New EOS Soon? 40D or 1D Mark III?

[cubano100pct]

I noticed that there are rebates on the 20D and 1D Mark II bodies. Usually when there are rebates the manufacturer wants to clearout inventory for a new product line.

Any rumors of a 40D or 1D Mark III?

I have a 10D and ready to buy the next generation and use my 10D as my backup body instead of film.

Canon already had a EOS D30 before the EOS 10D, which can be easily confused with new EOS 30D. This why I put 40D as the replacement to the 20D.

[PaulB]

The rumour mill has been going strong over at dpreview for a while now.
Some of the rumours from possibly reliable (?) sources (but none from posters who I would expect to know, based on past form) seem strong indicators that there will be another Canon DSLR sometime this year - August/October time maybe.But it will not be a 20D replacement, nor a new 1DMk anything but a new body between the two.
As I have no knowledge personally (not like I had of the 1DMk2) I cannot comment further except to say that I do think that - following Canon's stated intentions - the 1D/1Ds line will eventually merge into one Pro body and the 20D and 350D lines will continue to be developed for the enthusiastic amateur/beginner hobbyists. This does leave a gap in the Canon DSLR range for an advanced amateur/semi-pro/pro backup body at some time in the future.
All still speculation though.

[Andy_T]

Cubano100%,

there are lots of other reasons in marketing theory for giving rebates.
I would definitely not read too much into it.

Also, keep in mind that unlike p&s digicams, where the prices start coming down the minute the camera has been launched, for DSLR's you pretty much have the same list price today than at the day they were launched. Those rebates might be the only amount the prices are coming down ... ever.

Best regards,
Andy

[shiato storm]

unless you look at the 300d that fell from £1000 to lower than £500...now can be found - if you're lucky - at around £300...

[mtndew]

With those other company releasing their products Canon is just keeping the interest in their product(s) thats why they offer the rebates.
I also have to agree with PaulB. It would be nice to see a model in between the markII's maybe with 10-12megapixels.

[lmh5107]

I hope there would be a EOS 3D :D

[MDJAK]

I would like to see the 1dsmkII morph into the speed of the 1dmkII, sport a 2.5 inch screen that can actually be seen in daylight, a battery like the D2X has, and maybe, just maybe built in IS so all lenses would benefit. I readily admit that I am not great at holding lenses steady, try as I might. In fact, my 100mm f/2.8 is impossible for me to hold steady and it's relatively compact.

[lostdoggy]

With the recent release of the 12MP Noink D2x at the same price range of the 1DMKII it wouldn't surprise me at all Canon will replace the 1DMKII with a full frame 12MP camera from the 1Ds. Hopefully they will improve on the LCD display to a 2.5". Also would like to see build-in wireless communication and remote control. Ability to seperate RAW and JPEG in the two different flash media simutaneously. Just my wish.

[cubano100pct]

With the recent release of the 12MP Noink D2x at the same price range of the 1DMKII it wouldn't surprise me at all Canon will replace the 1DMKII with a full frame 12MP camera from the 1Ds. Hopefully they will improve on the LCD display to a 2.5". Also would like to see build-in wireless communication and remote control. Ability to seperate RAW and JPEG in the two different flash media simutaneously. Just my wish.
I agree with the recent release of the Nikon D2x with 12.4MP and 1.5x focal length factor compared to the Canon EOS 1D Mark II, 8.5MP and 1.3X focal length factor for the same price, it would not surprise me to replace this camera with 12.xMP and full frame as the Canon EOS 1D Mark III and also have the Canon EOS 30D in the same MP range, but not full frame (maybe 1.3x).

[CoolToolGuy]

If Canon is introducing a new DSLR that they expect to sell in significant numbers to consumers (non-pros), it will almost certainly be announced and available by September to make the Christmas rush. There has been much chatter about an EOS 3 in digital, and I would like to see it. It could be that the 'EOS 3D' is announced this summer and the combined EOS 1D/1Ds is announced in January or February.

