drunk model, WWYD?

[jstrattonphotography]

I just got back from a big boudoir shoot last night and it was a blast. The problem, one of the girls started off drinking and by the time her 2nd round of 3 outfit changes began, she was LIT. I got what I could but I know they are going to be pretty bad because she was unstable and you could tell she was drunk. How would you handle it?

Unfortunately, as there were 4 girls there all at the same time and she had been hanging in the bathroom I didn't even know she was drinking. The other girls didn't say anything (and they are all friends) until it was too late.

Do I offer her a reshoot and how do I explain the reason without coming off harsh?

[Rubi Jane]

Was this a paid job or a trade? Either way I'm not sure I would rush to offer a reshoot.
I'll assume she is of legal age and therefore can make mature decisions. If she chose to drink during a shoot she hired you for and her behaviour prevented getting great images then she's responsible. If it were a trade shoot I'd chalk it up to experience and set a no alcohol policy for your models.

[advaitin]

Hmm, did she need to drink to overcome inhibitions? Possibly she would have been more comfortable in a different situation--she may have been intimidated by the others' looks--you know how some people are. Or, she just might be a drunk, and there's little you can do about it.

[hawk911]

I'd never shoot someone other than my wife drunk. Too much room for danger- even if her girlfriends are there.

[jstrattonphotography]

It was a mini session so it was VERy cheap but she did pay me for her services. She DID insist I keep shooting the pictures. She didn't drink to make herself feel more comfortable and had mentioned she was so proud of herself for losing over 30lbs and this is the best she has looked in a long time. I really don't know if I WOULD want to work with her again unless it was guaranteed NO alcohol. I did get quite a few great images from the 1st outfit so I may end up making those the focus and explain to her that her behaviour resulted in less than stellar photos of the last 2 outfits.

[Dennis_Hammer]

I wouldn't explain to her anything about her behavior. I wouldn't reshoot for free. I would present the best shots you got of her and leave it at that. Also have some of the obvious 'too drunk' photos ready to show if she asks why there are not more shots and explain then that her changed sobriety affected the quality of the results.

[SMP_Homer]

Drunk people are still ok to shoot...
it's when they become dangerous to themselves and others around them (i.e. tripping over everything) that I pack up and go

[jstrattonphotography]

She wasn't dangerous to herself or others, just looked a TOTAL hot mess. I was pretty embarassed for her but don't want her to come back and say I still should have gotten the images. Chances are she will be embarassed when she sees the work.

[Rocketdun]

I would say if you intend to re-shoot, that the photos were not up to your standards and offer to re-shoot if she does not drink excessively, and you could say that the alcohol demons blurred the photos. Or offer to show her the proofs taken early in the session, and then the later to show her the effects of the alcohol demons. I would also say that you could tell her if she is proud of the 30 lb weight loss she will have some photos as proof but not if she so far in the bottle

[shooterman]

models + drinking = hot naked pics


:p

[jetcode]

Personally I would separate business function from counselor function. If she wants to party let her and photograph it as is. I see it as an opportunity to roll with reality the way it unfolds. If critical outcome was expected and she is out of line I would contact the agency. If she is a personal hire be polite and tell her your sets are drug and alcohol free.

[chrisvl]

She told you to keep shooting. She was drunk and can not make decisions.
I would have stopped and told her she was wasting your time and hers..
It's about integrity and quality of work.
Offer to re-shoot if she pays again.
completely agree with Dennis Hammer.

[SMP_Homer]

models + drinking = hot naked pics


:p

That's why sticking around may be worth it

[hawk911]

and you need is for her to get pissed and tell a cop you shot when she was drunk. It's too close to date rape. I'd have run away screaming. My judgement in that situation might prove better in the long run than hers.

[jstrattonphotography]

Date rape? I am a woman and there were 5 other women there the whole time. I actually personally know ALL of these girls. I am just totally disappointed in the whole situation and not sure how to approach her now. She DID email an apology for getting too tipsy but she still seems to think that the pictures will come out.

[Karl Johnston]

Was she drinking at the shoot? I wouldn't allow that. I wouldn't go near a scenario like that with a 10 foot pole. Doesn't matter if you're a woman..could still come off as a bad scenario for you.

I wouldn't approach her about it, let her come to you..and tell her she can't be drinking, otherwise it wastes both of your time

[FlyingPhotog]

Was she drinking at the shoot? I wouldn't allow that. I wouldn't go near a scenario like that with a 10 foot pole. Doesn't matter if you're a woman..could still come off as a bad scenario for you.

