WTB: Lighting Gear

[Z FOTOTECHNIKA]

Hello fellow photogs!

I am looking to get some expert opinions and possibly a good deal on some lighting gear. I am currently doing photography as a side business to get some extra income. I would like to enhance my photography skills by adding some lighting gear to my ever growing collection.

What setup/starting lighting gear would you all recommend that could be used both in my apartment and outside. I'm looking to stay under $500 budget, but open to suggestions.

Thank you,

Max

[shortpballer]

Would recommend Alienbees. Going to probably run you more than 500. If you want to do on location you are going to need a battery which is going to run you ATLEAST 350.

Eric

[sjlund]

What do you shoot? Portraits? If you want to shoot outdoors on battery power for under $500, I don't see any other option than to go the strobist route. If you want to stay indoors or have access to AC power wherever you go, I can recommend the Calumet Genesis strobes. I have a set of the 200's and would like to pick up another pair. They are currently on sale at Calumet as well.

[57hardtop]

What do you shoot? Portraits? If you want to shoot outdoors on battery power for under $500, I don't see any other option than to go the strobist route. If you want to stay indoors or have access to AC power wherever you go, I can recommend the Calumet Genesis strobes. I have a set of the 200's and would like to pick up another pair. They are currently on sale at Calumet as well.

Hi Max...I recommend the Calumet Genesis...IMO there's nothing better in this price range...period!
Alien Bees are more expensive and they're not digital. And don't believe it when someone tells you that you can't get modestly priced accessories for the Genesis because they use the Elinchrom style mounts. There are manufacturers coming out of the woodwork these days with decent quality accessories (every bit as good as the Alien Bee accessories from Paul C Buff) at very fair prices ;)

Calumet Genesis 400 two light kit w/stands and umbrellas, each a true 400Ws
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0514K1/

Calumet Genesis 200 two light kit w/stands and umbrellas, each a true 200Ws
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0502K1/

Alien Bee B400's are a true 160Ws...not 400Ws
Alien Bee B800's are a true 320Ws...not 800Ws

The only problem with the Genesis series lights is that up until now, there hasn't been a battery pack that is compatible with them to take them outdoors. Alien Bees have the edge there with the Vagabond battery units...but now a company called Innovatronix has introduced a battery pack that is supposed to be compatible with the Genesis, so we have to wait and see.

[Z FOTOTECHNIKA]

Thank you for all the suggestions guys!

I have another questions now. What are the big differences between the umbrellas and the soft box setups? From what I understand the soft boxes are better to use for close range portraiture and the umbrellas are better for those subjects farther away. Am I totally off here?

The purpose of the lighting for me would be to do car shoots outside and portraits of people inside.

Like I said $500 was just a ballpark budget figure. I would like to get a good quality lighting setup that I don't have to worry about upgrading after a couple years.

[57hardtop]

Max, you are correct...umbrellas are generally used to light larger areas, or larger groups of people. They are better than softboxes at getting the light spread out over a greater area. Softboxes are better for people portraits because they produce a softer light. thus the name, and they also allow you to direct the light better than the spread of light from an umbrella. Both Genesis kits (umbrellas or softboxes) are exceptionally good deals right now because they are on sale (until sometime in January I believe), but if you aren't sure what to get (if you're leaning towards the Genesis), the softbox kits are the much better value...you're saving much more money with those kits than the umbrella kits. Umbrellas are relatively inexpensive, so I would opt for getting the softbox kit, and purchase the umbrellas seperately. If you were to buy the umbrella kit, it will cost you more (total dollars spent) to buy the softboxes after the fact...hope that made sense ;)

Edit: This may not be true if the softboxes are also on sale :oops:

[57hardtop]

Like I said $500 was just a ballpark budget figure. I would like to get a good quality lighting setup that I don't have to worry about upgrading after a couple years.

