The perils of photography...

[DragonSpeed]

Ouch!

http://feeds.canada.com/~r/canwest/F228/~3/YugMPyZ_dIs/story.html

[BobOh]

Yeah, ouch indeed. All's well that ends "well". I guess the most valuable lesson here is let someone know where you will be.

[Patrick]

He's lucky. It could have turned out very badly. You should definitely let someone know when your in 'the wild'.

[DragonSpeed]

Many people think they have to be "WAY OFF the beaten track" to be out in the wild. A few metres away from the nearest trail/road and people will easily miss you.

[mikekelley]

It amazes me that people go out into these places

a. without telling people where they're going

b. not having a cellphone or something

c. alone

[20droger]

It amazes me that people go out into these places

a. without telling people where they're going

b. not having a cellphone or something

c. alone
My thoughts exactly.

[Unbalanced]

But... How'd the photographs turn out?

Seriously, glad he's OK.

[Todd Lambert]

Why? I do it all the time. Why live life scared?

I do try and bring a cell phone with me, but it's not something you can completely count your life on.

Telling someone is good, but what if you have no idea where you're going? Or, like I do, I start in one general direction, but then end up 20 miles from where I thought I was going to go.

I don't have anyone else who'd want to go where I go, it's boring to most people. I also don't think I'd want people around anyways, I like the time alone, it's therapeutic for me.

My wife often wakes up to find me gone, with a note in the middle of the night. However, again... that note could say I'm going east to such and such, but when I get there or on the way there, something else catches my eye, and off-course I stray. She accepts this and so do I.

If something happens, it happens. You can get hit by a bus 12 feet from your front door, you never know. I'd rather be out living life than always be panicked about preserving it.

[mikekelley]

Living life smart != living life scared.

Believe me i do my fair share of going into the backcountry and off the beaten path. Especially in winter. the outdoors can get ugly fast.

It's not hard to just tell someone where you'll be and bring a cellphone. That way if you go missing, people have at least an idea of where you might be.

It's all about at least ATTEMPTING to minimize the risk. This guy did nothing.

[20droger]

Why? I do it all the time. Why live life scared?

I do try and bring a cell phone with me, but it's not something you can completely count your life on.

Telling someone is good, but what if you have no idea where you're going? Or, like I do, I start in one general direction, but then end up 20 miles from where I thought I was going to go.

I don't have anyone else who'd want to go where I go, it's boring to most people. I also don't think I'd want people around anyways, I like the time alone, it's therapeutic for me.

My wife often wakes up to find me gone, with a note in the middle of the night. However, again... that note could say I'm going east to such and such, but when I get there or on the way there, something else catches my eye, and off-course I stray. She accepts this and so do I.

If something happens, it happens. You can get hit by a bus 12 feet from your front door, you never know. I'd rather be out living life than always be panicked about preserving it.
Have fun. We'll miss you.

And no, I cannot be hit by a bus 12 feet from my front door. Attacked by a mountain lion or bitten by a rattlesnake, perhaps, but not hit by a bus.

[Todd Lambert]

I dunno, I do the same stuff, all the time. I don't think it's dumb, or not being smart. I think it's just the way it is. I mean, be as prepared as you can be, but I don't question or second guess this guy at all. I mean, what did they do in the old days? What did Ansel Adams do (WWAAD)? Don't think he called someone or left itineraries every time he went out with a camera.


I dunno.. [shrugs] ;-)

[DragonSpeed]

I think it's important to realize that Hornby island isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere. That being said - most 3rd world countries have better cell coverage than BC There's a 90% chance that the cell would be useless if you're more than 5 minutes out of town in most areas :(

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hornby+island&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hornby+Island&ll=49.536795,-124.629593&spn=0.204532,0.604935&z=11

[John_B]

Ouch....
Glad that hasn't happened to me....
For all we know even if he had a cellphone it might have broke in the fall? ??? or the battery died? ???....

[siriusdogstar]

John Muir with only his long wool coat and some bisquits in the pocket used to go out in high Sierra Nevada storms for thrills.

