Sensor cleaned, still goobers on Av images

[Toob]

Greetings all,

I took my 300D in to have the sensor cleaned (just blown out with compressed, but not canned compressed, air) for the first time yesterday (after 4,000 images that's not bad!). Unfortunately, I still have weird 'goobers' on my pictures. In fact, they're the same goobers that were there before the cleaning. I've heard horror stories about people sending in their cameras to have the sensors cleaned, only to have them returned with more dust than they started with, etc. Luckily, these are just the same ol' goobers, nothing new, if I must look at things optimistically... :)

Now, my problem is that these goobers only show up in aperture priority mode images. Here are two examples. The 'raina' image was taken in Av mode, and 'rainm' is in Manual mode:

http://www.weatherreno.com/raina.jpg
http://www.weatherreno.com/rainm.jpg

(Please, don't critique my composition as I was hanging out of my van window while driving home, not knowing whether the sensor cleaning had worked, etc. These are indeed test pictures, I simply had a really nice test subject ;))

Note the goobers in raina, and lack thereof in rainm.

I haven't once seen the goobers in M mode. But in Av mode, they're always there (well, in the sky pics). I'm a novice clawing my way to amateur level with this camera (and non-point and shoot photography in general) and am really trying to learn as much about it as possible, as I totally love the results I'm getting. But the technical side of things sometimes escapes me, and that's why I'm hoping perhaps someone here would be able to lend a hand and an idea as to why I would only see these goobers in Av mode. I don't have a Tv example to show, but note it doesn't happen in shutter priority either, or in any of the preset "non-creative" modes.

My next option is leaving the camera there for a couple of hours for them to do a thorough optics cleaning. Note that the goobers appear in both my 'kit' lens and my telephoto lens, so that is not the issue. I am similarly not using any filters.

Thanks in advance for your input, if you have anything to share!

--Melissa

[LisaMarie]

Hi Melissa,

the reason you can see the dust in your AV mode picture is because it was shot at f36. @ 1/30th of a second. With the small aperture and shutter speed it brings out the visible dust. On your M mode photo it was taken at f5.6 @ 1/1000 of a second. The dust did not show up because of the wider aperture and faster shutter speed.

Have you consider buying the sensor swabs and cleaning it with eclipse yourself ? Depending on how much your service place charges you for a cleaning you might be better off doing it yourself.

Good luck !

[Toob]

Thanks for the quick response. See, I told you I'm still learning all of this :o

I would try it myself but I'm scared of making things worse than they are. In fact, I've pre-ordered a CO2 cleaning kit with swabs but I was a bit paranoid (not to mention the cost of the three-swab kit is more than the cost for the other place to do it in-house). I figure if I take it in to someone who's done it a gazillion times, I'd have better results than fumbling around and touching the sensor myself. Eventually I suppose I would be more confident at it, but right now I'm a chicken. . .

Am I the only person who's gotten that 'sick stomach' feeling upon the first realization of 'defective' images coming out? <Somehow, I doubt it. . . >

I will likely take my camera in later this morning for a pro cleaning. . . .

Thank you!

[robertwgross]

I'm constantly amazed by how much time and expense people go through on sensor cleaning. It costs me about one penny, and it takes a matter of seconds to do.

---Bob Gross---

[davepgh1]

I'm constantly amazed by how much time and expense people go through on sensor cleaning. It costs me about one penny, and it takes a matter of seconds to do.

---Bob Gross---

So how do you clean your sensor?

[Toob]

Please do share, and keep in mind that for those of us who have never done it before, it's easy to feel a little overwhelmed and nervous about touching the heart of our camera for the first time :D If I could do it for a penny and know I could effectively and safely do it, believe me, I'd be all over it!

[badrotation]

I clean mine with the copper hill method, and my homemade sensor swipe (rubbermaid frosting spatula cut down to size, and sanded for a nice angled tip) ever two weeks as needed. I have done it tons of times without scratching anything.

It is well worth it. It gets every single spot off the first try every time i do it...

[Curtis N]

LisaMarie is correct, smaller apertures do make sensor dust appear. f/32 will also tend to increase diffraction and reduce overall sharpness.

Sensor cleaning is something every digital SLR user needs to learn, but the reality is that there's no way to keep it perfectly clean all the time. So it's wise to avoid smaller apertures (high f/ numbers) unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

[Toob]

I do have a ton to learn! How exciting! Now I'm thinking that possibly I just need to buy some pec pads and swabs and solution, and just tackle it myself.... Is this the wrong attitude to have, being such a beginner?

Options, options, options!

[dsze]

Bob, not everyone has the extensive experience with DSLR's that you do. We were all nervous as heck the first time we reached into the chamber with the sensor exposed.

