Please look at these pics

[gdl357]

http://www.giorgiophotos.com/p530887068/h31c215e0#h31c215e0

Tell me if my 70-200mm f/4 IS is not made for this and what lens I need. I am very dissapointed in these pics and think they are horrible, but since this is the first time I use this lens and my 50D on AI Servo I will let it pass. My family loves the results, but I know I can do way better.

Is the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS called for here? I really can't afford another high end $2K lens unless the f/4 gets sold. Maybe something from Sigma?

Is it something I did wrong in the settings maybe?

The place was indoors and well lit up with Metal-Halide lights. I was shooting on Auto ISO, AV, High Speed, AI Servo hand held an usually shooting 100mm - 200mm out.

Thx

[HighPixel]

1/50th & 1/30th shutter speed WILL NOT WORK IN SPORTS! You will need pretty much jack up your ISO all the way to get your SS at least to @1/500th min. in order to eliminate the camera blur. Do a custom white balance for those indoor lights...as majority of them are terrible. Try Manual instead of AV.
Ron

[DHMN]

Your biggest problem I see is you shot through a net (on the ones I looked at)..and it shows.. maybe a 2.8 would allow for better view through the black net.

[gdl357]

1/50th & 1/30th shutter speed WILL NOT WORK IN SPORTS! You will need pretty much jack up your ISO all the way to get your SS at least to @1/500th min. in order to eliminate the camera blur. Do a custom white balance for those indoor lights...as majority of them are terrible. Try Manual instead of AV.
Ron

The camera was choosing ISO1600 so I figured it was enough.
OK...I will have to go to ISO 3200 or HI (6400) in order to get 1/500 and over.

Thx

[STONEBLUE]

I shoot indoor sports and I never shoot action shots below 1/500 shutter speed. If there is not enough light after adjusting the ISO as high as possible, then consider using flash. I find myself using flash more and more these days. Good luck.
Jeff

[willshoot4food]

...

[myron]

I agree with all the preceding info.
I shoot indoors quite a lot during my son's gymnastics competitions. Terrible lighting! Even with my f2.8 (which I love) I do need to trade-off noise for shutter speed (high ISO is needed). Shoot in RAW so you can adjust the White Balance later. Obviously it depends on the sport in question but 1/250 can work.

[DC Fan]

Is it something I did wrong in the settings maybe?

The problem isn't with the lens or the settings, it's with the location. You needed to be at field level on the sidelines to get properly framed images. You also need far more experience at sports action photography to understand how to get the best images at an event. The only way to get that experience is to spend more time at games, at better locations, and use that time to figure out what to do. Equipment doesn't equal a sense of action or the timing needed to be effective at sports photography.

[Sibil]

I was shooting on Auto ISO, AV, High Speed, AI Servo hand held ...........

The camera was choosing ISO1600 so I figured it was enough.

Is this a 50D feature? I am confused. If you are in Av, how can the ISO be on Auto? I must be missing something here.

[gromeo]

Nikon has had this feature for a long time, Canon is putting it in newer cameras

From the Canon for the 50D
ISO Speed (Recommended Exposure Index)
Basic Zone modes: ISO 100-1600 set automatically
Creative Zone modes: ISO 100-3200 (in 1/3-stop increments), Auto, or ISO speed can be expanded to ISO 6400 or ISO 12800
Extension settable (with C.Fn.I-3-1): ISO 12800
High Tone Priority settable: ISO 200-1600

[rhodesx6]

Is this a 50D feature? I am confused. If you are in Av, how can the ISO be on Auto? I must be missing something here.

Unless they changed the 50D you can shoot AV and Auto ISO. My 40D does it.

I have to agree with everythng i have read. Your main issues are being behind the net and your SS. To me at ground-level #7 was a promising shot but at the angle used it was a snapshot. Soccer is best shot from ground-level and youth soccer is best shot from either sitting on stool pr the ground. Your angle is much more pleasing.

[ceegee]

You can't shoot a moving subject at 1/50th and get a clear pic; you need 1/500 at the very least, and that's hard to achieve in many indoor arenas. In addition, for these shots you were too far away. Is there any way of getting a pitch-side seat?

If flash is allowed, it might be your best solution in this venue.