I wouldn't approach her about it, let her come to you..and tell her she can't be drinking, otherwise it wastes both of your time

^^^ THAT ^^^

Serious, Serious Issue and not one to be taken lightly.

[jstrattonphotography]

The session was at a local hotel and the girls booked the room and hired me to simply show up and shoot them. I had no clue she was even drinking till she came out drunk. Had I known she had even brought the alcohol I totally would have monitored it or told her she drinks I dont shoot. Like I said, she was in the bathroom with the other girls and the makeup lady while myself and my 2nd shooter were already at work shooting another girl. Just a bad situation that I NEVER intend to let happen again. Heck I may even put a clause about alcohol consumption in the agreement for shoots of this nature (I typically shoot kids so not too used to this type of a situation lol).

But I am just going to edit the pics and give her what I have that I find good and then let her come to me if she has a problem with it.

[cinder3d]

Sounds good! She will understand when she sees her girlfriends pictures are fine, that she f"#¤ed up! :)

[RDKirk]

I wouldn't explain to her anything about her behavior. I wouldn't reshoot for free. I would present the best shots you got of her and leave it at that. Also have some of the obvious 'too drunk' photos ready to show if she asks why there are not more shots and explain then that her changed sobriety affected the quality of the results.

Absolutely. Do not present any photographs that aren't good, except if she really needs to be shown them to believe you. You wouldn't show blinks or bad expressions. If she wants more, charge for a reshoot. For my normal sessions (which are custom, individual sessions and priced accordingly), I don't charge for reshoots, but after a low-cost "volume" session, I would.

[Jon Foster]

Shooting a drunk model is a major red flag regardless of your sex or theirs. It's just dangerous. Should you offer her a re-shoot? If this happened to me, no way. But that's just my personal opinion.

Jon.

[Cosha]

Humm...

Why had everyone Redflaged and flagpoled this girl already :D

Ok, she got a little drunk? Happy tipsy? Yes i can imagin it was quite hard to get anything picture wise decent out of it, but lets think about it.

Was she at all agressive? Does Not Sound Like it it me, just happy?

Did she at all, tell you to stop shooting? Humm, she said not too right?

You had 4 other girls i belive and a MUA? so whats to 'Red flag' as such? Date Rape? My God...where did that come from :D

You were hired, to take pictures of the best ability you could in the sitution given. She gave the situation of a drunken hot mess? You did your job? Contract completed...Yes

Would i Re-shoot, Yes, but at the cost of the girl!

I expect, she knows the pictures wont be as good, if she questions it say 'Yes, we can do another shoot, but dont get tipsy this time"

And leave it at that!

[RDKirk]

Why had everyone Redflaged and flagpoled this girl already

Ok, she got a little drunk? Happy tipsy? Yes i can imagin it was quite hard to get anything picture wise decent out of it, but lets think about it.

Was she at all agressive? Does Not Sound Like it it me, just happy?

Did she at all, tell you to stop shooting? Humm, she said not too right?

From the standpoint of anyone being intoxicated at a session:

A photographer's session is not a party, it's not a social occasion, it's a business session. The photographer may be held liable for any mishap that occurs on during the session. An intoxicated person at any business session is a legal and financial liability waiting to happen. He's more likely to hurt himself or someone else, more likely to offend someone else, more likely to do something humiliating that he'll want to be compensated for later.

This would be clear if a model were to be intoxicated at a commercial shoot--but the legalities are the same at any session. That's why I carry umbrella liability insurance that covers me on location or anywhere I shoot.

[Cosha]

From the standpoint of anyone being intoxicated at a session:

A photographer's session is not a party, it's not a social occasion, it's a business session. The photographer may be held liable for any mishap that occurs on during the session. An intoxicated person at any business session is a legal and financial liability waiting to happen. He's more likely to hurt himself or someone else, more likely to offend someone else, more likely to do something humiliating that he'll want to be compensated for later.

This would be clear if a model were to be intoxicated at a commercial shoot--but the legalities are the same at any session. That's why I carry umbrella liability insurance that covers me on location or anywhere I shoot.


I Understand both sides, but think about this....

Your shooting a wedding party, my god there all drunk, one falls over and breaks his or her leg, finger pointed at the Photographer? I dont think so? Still under a paid contract.