I use the copperhill method once in awhile and use a rocketblower about once every couple weeks, maybe more depending on how much lens changing I do. With 2 bodies now, I am changing lenses alot less and find myself cleaning less. I also find that the more often I use the rocket blower, the less often I have to use the copper hill. BTW, the initial expense of the copperhill materials has lasted me for over a year now and I've still got more than half my supply of Pec-Pads and Eclipse left. I fully expect it to last another year, which works out to less than $10/year for the materials, to maintain a clean sensor. Pretty reasonable.

-daniel

[robertwgross]

Bob, not everyone has the extensive experience with DSLR's that you do. We were all nervous as heck the first time we reached into the chamber with the sensor exposed.

I've been digital for less than three years. However, I have spent many years working professionally with all sorts of electronics, so at least I know how to think about potentially sensitive components. It helps if you have small fingers with good manual dexterity, and it helps a lot to have a very bright light over your shoulder.

However, all I have ever used for sensor cleaning is a clean cotton swab and a fraction of a drop of lens cleaner solution. You could probably use other liquids as well, but it would be important that the liquid must evaporate after use, and it must be extremely clean so as not to leave a residue. Pure methyl or ethyl alcohol might be a good choice.

If you fail and do not use any liquid, then the cotton swab might drop a cotton fiber on the sensor surface. That is not catastrophic, but you will simply have to go in there and clean it again. Also, don't leave any cotton fibers hung on the sharp edges in the chamber, edges like where the mirror stops.

---Bob Gross---

[Toob]

I hope I won't disappoint anyone with what I ultimately did. . . . I went back to the place that cleaned it yesterday, and he saw the offending goobers today. He did a more extensive cleaning of it today, and BINGO, it is totally clean now! *knocking on wood* I am looking into perhaps getting some Pec Pads (I can't find them locally??) and Eclipse solution and perhaps even one of the brushes, so I can have a mini "kit" on hand here in case I feel desperate, or brave, or both. . .

[sharrowm]

Hi Melissa,

the reason you can see the dust in your AV mode picture is because it was shot at f36. @ 1/30th of a second. With the small aperture and shutter speed it brings out the visible dust. On your M mode photo it was taken at f5.6 @ 1/1000 of a second.

Sorry for the newbie question, but how did you know what her camera settings were?

[Toob]

EXIF data is stored with the photo when it's taken, which can be read in image editing software which show all of those settings. It captures the date/time plus all the other camera settings.

I use PaintShop Pro 9, and that information is listed in an EXIF tab under Image>Image Information. This varies according to which software you use, but it acts as a kind of 'DNA' for each of your photos.

EXIF data will even tell you the image number (even when the image has been re-named), the type of camera that was used to take the image, and the firmware release for your camera. I can't copy and paste the info out of PSP 9 here for you, so I apologize. But for some reason my camera's serial number is obscured in PSP 9, however, but it is listed in EXIF data.

The info is saved upon the taking of a photo, so later on you can compare your photos and see which settings made a photo successful, and which ones to avoid next time in a similar situation. I guess I should have checked these settings myself and it could have led to my own discovery of the problem! :o

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable here will have a better explanation of EXIF data than I! But I imagine that is how LisaMarie could see what my camera settings were, without my even having to transfer a separate text file or anything. I hope this helps!

[birders]

I have suffered with marks on the sensor of my EOS20D. Initially it was dust, but I tried blowing it out and got more marks on the sensor which a puffer brush would not remove.

Reading many threads on this forum I decided to go for DIY. Not knowing where to buy cheap cleaning fluid I bought some Eclipse and some Digi-pads from a UK dealer. Very apprehensively I pushed the Digi-pad against the sensor - still not sure if it was solid glass or cling-film! It is very solid and two sweeps of the Digi-pad rendered the sensor immaculately clean, as viewed with a powerful magnifying glass.

To anyone with a dirty sensor I would recommend reading all the stuff on here from experts and then try doing it yourself. I don't know how long Canon take or how much they charge to clean it - it's free in Canada so that means it'll be about an arm and a leg in the UK. I'm not a professional photographer by any stretch and if I can do this job anyone can.. I'm well glad I took the risk and offer grateful thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion on sensor cleaning.

[Curtis N]

immaculately clean, as viewed with a powerful magnifying glass.The best way I've found to look for sensor dust is to take an unfocused shot of the clear bluy sky with the smallest aperture at ISO100. If there are better ways I'd love to hear about it.

Also, I love the term "goobers." Perhaps it will someday make its way into the technical manuals, along with other cool words like "bokeh" and "chimping."

[Trumper]

.

