).
For some reason her head seems very small to me.

[ozziepuppy]

Given that it was only her second time posing I think you did a great job with her. I like the overall look although I do agree with the comments about (a) the neck and (b) marble being a bit better. Nonetheless, I still think the photos are good and, as part of a portfolio, would provide a nice contrast to other sorts of photos that might be there too. Maybe she is just reconsidering the whole nude thing and doesn't want to say that, so is coming up with alternative excuses not to use the photos.