My opinion is that the biggest hurdle for the combined pro model is the write speed to the card. It previously was difficult to have a full-frame camera with frames-per-second fast enough to satisfy the sports shooters that would also want to use it. I think Canon has solved that, so the time may be soon.

Personally, I am hoping for some new/upgraded lenses.

Time will tell.

Have Fun,

[SDK^]

Canon have rebates on more than just cameras - lenses, Flash units, extenders etc and most of them are new releases i.e. 580EX Flash and 10-22mm lens.

A rebate doesn't mean they are going to replace anything, it's just a promotion :)

[cubano100pct]

I know rebates are use for promotions, but most of my experiences in the digital world is push out old models to bring in new ones. It would be great if they bring out full frame pro camera in the 12MP range for around $2500. EOS 3D would be great.

[tim]

I've posted reasonably reliable information about the new 12.8MP 5D in other threads. My contact isn't giving out any more information at this stage, and even if they were I couldn't share it :( The rumours confirm what i've heard.

[mvonditter]

I noticed that there are rebates on the 20D and 1D Mark II bodies. Usually when there are rebates the manufacturer wants to clearout inventory for a new product line.

Any rumors of a 40D or 1D Mark III?

I have a 10D and ready to buy the next generation and use my 10D as my backup body instead of film.

Canon already had a EOS D30 before the EOS 10D, which can be easily confused with new EOS 30D. This why I put 40D as the replacement to the 20D.

I have a 1D mkII and if the mkIII comes out, I'll sell you my 1Ds cheap. Well, sorta.:lol: :lol:

[mooseel]

Well, it's bound to happen at any moment! Why? Well I posed this very question a couple of months ago, and with no definite info. posted to my question, I finally decided to go ahead and get mine!

I ordered it on June 8th, and had it by the 14th. I found it for sale on www.newegg.com for $3989. That with the $500 Rebate made up my mind that I didn't want to wait any longer.

[cubano100pct]

I've posted reasonably reliable information about the new 12.8MP 5D in other threads. My contact isn't giving out any more information at this stage, and even if they were I couldn't share it :( The rumours confirm what i've heard.
I searched for EOS 5D in all forums and could not find that thread from you.

[roanjohn]

I can feel an announcement this July/August..........!!!!

I hope it only costs 2500!!! 45 Point AF................size of a 20D!!!

OOOHHHH!!! That would be soooo perfect.

Ro1

[Sprout Crumble]

Would be a cool idea. No way its 1.3x though. Its going to be a 1.6x version of the 1DII in a lighter weight body with a few differences one way or the other.

[ecobo]

I would like to see a replacement of the 20D with a smaller crop-factor - 1.2-1.3. This 1.6x on the 20D kills my 17-40!

[ScottE]

I would like to see a replacement of the 20D with a smaller crop-factor - 1.2-1.3. This 1.6x on the 20D kills my 17-40!

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a 10-22? You don't need a new camera if that is your only problem with the 20D.

Scott

[felix21685]

well whatever he does ill take is 20D very gladly ;)

[elhalman]

ecobo
I would like to see a replacement of the 20D with a smaller crop-factor - 1.2-1.3. This 1.6x on the 20D kills my 17-40!



agree !

the only thing I hate about my 20D is the 1.6 crop factor
1.3x would be the only reason for me to justify the ubgrade

[Sprout Crumble]

Would be okay if Canon could get the EFS lenses to work with 1.3x bodies. Otherwise....

[xuxu1]

Sooner or later there will be new camera bodys available. But what´s the fuzz about it. I´m very satisfied with my 10D. No AF problems, no sticking shutter, no back and/or front focus issues, no dust pumping on the sensor... Boy am i lucky! :p

At the moment i´m saving for (more) better glass which IMO is the better way to go. Yes someday i will get a new body also. But then (i hope) the 10D still is going to be my backup camera. :)

ED

[lostdoggy]

Would be okay if Canon could get the EFS lenses to work with 1.3x bodies. Otherwise....