The wilds are much safer than "civilization", sure there are some things to know about like preventing hypothermia, watching for rogue waves at the beach, and how to handle wild animal encounters.

I go places I'd never be found if something happened even if I told someone where I was going; cell phones don't work there either.

[20droger]

Yes, and Scott went to find the South Pole with minimal gear.

Oh, wait! He didn't come back, did he.

Going into the wild without taking basic precautions is like skydiving without a reserve chute. You can do it hundreds of times, but the parachute only has to fail once.

[Todd Lambert]

Geez, you sound like my mom. ;-)

Eh, I'd rather die doing what I love.

We're all going to die sometime, might as well enjoy things and not worry so much.

[lespaulowner]

wow

[Karl Johnston]

I'd call myself foolish to not tell someone where I was going, when I would be back and not take a friend. A lot of people take out sat radios when on the land, here, but I can't afford that and our service only reaches for about 4 kms then its 300 kms of wilderness in one direction and thousands and thousands in the others.

Tell someone where you're going. Period..sure you may be able to take care of yourself all right if something happens and you need help.

I say he's foolish, I bet many will disagree with me though I feel it's better to be prepared than to be caught with your pants down (and a broken pelvis in three places, no less! Those HUUUURT)

I used to just go, till I got really SCREWED 20 kms ou....actually never mind I won't try explaining it you can just read about it here:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=743703&page=9
Plenty of cool pictures too.

After that I always took every precaution..a lot of people don't think about this too but TAKE FOOD AND WATER to last you a good couple of days even if you are only 30 odd kms out (you just never know).

[FlyingPhotog]

Five things stressed to people who come out to Arizona and plan to spend time outdoors:
- Hydrate
- Tell someone where you're planning on going
- Hydrate
- Tell them what time you think you'll be back
- Hydrate

Personally, I find the phrase "Die doing what you love" to be rediculous. I fly. I love to fly. The last place in the world I want to die is in an aircraft. We train, practice and prepare so that we don't die in an aircraft.

You can be world-class at anything but the phrase that pays is:
"Use your Superior Judgement to avoid having to use your Superior Skills"

[neilwood32]

That story is pretty scary but with a few precautions, it could have ended a lot better.

The mountain rescue here are inundated with walkers who dont take even the slightest precautions.

The minimum kit recommended to walker/climbers is:
1) 1 set of Spare clothing
2) Fire lighting equipment (waterproof matches or other fire lighting equipment)
3) some form of food (high energy being preferred)
4) a torch (even a small penlight)
5) signalling equipment - a whistle as a minimum. (A blank CD works as a heliograph!)
6) a bivi bag for shelter
7) wet weather gear (waterproof trousers/jacket) as the weather can change in 30 mins up on the hills
8 ) a compass and map.
9) basic first aid kit
Also recommended is leaving details of return time/place and plan (if known) so they have a chance of finding you!

It is amazing how many people go walking here with none of the above kit and end up with hypothermia or dead.

Lets face it - the cost of carrying that (£30?) is a lot less than being DEAD!

[birdfromboat]

where would we be right now if no one had ever ventured out? Probabaly wouldn't be.
I go out with a cell, a light, a lighter, and some plastic fire kindling that burns like rocket fuel but is safe to carry ( it is actually denture casting plastic, in case you are ever forced to burn your teeth). I think about what happens If I flip a boat or rip one open on a rock or just plain fall out, but I am not going to let it scare me to a standstill.
I leave a note, I let someone know if I am headed upriver or downriver, and I do them the favor of letting them know when I am safely (?) back on the trailer and driving home.
And I wear a lifejacket whenever I am alone, all the time. Think how much more gear I can save if I am not busy trying to save myself!

[Karl Johnston]

A guy I talked to recently does a lot of hunting and traveling out on the land to far away hidden places, rivers and streams deeep deeep in the wilderness here. Like 500 kilometers of canoeing and portaging with a full hunting outfit to bring back caribou or bison or what have you (a few hundred lbs of cargo in other words)

One thing he said was always tell someone where you're going, when you'll be back..and bring backups of your essential gear (he showed me a pic of him on his boat, which had its main kicker konk out). Luckily he had a backup, which allowed him to get back to his original starting location in 6 hours...otherwise he would have been a drift for a long long time, or had to break out oars..and for anyone who's been boating or canoeing - you really start to feel it after 20 minutes nevermind 20 some hours it would probably take, if not days, if he hadn't have had that back up kicker.

