? about buying selling references

[doublehmom]

After you sell or buy anything on the forum is there anywhere to post bad or good references?

[hawkskins]

Yes, there is:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28608

[doublehmom]

Thank you!!!

[asysin2leads]

After you sell or buy anything on the forum is there anywhere to post bad or good references?

Negative feedback isn't permitted per POTN rules.

[doublehmom]

Thank you very much~good info to know. Guess I need to read POTN rules.

[Sam|McGuire]

Negative feedback isn't permitted per POTN rules.
I find fault in this. I think if a seller burns a buyer it should be publicly known.

[tommykjensen]

I find fault in this. I think if a seller burns a buyer it should be publicly known.

The problem in allowing this is that it very quickly turns into a public lynching. We have seen several cases of people being impatient and accuse another part in a transaction of not completing the transactions but it turned out there were an perfectly reasonable cause for a delay.

[Skip Souza]

I find fault in this. I think if a seller burns a buyer it should be publicly known.
While I understand your feelings we do not allow public floggings or the raising of lynch mobs here.

[ShotByTom]

I understand the Forum doesn't allow complaints against other members, and doesn't get involved in private transactions.. BUT....people always ask for positive feedback, and the Forum provides a place for us to post that...but there's no place to post negative feedback.

My example...seller advertised a lens as mint, no marks of any kind and works perfect. I bought the lens after checking and finding positive feedback and talking to the seller on the phone and PM. When I got the lens I had to send it in for repairs before I could use it. The mount was very loose, there were screws missing on the front end of the lens, and the lens hood still won't stay on. These were things that were not possible to have been overlooked. The lens moved significantly when mounted on the camera.

I sent emails and PM's and got no response. I posted in one of his threads asking him to contact me and my post was deleted. I also called his cell number and sent text messages, with no response.

Since then the same seller has sold other items indicating they too are "mint" condition. People buying those items would never know about the misleading previous sale and have no way to find out about it, but could easily find a positive feedback posted on the Forum.

The Forum allows you to post positive feedback, nothing negative. When people have issues with a seller, the first thing people always say is "should have done your research." Then when communications fail and posts are made, they are deleted.

The only thing I have taken from this is that I won't buy used items here. FM has a way to post negative feedback, and that should be an option here.

[doublehmom]

I totally understand, a521. I have sold my stuff on here and I have sold at bargain prices but no more~I am sick of dealing with crap from people. Someone pmed me and said they would buy my 270ex so I closed the thread then he didn't want it. I will just stick to ebay from now on and get more money for my stuff.

[scrumpy]

While I understand your feelings we do not allow public floggings or the raising of lynch mobs here.

... so if you get screwed by a POTN member - tuff :rolleyes:

[tommykjensen]

... so if you get screwed by a POTN member - tuff :rolleyes:

I don't know what you expect us to say to this. We have stated what the policy is here on POTN. It is really sad when someone gets ripped of. If we get substantial evidence of that we will ban the member in question but we will not allow public lynching.

[scrumpy]

I don't know what you expect us to say to this. We have stated what the policy is here on POTN. It is really sad when someone gets ripped of. If we get substantial evidence of that we will ban the member in question but we will not allow public lynching.

If the Mods are listening to what members say regarding raw deals then I totally take back my remark above. Caveat venditor.

[tommykjensen]

If the Mods are listening to what members say regarding raw deals then I totally take back my remark above. Caveat venditor.

As I said if we receive substantial evidence then the scamming member will be banned.

[Skip Souza]

If the Mods are listening to what members say regarding raw deals then I totally take back my remark above. Caveat venditor.

It is necessary for the injured party to send a PRIVATE MESSAGE to a moderator sating the problem in full.

perhaps even better is to use the report post button http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/buttons/report.gif completely describing the problem in the dialog box. That way it shows up in the Mod forum for all Mods to see and comment.

What is NOT allowed is a public posting of the allegations, this invariably leads to the raising of a lynch mob and public flogging.

Understand that this is for egregious acts, non payment or non shipment, not for "failure to communicate", "failure to honor dibs" and the like and should only be used after all other channels have been exhausted.