There wouldn't be any use for EF-S lens if the next camera is a Full Frame Sensor.

[BigRed450]

Well fellas, I believe when they come out with the replacement for the 1DmkII it certainly won't be $2500. If it replaces both the 1DsmkII and the 1DmkII its almost guarantteed to over 6G. For all the options you wish for on the 20D you seem to be expecting IMHO a Ferrari for the price of VW beetle. I would really love to buy another Pro body for the price of the 20D, but I do not see that happening. You will not see anything other then 1.6 crop on the Pro-sumer body due to the new EF-S line of lenses.

[Jwreich]

Canon started running rebates on the GL2 back in July of 2003. At that time I was excited to see a replacement come to the market. Well 2 years later and they still have the rebate, but no new camera. I would not place any stock in Canon's rebates as a sign of new products to come.

However, I do welcome new toys....

--

[ecobo]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a 10-22? You don't need a new camera if that is your only problem with the 20D.

Scott

I hate the EF-S lenses. I buy only glass that I can use on a full-frame body as I plan to buy a 1Ds mkII. Plus - I don't think EF-S lenses can deliver the quality of the high-end L glass.

[LordSummerisle]

Hi im new to this forum, just like to say hello.
Im currently about to buy a 20d but have been worried if there's going to be a 30d or whatever out about 2 weeks after i buy for the same price, then i thought if there was as release coming soon wouldn't canon have waited for this to introduce the new 20da as a 30da or am i being stupid?

thanks, look forward to posting again,

[Todd Jacobsen]

Hi im new to this forum, just like to say hello.
Im currently about to buy a 20d but have been worried if there's going to be a 30d or whatever out about 2 weeks after i buy for the same price, then i thought if there was as release coming soon wouldn't canon have waited for this to introduce the new 20da as a 30da or am i being stupid?

thanks, look forward to posting again,

Your camera body is old once you buy it. There will always be another model after the one you bought. Although not as bad as computer hardware, it is similar. You can always wait for the next greatest thing or buy today. Your choice. Unless there is a feature you want that is not in the current models, I wouldn't worry about timing.

Camera bodies are short term purchases. Lenses on the other hand, are long term (generally) and have shown in the Canon line to move from one digi to another quite nicely. The lenses (like computer software) will also be the majority of your camera costs. As far as the EF-S lineup goes, I would be VERY surprised to see the EF-S line die out with one model release.

I purchased the 10D in January 2004 and found out in July that the 20D was coming out. There was only ONE feature in the 20D that pushed me to it (frame rate). My 10D is my backup and does a stellar job. The 10D also became my wife's camera.

Rumors about a new camera body do not negate the benefits of the current line. It is very questionable as to whether or not the 20D, for the majority of the users, is really much of an upgrade from the 10D. The same can be said for the rumored new model.

If the 10D or 20D fits you needs, there is no need to wait.

[lost]

I hate the EF-S lenses. I buy only glass that I can use on a full-frame body as I plan to buy a 1Ds mkII. Plus - I don't think EF-S lenses can deliver the quality of the high-end L glass.

Thems is some pretty strong words partner. :lol:

Ok this is the second time I have to type this so it will be to the point. (Damn Back button on my mouse)

First off I have to disagree with you on the EF-S being junk as a whole. The 10-22 seems to be a great lens. There is nothing preventing canon from releasing a L series EF-S. I will say that more needs to be done on the wide side for EF-S like L series and Primes, but I think that will come with time.

/rant on

As the debate over EF-S vs. EF and APS-C vs. FF rages on, I watch as both side make their claims.

I would like to explain why I think both can live in harmony.

What 99% of people in this debate don't take into account is the following. The whole reason for different size film was to increase/decrease resolution. While film did improve, its resolution did stay pretty constant. On the other hand Digital sensors are totally different. Resolution is in no way related to film/sensor size. The only problem digital runs into in smaller chips is noise.

Noise is the digital equivilant of grain in film. In the 20d noise is well under control. If the canon line of APS-C sensors continue to increase resolution while keeping noise at its current or lower levels there really is no need to change.