Business session, yes correct, if the party of people paid to have the shoot, then you shoot. The OP never offered them to drink, or told them it was "Part of the contract" - they choose too, thats not part of the photographers control

I can only hope the OP had a model release, to grant that photographer the rights to do what he or she chooses with the pictures. So the model gets pictures of her smashed out of her face? Tough luck, you signed, you paid and this is what you get, nothing more nothing less?

[RDKirk]

I Understand both sides, but think about this....

Your shooting a wedding party, my god there all drunk, one falls over and breaks his or her leg, finger pointed at the Photographer? I dont think so? Still under a paid contract.

Business session, yes correct, if the party of people paid to have the shoot, then you shoot. The OP never offered them to drink, or told them it was "Part of the contract" - they choose too, thats not part of the photographers control.

Hired to shoot at someone else's party (a wedding reception) and setting up the "party" yourself specifically for your own photography are vastly different things. The OP said:

I just got back from a big boudoir shoot last night and it was a blast.

That sounds like a session set up specifically for the photography, which makes the photographer responsible for what happens in it. It's irrelevant whether the photographer "offered" them a drink. It's also irrelevant whether or not the session was paid. If she had hurt herself or someone else at a session organized by the photographer, the photographer would still have been liable.

[jstrattonphotography]

Hired to shoot at someone else's party (a wedding reception) and setting up the "party" yourself specifically for your own photography are vastly different things. The OP said:



That sounds like a session set up specifically for the photography, which makes the photographer responsible for what happens in it. It's irrelevant whether the photographer "offered" them a drink. It's also irrelevant whether or not the session was paid. If she had hurt herself or someone else at a session organized by the photographer, the photographer would still have been liable.

The girl who drank was the one who set up the whole thing and the girls booked the hotel room and all of that. They just asked me to show up and shoot. And NO WAY would I EVER offer a drink. I do get what everyone is saying and honestly, NOT happening again. I DO have a model release and I THINK I may have enough of the first outfit to give her that are good enough to fulfill my end of the deal. If she wants to reshoot then she can pay another session fee and it WILL be 1 on 1 and NO alcohol!

[Cosha]

Glad you got a relase :D

What im trying to point out is that if the model, got drunk and hurt herself, i for one would not be liable for her actions as a photographer, not a chance, the model set this shoot up, not the photographer.

If the Photographer offered drink (Thankfully the OP never) and set up the shoot etc.. then yes, the model could come back saying she was given drink

[jstrattonphotography]

Thanks Cosha. Luckily I do know the girl and am friends with 1 of the other "models". I just really hope she will be happy with what I was able to get.

[Cosha]

I think you played it smart, i would of done the same thing.

Afterall, you could of said to her that you were stopping shooting because she had been drinking, and that could of flaired up, turning the fun into agression from her side.

Just explane to her, that she was not looking her best after she had a few drinks and it was hard to get any keepers, after all the only person that lost out was her, from her bad judgement.

Just give her the first set, in my eyes you kept up your contract and photographed what she asked for, if she was sober or drunk you still did your job.

[SMP_Homer]

Was she drinking at the shoot? I wouldn't allow that. I wouldn't go near a scenario like that with a 10 foot pole. Doesn't matter if you're a woman..could still come off as a bad scenario for you.

I wouldn't approach her about it, let her come to you..and tell her she can't be drinking, otherwise it wastes both of your time

People drink around cameras all the time... it's usually called a wedding...

[hawk911]

Sorry Jstratton- there's no sex identification on the site so I couldn't tell if you were male or female. But me as a male would run away with a drunk model at a shoot UNLESS there are sufficient people or witnesses on my side of the story to possibly defend myself. As a married man, that's all I need is for her to get ticked off at the results and claim I got her drunk or encouraged her to drink for the sake of "better" pictures. If the other people there are HER friends, then it would turn into 5 against 1 if t got ugly. so my response was purely out of self-preservation.

[DigitalSpecialist]

I have to agree withy Hawk, this is a bad situation that could get much worse! Be glad you got some decent photos, and that you left there with your reputation intact.... count your blessings and move on!

[mmahoney]

Models and intoxicants = predictable.
Holy-than-thou photography forum responses about the situation = just as predictable.

You were expecting a Sunday school class with 4 models in a hotel room?
Get real.

[shooterman]

Models and intoxicants = predictable.
Holy-than-thou photography forum responses about the situation = just as predictable.