Safety first, just common sense..can't really feel any sympathy for the guy because he was just foolish but I'm glad he turned out all right.

Where would we be if nobody had ventured out? Well consider this..they came back didn't they? To show us the way, and the trails - they had to be alive to do that ;)

[birdfromboat]

here in Oregon, we hear stories every winter about people going out in their cars to play in the snow in the mountains and freezing to death. They get stuck, and either die right there or try to walk out and die on the way out. Every year.
somehow, people that would be aware of the dangers and prepare for survival if hiking, boating, skiing, snowmobiling or motorcycling to a remote location lose all sense of danger if they can drive there in their cars. It is as if they think the windsheild is a video screen and they are only involved in the scene as much as someone playing a video game.
As a volunteer fire fighter I have helped recover bodies of people that died trapped in a rollover just twenty feet from a busy road, just as unseen as if they had been twenty miles out in the wilderness. I have been involved in recoveries where people drowned in plain view of 100 people.
My point is this: Danger and death are everywhere, just on the other side of the windsheild and 500 kilometers out in the wilderness in a fully loaded hunting boat. I can understand someone being unconcerned about the danger on a short day hike doing a little climbing, maybe risking a six meter fall for a better shot. I can understand how doing something as everyday as driving makes it seem so much safer than something like canoeing. Be aware of the dangers and prepare for them and chances are you will be fine.
On this Thanksgiving day, I am thankful that I have made it home every time I have risked it, and thankful that this young man was able to survive his ordeal and make it home too.

[FlyingPhotog]

Well Said

[neilwood32]

Well Said

Agreed.

Better to prepare to fail than to fail to prepare!

[LBaldwin]

John Muir with only his long wool coat and some bisquits in the pocket used to go out in high Sierra Nevada storms for thrills.

The wilds are much safer than "civilization", sure there are some things to know about like preventing hypothermia, watching for rogue waves at the beach, and how to handle wild animal encounters.

I go places I'd never be found if something happened even if I told someone where I was going; cell phones don't work there either.

Yea and the Sierras are LITTERED with the bodies of greenhorns, flatlanders, and morons who thought they could get through this or that pass in the Spring or Summer!!.

The Sierras are not to be trifled with, unless you prepare. The rescue teams up are busy every year...

[SOK]

Geez, you sound like my mom. ;-)

Eh, I'd rather die doing what I love.

We're all going to die sometime, might as well enjoy things and not worry so much.

Fascinating outlook.

And if it was that simple I'd say "go for it".

But the fact is, once you've been missing for a day or so and Search & Rescue missions are mounted, taxpayers start footing the bill. Quite frankly, I have no issues with people dying doing what they love (curious that you would a 'love' a protracted death by dehydration/exposure etc) but once it starts wasting my taxpayer dollars, I'll start to raise my objections.

Not sure about the US, but every year Aussies fork out millions of dollars on Search & Rescue Ops for people who venture into the bush (and occasionally the sea) unprepared.

Tourists tend to be the worst offenders, possibly because they have no concept of how hostile our wilderness can be.

The most recent story of note was this clown (http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-for-12-days-backpacker-jamie-neale-found-20090715-dktz.html). Incredibly, he survived 12 days in the Blue Mountains, but not after he cost taxpayers a small fortune in SAR bills. And all because he didn't tell people where he was headed.

I love the bush and the tranquility of being out there alone, but I don't much like the idea of a long, agonizing and lonely death caused by by dehydration/exposure. I always let someone know where to send the first rescue chopper.

Living life smart != living life scared.

^ this

[-g-]

Funny, the local TV news didn't mention he was a photographer. Mind you they run a weekly Weather Window Photo Contest, guess they didn't want to bring negative publicity. :)

[DragonSpeed]

Funny, the local TV news didn't mention he was a photographer. Mind you they run a weekly Weather Window Photo Contest, guess they didn't want to bring negative publicity. :)
I'm not sure if he was just an amateur photographer or professional... if not professional -possibly the reason broadcast media didn't raise it.