A lens is just a lens!!!!!!! It doesent matter what size it is, the quality of the glass and alignment is what is important!

You never hear poeple complain about the 1.6 crop on the long end.

We need to start looking at the APS-C as an additional tool that we can use, not as substandard interem workaround.

/rant off

[PaulB]

"A lens is just a lens!!!!!!! It doesent matter what size it is the quality of the glass and alignment is what is important!"

I wholeheartedly agree.
Though the EF-S range will not, and never will, fit on a body that has a sensor size larger than the 1.6x APS-C and give coverage of that larger sensor.
Note that I covered (sic) myself in that statement! It is just possible that a 1.3x or FF sensor body could appear which will take EF and EF-S lenses - just like the 300D/350D/20D.
Why/how? Well imagine a FF sensor with a D2X type crop for high-speed mode of 1.6x.
With an EF-S capable mount which automatically set the crop of 1.6x when an EF-S lens was mounted.................................. get my drift here?
Best of all possible worlds.
Not on the next Canon DSLR perhaps, but the merged 1D/1Ds line could be a candidate. Nikon have shown it is possible and that it works although the 1.5/2.0x crops are less than ideal - but usable if you are a Nikon user and have no FF option now that the Kodak FF bodies are history.

[lost]

I like where you are going with that PaulB, Lets head to Canon corp headquaters or their R&D laboratory and have a word with the PIC (Person In Charge). ;)

There is one Irony is the whole FF vs. 1.6 debate. Most people who have a APS-C do so because of the price. Now they are complaining about it. Had Canon not released a APS-C camera they would need to pony up the really big bucks.

Canon seems to be screwed no matter which way they go. LOL

[condyk]

The 350D is priced too high still in UK for attracting mass market numbers of devoties to the Canon religion. I see a gap which, if people later buy additional lenses, etc., will effectively become Canon's loss leader. The 300D is on the way out leaving £300-600 band to the P&S brigade. Even though Canon are in there, the sell on of additional gear doesn't happen with a P&S.

shiato storm .. .as to your £300 300D available in the UK NEW! I think you're having a laugh :lol: Import from US with risk of duty/VAT/fees and body only, sure. Off the shelf NO! If YES, then where as my ex missus wants one but is too tight to fork out yet.

[karusel]

Since we kinda fell into the EF-S lens debate... the new camera they're putting out is quite probably going to be EF-S compatible; I see no need for another pro series body. Although I generally don't like EF-S lenses, since they're obviously targeted to the consumer hobbyist which I truly hope I'm not, it would definetely be interesting to see an EF-S L lens, preferrably a fast tele, like 400 f/2.8, which would of course give 640mm, still at f/2.8 and that would be a big, big advantage to say, 1DS MKII and 600 f/4. From what I understand of EF-S lenses, the 400 f/2.8 EF-S would be easier to make and should be cheaper than 400 f/2.8L.

Great superfast tele EF-S lenses (cheaper and lighter than FF equivalents) would be a factor to persuade many birdwatchers, sport shooters etc. Maybe they'd have a full frame or 1.3x camera with a selecion of full frame lenses and then a second EF-S body, say, a 20D.

[Sprout Crumble]

I hate the EF-S lenses. I buy only glass that I can use on a full-frame body as I plan to buy a 1Ds mkII. Plus - I don't think EF-S lenses can deliver the quality of the high-end L glass.

Don't agree at all. The 10-22mm and 60mm macro in particular are superb optics.
EFS lenses have been tainted by the general mediocrity of the kit lens. Thats a relatively poor optic because its been built down to a price, NOT because its an EFS. Theres only four lenses on the market and people are writing off the entire line because they don't have a red line around the barrel.

I like Karusels ideas. Canon are woefully short of affordable telephotos and anything that gets me some prime goodness at a reasonable price has my vote. Don't think we'll see any big expensive stuff for a while until full-frame is phased out (you can all laugh but its possible in the medium term) as its a fair assumption that the vast majority of expensive lens buyers have a 1D model.