The Genesis lights will take you as far along in your career as the Alien Bees (and they are a better value). You will be able to grow with them for quite some time unless you have a need for pro gear, but that's another ballgame...neither the Alien Bees or Genesis are pro lights, but that doesn't mean pros don't use them (either brand) :D

Just for the record, I'm not bashing the Bees, it's just that when they came out, they were the only good quality lights that were available at a price amateurs could afford (and they are cute and trendy). They got a very good reputation (and rightly so) because they were/are good lights, and the customer service at Paul C Buff Inc (makers of Alien Bees) is one of the best there is (other companies should use them as a role model...really). That was then though, this is now...the Genesis lights from Calumet came out as direct competition to challenge the Bees market, and they came out swinging. Their lights are built like the proverbial brick sh!thouse, they are reliable, more powerful and less expensive (even when they aren't on sale). They have also been out long enough now to prove their reliability and for the experts to give their opinions, and you'll be hard pressed to find one that will tell you that the Alien Bees are superior. It would only be fair to also tell you the Genesis' shortcomings...that if you will need more than 400Ws per light, you can't get that with the Genesis lights, 400Ws is their most powerful. If you need more power, Alien Bees have a model that is 640Ws (true Ws).

Another brand you may be interested in looking at is the Elinchrom D-lite series in 200Ws and 400Ws versions, although those are more expensive than either the Bees or the Genesis, and may be out of your $ range.

[Z FOTOTECHNIKA]

What do you think would be a better choice between the three below?

The Genessis 400 Softbox kit with 1 light
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0514K2/

Or the local camera store Pro Deluxe Sudio Kit
http://www.rockbrookcamera.com/browse.cfm/4,1151.html

Elinchrom
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/EL3050K1/

[57hardtop]

The Genesis kit you linked to is a single 400Ws light with stand and 24x32 softbox for $299

The Elinchrom kit you linked to is a single 200Ws light with the exact same stand and softbox for $499

There is no light brand in the world that is half the power and almost twice the cost (than the Genesis) that will get me to buy it because of it's name ;)

My money is on the Genesis, hands down without a doubt.

The Promaster kit you linked to...I can't find anything about them after a quick google search except that appear to be cheap, low quality lights that if they break you will have nowhere to go for repair or replacement...I personally wouldn't consider them.

There is no better value for a good quality light, with a warranty worth the paper its written on, on the market right now, than the Genesis lights...period. You can rest assured that they will be with you, performing stellarly, for looong time.

Max, just so you know what I have...I started with the Genesis 200Ws two light umbrella kit (paid full price $369), added the Genesis 400Ws one light softbox kit (paid full price $369 I think), and I intend to buy another Genesis 400Ws softbox kit while they are still on sale. I don't really need it right now (I have MORE than enough power right now), but it's too good of a deal to pass up, and sooner or later I'll probably need it for something :D

[Z FOTOTECHNIKA]

OK you have me convinced Roger :)

So is there a set of 2 softbox 400W kit for sale there? I couldn't find one.

Or is one light enough?

[57hardtop]

Max, after seeing that the softboxes are also on sale at Calumet, and if it were my money, I'd get THIS KIT (http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0514K1/), and buy THIS SOFTBOX (http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/RM3148/) seperately. It's a bigger softbox than the one that comes with the kits, and you want the biggest one you can afford to get started with. It'll put you about $50 over budget (not counting tax), but it's a fantastic set-up that'll give you many combinations to start out with. If you went with one softbox kit and one umbrella kit, you'll only have one of each and you'll be spending $550 plus tax...if you get the two light umbrella kit and buy the bigger softbox separately, you'll have two umbrellas and a bigger softbox for the same amount :D The umbrellas will take care of your needs for the car shoots (provided you have electricity to plug into), and the larger softbox will be great for portraits of people (and you can use an umbrella for fill light).

yup, that's what I'd do ;)

[sjlund]

I personally went with the umbrella kits. I figured that I could learn and make due with the umbrellas until I could afford some high quality modifiers, whether from Elinchrom themselves, or somewhere else. I would recommend the umbrella kits until you find the limitations of the umbrellas. Plus, umbrellas are just plain nice to have sometimes.

[edseiz]

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pho/1494482382.html

[telles75]

For under $500 your options are limited. You will have to go with the cheap entry level lines. I would say Alienbees are probably the best entry level lights out there. Too bad your budget is not above $1K or you would have some more reliable options for lighting like Elinchro, ProFoto, Broncolor, Bowens, etc...


I would like to get a good quality lighting setup that I don't have to worry about upgrading after a couple years.
This is a contradiction (good quality lights for $500).. Good quality lighting for under $1K will be hard to find (unless you get a superb deal).

My vote goes to AlienBees (Personally I would not buy them since I do not like the slow recharging time plus slow flash duration but I have friends that like them).