You were expecting a Sunday school class with 4 models in a hotel room?
Get real.+1

I'm sure 99% of the top super models are 3 sheets to the wind or have powder up their nose during a shoot. Sounds like a typical shoot to me. ;)

[hawk911]

maybe we just have a naive approach because most of us aren't shooting 4 models in a hotel room. Never claimed to be holy, or holy'er than anyone (least of all Randy :) )

[shooterman]

maybe we just have a naive approach because most of us aren't shooting 4 models in a hotel room. Never claimed to be holy, or holy'er than anyone (least of all Randy :) )Why I oughta.... :p

[jstrattonphotography]

Hawk, it's cool. I also had my 2nd photographer there and I AM friends with one of the girls. They were all pretty appalled at her behavior. But it's over and done with and everyone is fine.

[LBaldwin]

To the OP, I think and most will agree that you were between a rock and a hard place. If the images were for personal use, I would not worry too much. If she wants a re-shoot then do it, but bill her. Her intoxication is not your fault. Other wise I would show her the images and let her decide. As long as you got paid.

[hawk911]

Hawk, it's cool. I also had my 2nd photographer there and I AM friends with one of the girls. They were all pretty appalled at her behavior. But it's over and done with and everyone is fine.

well, maybe next time so we don't all flame the board, put all the relevant details in the original post- like male/female shooter, 2nd shooter present, friends with how many of the models, etc. I think this post would have read much differently had we known that up front.

So where are the pictures? :lol:

[jstrattonphotography]

I am STILL working on them but hope to have them done in a day or two.

[Cosha]

So where are the pictures? :lol:

+1 :)

[Mick_I]

+1

I'm sure 99% of the top super models are 3 sheets to the wind or have powder up their nose during a shoot. Sounds like a typical shoot to me. ;)

Yep, typical shoot. I will say if it's only 3pm and they are tripping over themselves and acting rudely, I call it a wrap till tomorrow :D

[AxxisPhoto]

Wow. I would have stopped the shoot when she starting drinking. Why waste your time with models like that? Doesn't matter whether it's paid or trade.

[mqh123]

We definitely need to see the images. Just so we can judge, as professionals, ya know?

[k-style]

so where are the pics...


subscribed.

[jstrattonphotography]

http://www.jstrattonphoto.com/Nov22/index.html
The girl in question is on the 3rd page.

[mqh123]

Yuck.

[blackhawk]

I'd never shoot someone other than my wife drunk. Too much room for danger- even if her girlfriends are there.

I think you're correct as it's a legal liability, and unprofessional. If YOU know she's drunk, then she is!

[JPBones73]

My former day job was a civil litigator. I think some of the posts and legal analysis here, esp. ones mentioning 'rape' are a bit alarmist. There is no comparison between taking someone's picture naked and a physical assault. Based on my limited experience shooting models, most of them are trainwrecks.

[RDKirk]

There is no comparison between taking someone's picture naked and a physical assault.

I would have agreed, back before they started threatening to arrest photographers as potential terrorists and pedophiles. I'm not so sure anymore how far the insanity can go.

[JPBones73]

I would have agreed, back before they started threatening to arrest photographers as potential terrorists and pedophiles. I'm not so sure anymore how far the insanity can go.

The dumbest thing I ever did was try to take pictures of the roadside farm at Bayside State Prison in rural S. Jersey. It was a cool scene in magic hour light with cows and turkey vultures resting on posts and other birds flying all over. A prison guard arrived in about 20 seconds to tell me to leave and was very firm but professional.

There were a couple of tourists from India arrested after taking pictures of the Philadelphia Navy Yard not long after 9/11. I believe they were let go and charges were dropped, but I couldn't find the print article I read on the internet.

A police officer was arrested after taking explicit photos of an unconscious, unresponsive woman. It should be clear in anyone's mind that constitutes a real crime.
http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/clearysnotebook/2009/12/police-officer-charged-with-taking-sexually-explicit-photos-of-unconscious-woman.html#more

[blackhawk]

The dumbest thing I ever did was try to take pictures of the roadside farm at Bayside State Prison in rural S. Jersey. If within eye shot of a prison simply ask the warden for permission, otherwise they most likely will investigate. Many times it's better to ask when shooting others land, buildings, etc. out of courtesy, and sometimes they allow you access to otherwise inaccessible areas or even more... people are like cats, they hate surprises.