[Todd Lambert]

I pay taxes too, just saying.


Fascinating outlook.

And if it was that simple I'd say "go for it".

But the fact is, once you've been missing for a day or so and Search & Rescue missions are mounted, taxpayers start footing the bill. Quite frankly, I have no issues with people dying doing what they love (curious that you would a 'love' a protracted death by dehydration/exposure etc) but once it starts wasting my taxpayer dollars, I'll start to raise my objections.

Not sure about the US, but every year Aussies fork out millions of dollars on Search & Rescue Ops for people who venture into the bush (and occasionally the sea) unprepared.

Tourists tend to be the worst offenders, possibly because they have no concept of how hostile our wilderness can be.

The most recent story of note was this clown (http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-for-12-days-backpacker-jamie-neale-found-20090715-dktz.html). Incredibly, he survived 12 days in the Blue Mountains, but not after he cost taxpayers a small fortune in SAR bills. And all because he didn't tell people where he was headed.

I love the bush and the tranquility of being out there alone, but I don't much like the idea of a long, agonizing and lonely death caused by by dehydration/exposure. I always let someone know where to send the first rescue chopper.



^ this

[-g-]

I pay taxes too, just saying.

Not here in Canada. :)

I'd say we spend pretty equally rescuing locals and visitors. We have some pretty nasty back country just steps away from most neighbourhoods.

Then there's the skiers and snowmobilers that get caught in avalanches.

[LBaldwin]

All public costs aside, what about the costs to your family, if you die those costs are fairly finite. If you get hurt, become an invalid or worse paralyzed then what?

Your family gets to feed you, change your diapers, and guess what? If you are in the US your friggin insurance will probably not cover you for very long. You can no longer make love to your wife, or hold your kids, you sure as hell won;t be a photographer. Forget work without some serious PT to retrain your next to useless body.

People just do not THINK about what could happen...

[Todd Lambert]

All of those things could happen anywhere anytime anyways. You guys are living in a padded cell.

[SOK]

All of those things could happen anywhere anytime anyways. You guys are living in a padded cell.

:rolleyes:

I actually thought you were taking the pi$$ when you said;

I pay taxes too, just saying.

...but I'm guessing by the post above you were serious.

Using a bit of common sense does not equal "living in a padded cell"...by your logic I suppose drinking and driving would be considered a thrill seeking activity?

[FlyingPhotog]

So does that mean I'm waisting my time doing a pre-flight inspection, filing a flight plan and communicating my intentions to Air Traffic Control (none of which I really have to do...) because I might get T-Boned by a double-bottomed gravel hauler while driving to or from the airport?

Anybody remember Steve Fossett?

[20droger]

...But the fact is, once you've been missing for a day or so and Search & Rescue missions are mounted, taxpayers start footing the bill....
We here in Arizona get lots of flash floods and have lots of nice arid desert, either of which a lot of people don't seem to understand. We got tired of spending our tax dollars rescuing fools, so we passed a "stupid" law.

If you have to be rescued (or your body retrieved) because you did something stupid, like trying to drive through a flooded wash or go hiking without water and a hat, you (or your estate) will be billed for every penny spent.

And trust me, we WILL collect, one way or the other.

[20droger]

So does that mean I'm waisting my time doing a pre-flight inspection, filing a flight plan and communicating my intentions to Air Traffic Control (none of which I really have to do...) because I might get T-Boned by a double-bottomed gravel hauler while driving to or from the airport?

Anybody remember Steve Fossett?
Do what you like, as long as you don't take to flying like a Northwest Airlines pilot.

Flying high in the sky I'll be with you by and by...

Emphasis on "high"!

Steve Fossett, let's see. Search costs—approx. $690,000 spent by California, $1,600,000 spent by Nevada, and $1,000,000 spent by his family for private searches, mostly because he didn't bother to file a flight plan because he didn't have to. And he flew a plane with an emergency beacon known to be prone to fail during a crash (really good beacon to trust your life to!).