[gdl357]

Hey guys I just realized I may have gotten into something a little more complex than I thought. LOL.

I can get at level ground and center because I know the coaches.

Maybe a prime would work, like a Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM or the EF 135mm f/2L USM ?

I hate to let go of my 70-200...it's so darn sharp.

[MT Stringer]

You can shoot through the net with your existing equipment. You just need to get the front of the lens as close to the net as possible and it will work OK for you. I shot a softball pitcher warming up (http://mtstringer.smugmug.com/Sports/Softball/Texas-Storm/9717440_Ah5gh#663344097_ZQK9y-A-LB) through the chain link backstop with a 100-400L at f/5.6 and the fence didn't show in the picture.

You need more power and faster lens if you are going to get serious with this type of sport. A 300 f/2.8, Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 or Canon 200 f/2.8 or 135L f/2.0 are some of the choices. None of them are cheep!

I had to shoot at ISO 6400, f/2.0 with a 135L at a volleyball game. If I hadn't had the 135 with me, I would have turned around and went home. The 70-200 f/2.8 didn't cut it. It was a dark gym.

Also, for indoor sports , I usually shoot in manual exposure control, hopefully at 1/400 sec SS or better, and whatever else is required as for ISO and f/stop.
Good luck.
Mike

[tpatana]

Also there is no need for an IS lens if you plan on shooting only sports.

This is something surprisingly few understand. I'm sure here most know that, but quite often I've stumbled on people planning to upgrade to IS as they need more speed for sports.

[wyofizz]

+1 on HighPixels advice. I looked at the Exif and saw 1/50 SS.
You need a faster shutter speed for sports.

[willshoot4food]

...

[gdl357]

If you plan on really getting into sports I would suggest selling the 70-200mm f4 and get a 70-200mm f2.8 if you plan on dumping some money into primes I would say look around for an older 300mm f2.8 non IS they go for around $2400-$2900. I am able to get by with both of thoose lenses 95% of the time.

Thank you.

I may look into getting the 2.8 but I don't forsee myself getting into sports because there are not to many people that are willing to pay for pics of their son here. I just did it for my brother in law. If I would have taken the time to notice I was shooting at 1/50, I would have tried to help correct the situation by going 6400ISO and this would have given me 1/400+ which would have yeilded better pictures.

It is by taking pics of different situations that a person sees how important lens are. 10X mor than the camera. Right now, I kind of regret having bought f/4 lens. I think I will do a cleanup and start getting fast primes.

The 200f/2.8 at under $800 new is looking good right now, maybe find one used.

[JeffreyG]

These shots were at ISO 1600, f/4 and 1/50

1. Go to ISO 6400 and 1/200. This might be marginally OK for kids as young as this, though foot and ball will still be blurred a bit on a kick. Older atheletes would be blurred to much at 1/200 all the time.

2. Get a faster lens. f/2.8 gets you to 1/400 at ISO6400 and f/2 gets you to 1/800, or let's you back of on that high ISO a bit to reduce noise.

And as everyone said, get on the sidelines.

Here is one more though....will this kid play outside next spring? Waiting till spring might be the cheapest route to great photos.

[gdl357]

These shots were at ISO 1600, f/4 and 1/50

1. Go to ISO 6400 and 1/200. This might be marginally OK for kids as young as this, though foot and ball will still be blurred a bit on a kick. Older atheletes would be blurred to much at 1/200 all the time.

2. Get a faster lens. f/2.8 gets you to 1/400 at ISO6400 and f/2 gets you to 1/800, or let's you back of on that high ISO a bit to reduce noise.

And as everyone said, get on the sidelines.

Here is one more though....will this kid play outside next spring? Waiting till spring might be the cheapest route to great photos.

Thx Jeffrey, like all that have posted here...great Info.

Yes he does play outside in a park, spring/summer/autumn winter he's inside. I have never seen the parck and if it is well lit or not.

I will also look into getting a grey card learning how to do a custom white balance. I always shoot in RAW.

Thx

[MT Stringer]

During the recent basketball tournament, I turned off the IS on my 70-200 f/2.8 mainly to conserve my battery. I do carry a spare battery just in case.

[ChasWG]

Thx Jeffrey, like all that have posted here...great Info.