[PaulB]

"until full-frame is phased out (you can all laugh but its possible in the medium term)"

You obviously haven't read the interviews with Canon high-ups who all seem to think that FF sensors ARE here to stay in the long term...........................which is where the 1D and 1Ds lines will merge into one. The only question is over the future of 1.3x and 1.6x, and here it looks as if 1.3x sensors will be the ones to go leaving FF for thePro line and 1.6x for the rest. But it is always possible that the (soon to come?) tweener body will have 1.3x sensor and we will still have the three sensor sizes in the long term - possibly with the FF body having a low res,/higher frame-rate crop of 1.3x or (more likely 1.6s) built in.

[Sprout Crumble]

I think 1.3x will vanish first, but genuinely think that in a decade or so's time, the gradual move over to a smaller sensor will be complete. The practical benefits of size and cost are obvious, the only advantages to full-frame being technical. We all know the way of technology. Smaller, faster, better. I foresee a time when todays full-frame is tomorrows medium format for none but a small minority. Not exactly around the corner but I believe that as 1.6x lenses proliferate and smaller sensors reach a certain level of excellence, the benefits will outweigh any minor, and some may say un-noticeable negatives.

After all, pros have to lug their gear about as well.

[ScottE]

I hate the EF-S lenses. I buy only glass that I can use on a full-frame body as I plan to buy a 1Ds mkII. Plus - I don't think EF-S lenses can deliver the quality of the high-end L glass.

Actually it is easier to build a quality EF-S lens because the diameter of the elements does not have to be as large. The bigger the diameter of the glass, the harder and more expensive it is to maintain quality.

Have a look at medium format lenses that are much bigger diameter for the same focal length. They tend to be much more expensive and when the resolution in lines per mm is measured are usually inferior to 35 mm lenses. The reason medium format gives higher resolution pictures is because the film/sensor is bigger, not because the lenses are superior.

I have both the 10-22 EF-S and 17-40 EF L lenses. Your assumption about quality is wrong if you compare the overlapping focal lengths of those two lenses.

Scott

[tim]

I guess wanting a professional digital camera with a 6*6cm sensor is out of the question then? That'd be sweet. Sure it'd be big and probably expensive, at least for now, , but it should have fantastic detail, great high ISO performance, etc.

[Matatazela]

I guess wanting a professional digital camera with a 6*6cm sensor is out of the question then? That'd be sweet. Sure it'd be big and probably expensive, at least for now, , but it should have fantastic detail, great high ISO performance, etc.

Sinar offer a 22mp medium format digital back (portable!) at a hugely expensive cost.

They are already out there. http://www.sinarbron.com/sb54sam_new/sb54main.php

[Matatazela]

Sorry - that is 17.6 sq cm, rather than 36 - a BIG difference!

[shiato storm]

Actually it is easier to build a quality EF-S lens because the diameter of the elements does not have to be as large. The bigger the diameter of the glass, the harder and more expensive it is to maintain quality
this actually is along the lines of a debate/discussion I have been having with people I know between full frame and 1.6x sensors and the lenses to use on them. as we all know a 24-70 lens effectively becomes 38-112 (roughly) on a 1.6x sensor BUT what not many people know is that this does use the centre of the glass better. the L lenses are designed with 35mm/full frame sensor in mind for cross-compatability, the area of projected light is designed to be large enough to accomodate this plane. It is known that around the edges of a lens it it more likely to suffer from imperfections and less likely towards the centre. if you reduce the area you take an image from, as with the 1.6x sensor, you utilise only the high quality area, or 'sweet spot' of the lens. this is primarily why some of the recent tamrons are L glass beaters with a 1.6x sensor - they are fantastic optically in the centre of their projected frame, but at 35mm frame they soften up a touch and hence show up the differences.

there is also the debate that the full frame sensors are becoming too good at resolving and show up imprefections even in L glass, the industry's "gold standard"...L glass is more than good for many of us and I doubt I'll have a ff sensor any time soon but the fact that a 1.6, whilst losing that wide angle ability, gains the quality from the centre of the optics.

the EF-s lenses, in my mind are serious questionable products. firstly they only work with certain cameras (you can't use them on the 1 series or 35mm cameras), secondly they project a smaller image plane so any mention of a sweet spot from the centre is thrown out of the window as the resultant image thats taken incorporates light from the edge of the lens not just the centre. its a cheaper way of making a lens but I suspect the quality suffers and that you can only use it on specific cameras doesn't help...