Is that the Steve Fossett you mean?

[Todd Lambert]

It can be, that's for sure.

Nah, my comments reflect something that often happens on here, people post about things that they don't normally do themselves.

Look, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be careful, prepared, etc... they should. NO doubt about it. However, I've done things very similar to this guy, and I think a lot of people on here have/do. Things happen. It's called life. You're much more likely to get killed in an auto accident than you are hiking in the woods.

I got into a habit of shooting night stuff in some very bad places. I often drive around bad areas at night looking for something to shoot. Most times I have no idea where I'm going. I get in the car and I drive. If something catches my eye, type of thing. More often than not, I end up in some very industrial areas which are generally in a bad section of town.

Recently, I did a series of shoots in the 9th Ward in lower New Orleans, which is about par with shooting in Afghanistan. It's virtually lawless and with a population of less than 8,000 people for a large metropolitan city region, there are no cops and often times they don't respond to calls from the area anyways because of the hazard of doing so.

This is MUCH more risky than going less than a mile off the beaten path somewhere.

That said, I always have a phone, 5-cell maglite, and my handgun with me. That helps to make me feel better, but it doesn't really make things any safer.

Same thing goes for hiking. You can bring every bit of gear needed, fall down a hole and die. Get mauled by a bear and die. Dead tree turns widowmaker and you die. All of the prep and gear didn't do a thing to protect you.

Life is full of choices and circumstances, but in the end, your number is either up or it isn't. You're either going to make it or you aren't. It really doesn't make any difference where you are or what you're doing.

Knowing this, I don't bother worrying too much about things like this when doing this hobby. As I said, I enjoy doing this more than anything else, and short of doing the things I can to limit the risk, there is nothing going to keep me from doing it.

[-g-]

We here in Arizona get lots of flash floods and have lots of nice arid desert, either of which a lot of people don't seem to understand. We got tired of spending our tax dollars rescuing fools, so we passed a "stupid" law.

If you have to be rescued (or your body retrieved) because you did something stupid, like trying to drive through a flooded wash or go hiking without water and a hat, you (or your estate) will be billed for every penny spent.

And trust me, we WILL collect, one way or the other.

This is also in effect here. I doubt our photographer friend will get a bill though.

[20droger]

It can be, that's for sure.

Nah, my comments reflect something that often happens on here, people post about things that they don't normally do themselves.

Look, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be careful, prepared, etc... they should. NO doubt about it. However, I've done things very similar to this guy, and I think a lot of people on here have/do. Things happen. It's called life. You're much more likely to get killed in an auto accident than you are hiking in the woods.

I got into a habit of shooting night stuff in some very bad places. I often drive around bad areas at night looking for something to shoot. Most times I have no idea where I'm going. I get in the car and I drive. If something catches my eye, type of thing. More often than not, I end up in some very industrial areas which are generally in a bad section of town.

Recently, I did a series of shoots in the 9th Ward in lower New Orleans, which is about par with shooting in Afghanistan. It's virtually lawless and with a population of less than 8,000 people for a large metropolitan city region, there are no cops and often times they don't respond to calls from the area anyways because of the hazard of doing so.

This is MUCH more risky than going less than a mile off the beaten path somewhere.

That said, I always have a phone, 5-cell maglite, and my handgun with me. That helps to make me feel better, but it doesn't really make things any safer.

Same thing goes for hiking. You can bring every bit of gear needed, fall down a hole and die. Get mauled by a bear and die. Dead tree turns widowmaker and you die. All of the prep and gear didn't do a thing to protect you.

Life is full of choices and circumstances, but in the end, your number is either up or it isn't. You're either going to make it or you aren't. It really doesn't make any difference where you are or what you're doing.

Knowing this, I don't bother worrying too much about things like this when doing this hobby. As I said, I enjoy doing this more than anything else, and short of doing the things I can to limit the risk, there is nothing going to keep me from doing it.
And all we said is chance favors the prepared.

And as I said, we'll miss you.

[neilwood32]

It can be, that's for sure.

Nah, my comments reflect something that often happens on here, people post about things that they don't normally do themselves.