[57hardtop]

Rafael...yes, everyone knows the options are limited and entry level lights is the way to go...that's what this thread is about...but saying that there isn't anything decent available for under $1000 is not helpful...or true. That may be your opinion, and you certainly are entitled to it, and entitled to post it, but this is a forum for helping photographers of all levels. You were not born with a camera in your hand, shooting beautiful portraits like you do, from the start. You had to start somewhere too...and if you were lucky enough to have pro quality lights from the get go, more power to you.

Many photographers have to start with entry level gear and work their/our way up...and for those of us who don't have a ton of cash to spend on gear, there are options, good options, contrary to what you believe. Just have look around this forum for proof...there are literally thousands of beautiful photographs posted from people using "cheap entry level lines". As with camera gear, a good photographer can work with what he has even if its not the expensive top of the line equipment...the same goes for lighting. Light is light, and learning how to put it where want it, and how you want it, is what it's all about...and there ARE good quality entry level lights available to learn how to do that with.

You said "good quality lights for under $500" is a contradiction...I disagree...I guess it depends on everyone's definition of "good". For people looking at entry level lighting (obviously not pros or people with a lot of money), I believe they/we know they/we aren't going to get the top of the line, quick recycling lights that real pros use...they/we want something that will last a long time, be reliable, and if something does happen to break, they/we will be able to get parts easily or have someplace to send it back to to have it fixed. As for your recommendation for the Alien Bees, it's obvious you use pro quality lights and you haven't done your research in a long time on "cheap entry level lines" ;)

You are correct though about the recycling times...all entry level lights don't recycle as quick as pro lights do.

Sorry if that sounded like a rant Rafael, you have every right to your opinion and I respect that, but we should be encouraging people and show them how to get things done, not discouraging them :(
(btw, you certainly know how to use your lighting equipment, your photos are beautiful :D)

[telles75]

Sorry Roger, I guess I should had phrased my response better. I understand not everyone can afford top of the line gear (hell I wish I had $9K to get the ProFoto gear I wanted) and you might be right about getting something decent for $500.

However I wanted to make a point to the OP that the lights he will be in this bracket will not be HIGH quality as he mentioned in his second post. Sure they can produce nice results, but would they be High Quality? I doubt it... My main issue with "low end" lights (I think this sound more civilized than cheap lights..sorry about that) is the flash duration, recycling time and colour temperature inconsistencies. For some one coming from Speedlights a 2 second recycling time will be amazingly fast, but if you are used to strobes and shooting fast paced fashion poses you will think 2 secs are an eternity and here's where 0.3 sec recycle time becomes almost a necessity.

I wanted to offer my opinion, and by no means I wanted to sound like a jerk or snob, I apologize if I sounded that way.

[Z FOTOTECHNIKA]

Thank you for all the advise guys! I think I have all the information to make my decision now :)

[57hardtop]

No problem Rafael...you didn't sound like a jerk or snob, but you did sound very discouraging...like there isn't anything worth while in the entry level range. Also, I hope you don't think I was attacking your opinion. I respect your opinion...and from looking at your photographs on your websites, you certainly know how to produce beautiful work. :D

Just for the record tho, the color inconsistencies you mentioned are a known characteristic with the Alien Bees, not the Genesis lights. The Genesis lights hold their color throughout their range as well as any of the higher quality (but not pro quality) lights, as can be seen in the tests posted on this forum...for what they're worth ;)

I guess it all boils down to the definition of "decent" or "good quality" to an amateur is not necessarily the same as it is to a pro :)

[telles75]

I guess it all boils down to the definition of "decent" or "good quality" to an amateur is not necessarily the same as it is to a pro :)

I agree with you. The definition will vary greatly. I can tell you for a fact I have a better trained eye now than I did 2 years ago, but I am still years behind in real world practice to have the detailed eye that the Pros have, hence I guess spending $$ on a $9K light setup might be too much for my knowledge and would be under used. I am not that seasoned in lighting; as a matter a fact I have been using strobes for only 2 years (started with AlienBeeas, then moved to DLite4 and nowadays I shoot with Elinchrom 300RX), and for my level of photography I think they are more than enough.

I have no experience with the Genesis but the reviews sound very promising, not sure why people prefer to but the Alienbees though? Weird.