Yes he does play outside in a park, spring/summer/autumn winter he's inside. I have never seen the parck and if it is well lit or not.

I will also look into getting a grey card learning how to do a custom white balance. I always shoot in RAW.

Thx

Outside, even on a grey, overcast day your f4 will be fine. The human eye and brain can deal pretty well with a huge range of light that cameras can not. Indoor lighting is amazingly nasty and dark. I have shot both my son's football and daughters soccer with my 70-200 f4 L and have some excellent results with it, outdoors.
Now it's basketball season and I think the wonderfully sharp f4 will sit idle unless I can get strobes in the gyms. A 50 1.8 on a crop body turns into an 80mm, under the backboard is where that will work. I still want a 135 f2, but I dought that's happening anytime soon. :(

[gdl357]

http://www.giorgiophotos.com/p270438628/h115dda9f#h1c746ff3

Hey guys do you see an improvement? SECOND BATCH OF PICS, SAME PLACE SAME TIME.

I tried to do what you all told me to. This is the best I can do with my 50D and my 70-200 f/4 IS.

I really need to get a 2.8 IS or a 2.0 prime. No way out.

Thx

[DHMN]

They are better, you got down low to their height which helps a lot with the little guys (or girls)...the next step besides the obvious buying the F2.8 would probably be tighter (crops) and straighter (horizons), and maybe be more selective, rather than posting a picture like #20 where the player is out of focus and we kind of see a coach in focus behind.

Pictures of the back of heads from way back like some in the 30-40 ranges of your gallery seem rather useless too.. unless you were getting a closer shot with the kid kicking the ball at the net maybe. Just a few thoughts at almost 3 am!

[JeffCanon]

What focusing mode are you using?

[gdl357]

They are better, you got down low to their height which helps a lot with the little guys (or girls)...the next step besides the obvious buying the F2.8 would probably be tighter (crops) and straighter (horizons), and maybe be more selective, rather than posting a picture like #20 where the player is out of focus and we kind of see a coach in focus behind.

Pictures of the back of heads from way back like some in the 30-40 ranges of your gallery seem rather useless too.. unless you were getting a closer shot with the kid kicking the ball at the net maybe. Just a few thoughts at almost 3 am!

Super great info...I really appreciate your input to making me better.

[gdl357]

What focusing mode are you using?

AISERVO in AV mode

[Coach21]

Holy Toledo!

What an improvement! Nicely done. That's what this place is all about isn't it? People helping each other. Wow. I love to see that concept come to fruition. Way to go P.O.T.N. and it's members.

Andy

[SiaoP]

My standard is something faster than 1/800, ISO around 2000, center AF point, AI Servo, and aperture as wide as possible. If you can get 1/800 with f4 then that's fine. But the 2.8 allows you to decrease the ISO if it's too dark. Also the 2.8 allows greater bokeh which some prefer.

[Sibil]

http://www.giorgiophotos.com/p270438628/h115dda9f#h1c746ff3

Hey guys do you see an improvement? SECOND BATCH OF PICS, SAME PLACE SAME TIME.

I tried to do what you all told me to. This is the best I can do with my 50D and my 70-200 f/4 IS.

I really need to get a 2.8 IS or a 2.0 prime. No way out.

Thx
Much improved. Yes, there is very little around faster lens.

[gdl357]

Hi all...good news for me..

I just sold my 70-200 f/4 and got a 70-200 2.8 IS new in box for $1550.

NOW I just can't wait to take some more shots of the little dudes.

[aztwang]

I saw that post....Great snag!!

[plasticmotif]

Nice pickup.

Also, IS DOES help for sports, especially while panning.

[gdl357]

guys ... now I know why he is giving such a good deal for the 70-200 2.8 IS. He has no proof of purchase and no warranty card. What do I do, take it or not?

[canonnoob]

guys ... now I know why he is giving such a good deal for the 70-200 2.8 IS. He has no proof of purchase and no warranty card. What do I do, take it or not?

try it out... you can always still send it in to canon... youll just have to pay..

[gdl357]

try it out... you can always still send it in to canon... youll just have to pay..

Yeah he let it go for $1500 shipped and paypalled...I guess I got a Good deal. It has the bag and hood plus I just bought a filter so I need the lens HAHA.

Thx all.