[MDJAK]

A totally innocent question. I understand the position of POTN completely. The way I do it is I look at a seller's posting history by going to their profile. I will then pm members who appear to have purchased from that member. I just did that yesterday. The buyer told me the lens was listed as mint and it was scratched, etc., and the person has not returned his attempts at communicating.

I obviously will not do business with this seller. So that is one way of researching.

However, if one is careful about what is written in feedback, is it impermissible to say:

Seller: A

Buyer: B

Item: 70-200 f2.8 IS

Lens was advertized as mint but had scratches.

Is that so bad? Can something like that be done and then pm a Mod to close the thread so at least people can see it if they do a search. Locking the thread would eliminate the lynching. I realize it would stop the seller from replying. Perhaps the thread could be limited to just the buyer and seller.

me

[tommykjensen]

Mark it seems innocent enough but the question would be where to draw the line? Some will see a comment like that as an invitation to start a lynch mob.

[unrlmth]

Why don't you have a system where only the 2 parties involved can comment? That's how it is on FM and eBay. The iTrader system is pretty common and on other forums, I've found it to work well. Heatware might also be an option, but I'm not sure if any non computer forums use it.

I've used all of the systems here and haven't experienced any "lynch mobs" associated with them.

[Skip Souza]

I am glad Mark, that you are doing your due diligence in researching sellers.

For Sale threads are not the place to post testimonials, either positive or negative. That is why I routinely delete post such as "Buy with confidence from this seller, great guy" These types of posts belong in the Positive Feedback thread.

Speaking of the Positive Feedback thread, that is where I would start my search. If the seller has no references there I would have to proceed like Mark suggested.

[doublehmom]

I WILL NEVER BUY FROM HERE AGAIN!!! I bought something recently, got it today, is useless and broken!!!!! I can't use it~lots of money down the drain!!!!

[10megapixel]

I understand completely why there is not a "Negative Feedback" thread, although it would be awesome to read :lol: it would be quite a slug fest and out of control in no time...but still, it would be soooo fun to read.

POTN is NOT ebay folks. They do not put a guarantee behind any transaction that happens here on the forum and they are not responsible if you get screwed. You are taking a chance when you buy or sell anything here and it's your responsibility to make sure your ass is covered in case a bad deal goes down, if you don't know how to do that then you need not buy or sell here and you should stick with ebay. I speak from experience as I have had a member try to take me for a $1000 bucks once, but Paypal came through for me and I learned from it. POTN mods did indeed ban that member when I provided proof that he/she was a fraudulent seller.

The buy and sell forums are a great thing here, and if you are unsure about a seller then check their feedback, if they have none or very little then contact them via e-mail and then ask them for their phone number. Talk to them on the phone and get their address if you can, and verify that they are who they say they are, if they are willing to cooperate then your usually ok, if they act suspicious and your gut tells you something is wrong then walk away. This may sound excessive to some, but it's just a little work that may save you from getting screwed and most sellers are ok with it if they really want to move an item.

I always use Paypal and have the seller send me a money request stating in full detail what I am buying from them and when they are shipping the item as well. Save a your e-mail conversations with the seller/buyer as they can be used as evidence in a dispute.

[chadams45]

Also remember if you send the money as a gift through PP forget about using PP to dispute the sale as a farce and trying to recoup your money. PP will say it was a gift and you have forfeited your ability to settle any dispute with the buyer.

[ShotByTom]

I understand completely why there is not a "Negative Feedback" thread, although it would be awesome to read :lol: it would be quite a slug fest and out of control in no time...but still, it would be soooo fun to read.

POTN is NOT ebay folks. They do not put a guarantee behind any transaction that happens here on the forum and they are not responsible if you get screwed. You are taking a chance when you buy or sell anything here and it's your responsibility to make sure your ass is covered in case a bad deal goes down, if you don't know how to do that then you need not buy or sell here and you should stick with ebay. I speak from experience as I have had a member try to take me for a $1000 bucks once, but Paypal came through for me and I learned from it. POTN mods did indeed ban that member when I provided proof that he/she was a fraudulent seller.