Look, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be careful, prepared, etc... they should. NO doubt about it. However, I've done things very similar to this guy, and I think a lot of people on here have/do. Things happen. It's called life. You're much more likely to get killed in an auto accident than you are hiking in the woods.

But we buy cars that are developed for safety (seatbelts/airbags/ crumple zones). Hiking in the woods with no gear= driving an antique car at 70mph (I dont rate your chances in a crash)

I got into a habit of shooting night stuff in some very bad places. I often drive around bad areas at night looking for something to shoot. Most times I have no idea where I'm going. I get in the car and I drive. If something catches my eye, type of thing. More often than not, I end up in some very industrial areas which are generally in a bad section of town.

Recently, I did a series of shoots in the 9th Ward in lower New Orleans, which is about par with shooting in Afghanistan. It's virtually lawless and with a population of less than 8,000 people for a large metropolitan city region, there are no cops and often times they don't respond to calls from the area anyways because of the hazard of doing so.

This is MUCH more risky than going less than a mile off the beaten path somewhere.

That said, I always have a phone, 5-cell maglite, and my handgun with me. That helps to make me feel better, but it doesn't really make things any safer.

So what would you want the police telling your family when you die there? "He loved taking photos so thats why the crackheads killed him to sell his $5000 gear for $100 dollars for their next hit". Not me.

Same thing goes for hiking. You can bring every bit of gear needed, fall down a hole and die. Get mauled by a bear and die. Dead tree turns widowmaker and you die. All of the prep and gear didn't do a thing to protect you.

But if you prepare properly (and use sense), these accidents are far less likely and their effects are minimised. Take bear mauling -if your in a bear area, bring a gun and ammo, pepper spray, air horn and you are a lot less likely to be mauled. Walk in in shorts and a T shirt = no chance of protection.

Life is full of choices and circumstances, but in the end, your number is either up or it isn't. You're either going to make it or you aren't. It really doesn't make any difference where you are or what you're doing.

It does make a difference what your doing - if you are situationally aware, you stand a far better chance of not being injured in the first place or minimising the effect if you are hurt. Taking photos is fine but be aware of whats happening or can happen around you. Thats the difference.

Knowing this, I don't bother worrying too much about things like this when doing this hobby. As I said, I enjoy doing this more than anything else, and short of doing the things I can to limit the risk, there is nothing going to keep me from doing it.

I'm quite certain you would feel very guilty if you were hiking, got injured because you didnt take precautions and someone died or was seriously injured trying to rescue you. Or wouldnt that bother you?

[LBaldwin]

All of those things could happen anywhere anytime anyways. You guys are living in a padded cell.

What really chaps my a$$ is that I plan all shoots very carefully with safety at the top of the list. You will probably live forever and I will get hit by a wayward bus... lol

[FlyingPhotog]

What really chaps my a$$ is that I plan all shoots very carefully with safety at the top of the list. You will probably live forever and I will get hit by a wayward bus... lol

Can I have your Wemberly? :p

[LBaldwin]

Can I have your Wemberly? :p

Well I guess you're back ain't ya!! Ya have to be able s.p.e.l.l. Wimberley first wise guy :p

The wife sez NO! it will back on ebay before my corpse gets scrapped off the front of the #69 bus... DOH!

I do like however, that Karl was as well prepared as he was. If anything I want all of us to come home in one piece without casts or bandaids and lie about the shot that got away.

I felt so sorry for that family that got lost two years ago. The Dad decided to go and search for help, turned into a popsicle.

[FlyingPhotog]

Well I guess you're back ain't ya!! Ya have to be able s.p.e.l.l. Wimberley first wise guy :p

The wife sez NO! it will back on ebay before my corpse gets scrapped off the front of the #69 bus... DOH!

I do like however, that Karl was as well prepared as he was. If anything I want all of us to come home in one piece without casts or bandaids and lie about the shot that got away.

I felt so sorry for that family that got lost two years ago. The Dad decided to go and search for help, turned into a popsicle.

Definately a sad story.

BTW, that would be s c r a p e d off the bus, Wise-r Guy! :lol: