Is it possible. . . . . .

[Narniaman]

Okay, here's the question. . . . .

Watching the Women's College World Series national championships this last week I was impressed with how the TV cameras could zoom in on the batters (from the outfield) and essentially wind up with a full frame "portrait" view -- nice and sharp, with good contrast.

I have a Canon 20D with a EF US 75-300 lens. From the outfield I can't get a picture anywhere near as good as I see on TV.

What type of lens would give me the type of picture that I'm seeing on TV? I'm guessing that it would probably have to be a L series 800 mm prime lens, or something like that.

Is it possible to get that type of shot without spending $10,000 for some real nice glass?

[EricKonieczny]

Nope it is not possible for less than $5000.

Here is the biggest lense that BH sells for the 20D

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=186153&is=USA



That lens will look like a bargain when you look at how much the video camcorders cost that ESPN and the major netwoeks use. They are in the range of 50-100K, for the basic, plus lenses and such

[Dante King]

remember that the resolution for STD TV NTSC is 72dpi. Thats pretty poor compared to print resolution.

[RbrtPtikLeoSeny]

No way does reach like that come cheap! Biggest lens canon makes is the 1200mm which costs like, $80,000-$100,000. 600mm f/4L with a 1.4x t-con..... or,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=381605&is=REG
that with a t-con....

Soooo much money! And I couldn't imagine anyone using lenses like that with a 20D. :-)

[spoolin_photography]

what about the sigma 50-500mm f/4.0-6.3 EX APO RF HSM
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=192449&is=USA

[jimsolt]

Okay, here's the question. . . . .

Watching the Women's College World Series national championships this last week I was impressed with how the TV cameras could zoom in on the batters (from the outfield) and essentially wind up with a full frame "portrait" view -- nice and sharp, with good contrast.

I have a Canon 20D with a EF US 75-300 lens. From the outfield I can't get a picture anywhere near as good as I see on TV.

What type of lens would give me the type of picture that I'm seeing on TV? I'm guessing that it would probably have to be a L series 800 mm prime lens, or something like that.

Is it possible to get that type of shot without spending $10,000 for some real nice glass?

Maybe something like this is what you had in mind. I gather you are independently wealthy:D.

The new high-powered zoom lens is designed for HD cameras with 2/3in. CCDs and provides focal lengths of 8.9-900mm (1X) and 17.8-1800mm via a 2X extender. At 252mm x 252mm x 666mm in size and weighing 50lbs., the XA101x8.9BESM zoom is sure to fit a range of live sports and news event coverage applications.

Fujinon is a major manufacturer and distributor of optics and lens assemblies for the broadcast, digital cinema, and industrial markets. The company's line of television zoom lenses are used in virtually every segment of the broadcast industry, including electronic newsgathering, studio and field production, and high-definition television. For more information about Fujinon broadcast and communications products, call (973) 633-5600 or visit the website at www.fujinonbroadcast.com (http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/).

[lostdoggy]

Fujinon is not the only game in town Canon offers, if you have the money, Super Digi 100 SX, 100X9.3BIE-D
Here is a picture:
http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_bctv/p_field_DIGISUPER100XS_intro.shtml

[ScottE]

Nope it is not possible for less than $5000.

Here is the biggest lense that BH sells for the 20D (link to Canon 600 f/4 listing)

This one is bigger and it is less than $5,000 USD.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=263428&is=REG

Scott

[RichardtheSane]

I doubl there is an lens that you can use in the stands to get that close.
Even at 1200mm I doubt you would.

But remember the sensor size of these video camera's is really small, much smaller than the 20D, so they don't need huge lenses to achieve the same field of view as an slr.

[Mycroft]

remember that the resolution for STD TV NTSC is 72dpi. Thats pretty poor compared to print resolution.

Actually, it's not. In order to have a fixed DPI, you would have to have a variable source resolution as the size of the screen changes. i.e. if you have a 21 inch screen, you would require fewer lines of resolution than a 36 inch screen to maintain 72 DPI.

NTSC Broadcast transmissions are also not directly comparable to computer/digital resolution, as it is a purely analog system. Resolution is measured in lines, and for NTSC it is 330. That is, 330 distinct lines drawn vertically from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen. This is the horzontal resolution you may have heard about. There are always 525 horizontal scan lines on an NTSC TV (625 for PAL, not all are used for picture in both systems, and NOT the same as horizontal RESOLUTION) no matter what source material you use, whether VHS, BETA, Laserdisc, DVD, satellite, etc.

The larger your television, the worse the resolution-per-inch will be.

FYI, VHS has 220-240 lines, ED-BETA has 500 lines, Laserdisc has 420 lines, DVD has 500-520 lines (depending on which manufacturer you ask).

How do I know this? Four years in an electronics lab, and far too many to count spent building and tweaking home theater systems.

[jimsolt]

Fujinon is not the only game in town Canon offers, if you have the money, Super Digi 100 SX, 100X9.3BIE-D
Here is a picture:
http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_bctv/p_field_DIGISUPER100XS_intro.shtml

I wasn't selling Fujinon lenses. That was just the first example I came upon for pointing out the lens being sought was not your typical corner photo store item and the $10,000 price mentioned might be more like a small down payment. Yes, lots of TV cameras come equipped with Canon lenses and they are quite good.

Jim

[Jon]

The other thing to remember is that the TV cameras typically have a smaller sensor, so designing large zoom range lenses is much easier. For instance, Canon's ZR-300 offers a 22x zoom (44-972 mm equiv.) and costs less than a 70-200 f/4. That's the whole ZR-300, not just a lens.

[montreal]

Also, remember that professional TV camera lenses are very expensive. On a regular news "shoulder camera", the lens is actually just as expensive as the body. I've been told this by a colleague of mine (I work for a broadcasting company). I can't remember the price exactly but it was around 20 thousand canadian $ (16 thousand USD)

[jimsolt]

The other thing to remember is that the TV cameras typically have a smaller sensor, so designing large zoom range lenses is much easier. For instance, Canon's ZR-300 offers a 22x zoom (44-972 mm equiv.) and costs less than a 70-200 f/4. That's the whole ZR-300, not just a lens.

Somehow, Jon, I don't think ESPN has many of these cameras and I don't think that's what the original question was about. To compare a commercial tv camera and lens to this low end home video recorder is like comparing a matchbox car to a Ferrari.

Jim

[RichardtheSane]

Somehow, Jon, I don't think ESPN has many of these cameras and I don't think that's what the original question was about. To compare a commercial tv camera and lens to this low end home video recorder is like comparing a matchbox car to a Ferrari.

Jim
Seems like it was an example of how video / tv cameras have a very different focal range because of the smaller sensor size, not a comparison of equal technology.

Which I also think answerd the OP's question pretty well.

[jimsolt]

Seems like it was an example of how video / tv cameras have a very different focal range because of the smaller sensor size, not a comparison of equal technology.

Which I also think answerd the OP's question pretty well.

In my opinion the original question was,

"What type of lens would give me the type of picture that I'm seeing on TV? I'm guessing that it would probably have to be a L series 800 mm prime lens, or something like that.

Is it possible to get that type of shot without spending $10,000 for some real nice glass?"

and the suggestion of a $300 dollar camera and lens did not really answer the question.

And I don't think the sensor size in a TV camera plays much of a role in answering this question. It does make a difference, but it is not the answer. Of course my 40 years in TV production does prejudice my view somewhat, but you can't get a similar picture and zooming capability with the low end camera/lens. If you could, ESPN, always out to save some bucks, would be saving them in the hundreds of thousands by making this switch.

Jim

[CyberDyneSystems]

I think Jon was trying to point out why you CAN'T get that kind of zoom in a 20D lens...

And the answer is becuase that kind of Zoom is only available to the Video industry because fo the smaller sensor size and the resulting "crop factor" ... so yes the sensor size of the Pro video camera has everything to do with it.

To use s lightly more down to earth camera as an example (only because I am more familiar with the math involved) The Canon XL2 has about a 6X crop factor if I recall correctly.. which means that hooked up to a 100-400mm f/5.6L IS lens you would have a resulting 600-2400mm feild of view....

Without that insane feild of view factor resulting from the smaller CCDs on the video camera (yes even on the high end pro cameras) the idea of a lens to accomplish this is nearly impossible.

It doesn't matter what price is attached to the lens in question.. the principle remains the same.



Anyways,. the lenses that you can get for your 20D that will bring you into the ball park for under $80K are the 600mm f/4L IS as well as the 300-800mm ScottE mentioned...

[Hellashot]

what about the sigma 50-500mm f/4.0-6.3 EX APO RF HSM
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=192449&is=USA

I agree. There are a lot cheaper zooms out there than Canon. Or even the Sigma 300-800 with a 2x that'll put it past Canon's 1200mm for such a small percentage of the price.