The buy and sell forums are a great thing here, and if you are unsure about a seller then check their feedback, if they have none or very little then contact them via e-mail and then ask them for their phone number. Talk to them on the phone and get their address if you can, and verify that they are who they say they are, if they are willing to cooperate then your usually ok, if they act suspicious and your gut tells you something is wrong then walk away. This may sound excessive to some, but it's just a little work that may save you from getting screwed and most sellers are ok with it if they really want to move an item.

I always use Paypal and have the seller send me a money request stating in full detail what I am buying from them and when they are shipping the item as well. Save a your e-mail conversations with the seller/buyer as they can be used as evidence in a dispute.

I totally disagree. First...there is NO way to verify over the phone that someone is who they say they are.

POTN provides a method to say someone is a good seller, but does not provide the same for people who are bad sellers. Why just allow one side?? I don't buy the lynch mob reason, there are too many ways to prevent that.

I did call the person I bought from, spoke to them several times before buying, and was lied to. After the purchase he refused to answer calls, text msgs, emails, PM's AND my posts were deleted. He has since sold several items to other people who have not left positive feedback....does that mean they've had a negative experience too?

Another way to look at this is that POTN is allowing unscrupulous people to sell on here with no way to warn other members. Had I been able to post negative feedback regarding my purchase the problem may have been worked out between me and the seller, AND those that have made purchases since mine would have been warned and may have avoided a bad purchase.

Because of POTN's "no negativity" policy, people are put at risk of making bad purchases. I am in the process of researching ALL of this person's transactions to see if there were negative transactions before mine that may have prevented me from losing money on my purchase through this site.

[tommykjensen]

POTN provides a method to say someone is a good seller, but does not provide the same for people who are bad sellers. Why just allow one side?? I don't buy the lynch mob reason, there are too many ways to prevent that.


We have answered that many many times and the answer remains the same.

Provide any moderator/admin with substantial evidence of fraud and we will ban the member in question.

[10megapixel]

I totally disagree. First...there is NO way to verify over the phone that someone is who they say they are.

POTN provides a method to say someone is a good seller, but does not provide the same for people who are bad sellers. Why just allow one side?? I don't buy the lynch mob reason, there are too many ways to prevent that.

I did call the person I bought from, spoke to them several times before buying, and was lied to. After the purchase he refused to answer calls, text msgs, emails, PM's AND my posts were deleted. He has since sold several items to other people who have not left positive feedback....does that mean they've had a negative experience too?

Another way to look at this is that POTN is allowing unscrupulous people to sell on here with no way to warn other members. Had I been able to post negative feedback regarding my purchase the problem may have been worked out between me and the seller, AND those that have made purchases since mine would have been warned and may have avoided a bad purchase.

Because of POTN's "no negativity" policy, people are put at risk of making bad purchases. I am in the process of researching ALL of this person's transactions to see if there were negative transactions before mine that may have prevented me from losing money on my purchase through this site.

Buying and selling on POTN can be risky and I am sorry that you are having problems, I truly am. Getting as much information about the seller before the transaction is your responsibility, and although talking with someone on the phone may not truly verify their identity, it does give you a phone number that can be used by authorities to help track them down if necessary and retrieve your money. A listed land-line phone number given to you by the seller can also be used to verify an address via internet search or phone book, more proof that they are indeed who they say they are. Saved email conversations ( Not private messages !) can also be used as evidence to build a case against a fraudulent seller. In your case however, it seems you did receive the item but it just was not as described. I'm not sure how you paid the seller, but hopefully you used Paypal and had the seller send you a money request for the item with a detailed description of what you were buying, along with emails describing the condition of the lens. With this information you might be able to get a refund through Paypal but it's going to be very tough and I doubt that they would force a refund. Now if you did not receive the item at all then you would have a strong case and probably a definite refund if the seller could not provide any proof of shipping. Good luck to you my friend and I hope you resolve this and come out happy in the end.