Reading many threads on this forum I decided to go for DIY. Not knowing where to buy cheap cleaning fluid I bought some Eclipse and some Digi-pads from a UK dealer. Very apprehensively I pushed the Digi-pad against the sensor - still not sure if it was solid glass or cling-film! It is very solid and two sweeps of the Digi-pad rendered the sensor immaculately clean, as viewed with a powerful magnifying glass.

.
Where did you get the cleaning stuff from in the UK please,i have been looking into this on these threads as well, http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77088 and http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=68949 ,many thanks.

[sharrowm]

EXIF data is stored with the photo when it's taken, which can be read in image editing software which show all of those settings. It captures the date/time plus all the other camera settings.

I use PaintShop Pro 9, and that information is listed in an EXIF tab under Image>Image Information. This varies according to which software you use, but it acts as a kind of 'DNA' for each of your photos.

EXIF data will even tell you the image number (even when the image has been re-named), the type of camera that was used to take the image, and the firmware release for your camera. I can't copy and paste the info out of PSP 9 here for you, so I apologize. But for some reason my camera's serial number is obscured in PSP 9, however, but it is listed in EXIF data.

The info is saved upon the taking of a photo, so later on you can compare your photos and see which settings made a photo successful, and which ones to avoid next time in a similar situation. I guess I should have checked these settings myself and it could have led to my own discovery of the problem! :o

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable here will have a better explanation of EXIF data than I! But I imagine that is how LisaMarie could see what my camera settings were, without my even having to transfer a separate text file or anything. I hope this helps!

Well, I'll be...! I've been taking and editing digital photos for a few years now and never new that data was embedded in the files. Boy do I feel like a "goober" :)

Thank you, Marc.

[dmstraton]

What is the copperhill method?

[lancea]

See http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning.

[buze]

I've experimented a lot with the other "static brush" method. I like that one better than the spatula one. course it might not removed dirtier bits, but it seems to have worked fine here.
I got a nice acrylic brush of appropriate size, washed it several times, did the "filter test" on it until it was clean and used that. You can make the brush static by blowing canned air on it for a few seconds. Works marvels!

[hopmedic]

The best way I've found to look for sensor dust is to take an unfocused shot of the clear bluy sky with the smallest aperture at ISO100. If there are better ways I'd love to hear about it.

Also, I love the term "goobers." Perhaps it will someday make its way into the technical manuals, along with other cool words like "bokeh" and "chimping."

Ok - I've seen chimping before, and who can't figure out what goobers are, but what is bokeh?

Also, can anyone tell me how to see the exif data when using cs2? I'm not finding anything in the help, and a quick search online isn't showing me anything either. Thanks!

Oh, by the way - I had these same "goobers" last week. Was disgusted. Had already heard of Copper Hill, so just went ahead and ordered the stuff. Cleaned it for the first time yesterday. Took me about 10 minutes because I wanted to make sure I read and understood completely so as not to cause damage. Worked great, and will probably only take a few seconds next time.

[bachscuttler]

Ok - I've seen chimping before, and who can't figure out what goobers are, but what is bokeh?
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/bokeh.htm ;) :cool:

[pierrot]

Where did you get the cleaning stuff from in the UK please ,many thanks.
Don't bother finding the "magical" cleaning stuff. Just buy a small bottle of methylic or isopropylic alcohol (ask at your pharmacy/drugstore), it's ten times cheaper ;)

[PhotosGuy]

Don't bother finding the "magical" cleaning stuff. Just buy a small bottle of methylic or isopropylic alcohol (ask at your pharmacy/drugstore), it's ten times cheaper
NOTE: Isopropyl alcohol is NOT the same as rubbing alcohol!
Rubbing alcohol has an oil & scents added for "rubbing".
Isopropyl alcohol = chemically pure. 99% anhydrous, Technical grade will work well. Grades CP or USP are better, but are unnessessary & cost a lot more.

[Trumper]

NOTE: Isopropyl alcohol is NOT the same as rubbing alcohol!
Rubbing alcohol has an oil & scents added for "rubbing".
Isopropyl alcohol = chemically pure. 99% anhydrous, Technical grade will work well. Grades CP or USP are better, but are unnessessary & cost a lot more.

MMM,help,to someone [me] that doesnt know one chemical from another,is this Isopropyl alcohol ok for sensor cleaning,same as the eclipse fluid?
They sell this stuff on e bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=324&item=5587870076&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW is it the same?
Do you put drops of it on a pec pad type thing wrapped round a statula.
Thanks for the advice

[PhotosGuy]

They sell this stuff on e bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ssPageName=WDVW is it the same? It LOOKS the same. Simpler to try your local drug store (Chemist in UK), isn't it?
Sensor Cleaning -
http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/a_Brush_Your_Sensor/a_Brush_Your_Sensor.html