[OceanView]

I hope they take their time with the successor to the 20D, at least a few years.
Let them work out all the details to make it a better camera than anyone would expect.
Put in all the great features that everyone mentioned here.

Reason is, I just bought the 20D and don't want to spend another $1500 - $3000 for a new model later this year. This sure is an expensive hobby.

[karusel]

Dude, you obviously don't know much about marketing, no disrespect, the general public doesn't know much either, some don't even care to think about. The way things go is, producers will put all their efforts into bringing things forward as fast as possible - to beat competition, and marketing people decide what they're going to sell, when and partly, what the product will be like. In photography there are NO breakthrough developments, they give us some new crumbs and make us believe they're super tasty cookies. 6 to 8 megapixels means very little, the marginal improvements are definetely not worth the price difference. The general public tends to disagree, therefore there is pretty heavy depreciation of older models when slightly improved ones come out.

Going from 300D to 1D MKII is a notable improvement, and it's worth to upgrade, 300D to 350D is not, it is not much even with 20D. Check out your prints, are they really better?

[shiato storm]

300 to 350D...the difference is one got shrunk in the wash and the other didnt!

[sjprg]

I want a 16bit A/D in the 20D replacement, and at least 12MP.

[shiato storm]

...'I want', never gets...didn't you learn that as a child? much better to jump up and down screaming your demands until you get them ;)

[JulianL]

I noticed that the 1D MkII just dropped another $100 in price on B&H Photo.

I'm considering jumping into the deep end with this hobby of mine by picking up this camera body...Someone please talk me out of it! For the sake of my marriage? :)

[shiato storm]

with the current $500 cashback in the US you can't really go wrong...

oops, sorry! I mean - with the current cashback going on in the US theres probably a newer model on the way some time after the 15th July, so you'd best wait until after then...a little voice has said

;)

[cubano100pct]

I think it will be after August 8th, the rebate postmark date, when Canon introduces new EOS bodys to surpass Nikon's new D2x and whatever Nikon introduces to replace the D70 (rebate ends on June 30th) in the next few months.

[shiato storm]

i don't think nikon will replace the d70/d70s just yet...

[Croasdail]

Dude, you obviously don't know much about marketing, no disrespect, the general public doesn't know much either, some don't even care to think about. The way things go is, producers will put all their efforts into bringing things forward as fast as possible - to beat competition, and marketing people decide what they're going to sell, when and partly, what the product will be like. In photography there are NO breakthrough developments, they give us some new crumbs and make us believe they're super tasty cookies. 6 to 8 megapixels means very little, the marginal improvements are definetely not worth the price difference. The general public tends to disagree, therefore there is pretty heavy depreciation of older models when slightly improved ones come out.

Going from 300D to 1D MKII is a notable improvement, and it's worth to upgrade, 300D to 350D is not, it is not much even with 20D. Check out your prints, are they really better?

Not sure who you do marketing for... but I am a managing director for lets just say one of the largest software firms in the world... and your comment that marketing has any say in "what the product will be like" is just contrary to the way most engineering based high tech companies work. We wished it was that way.. but engineering decides what we sell - it is up to us to figure out how best to position and price what ever it is. I am not sure if Canon is a engineering driven company or marketing driven company - but I am sure as soon as they get adequat yields on a chip that kicks some competitors but - they will not sit on it. If you want to blame marketing for anything - pricing is the area where real cost versus price versus perceived value can get a little funkie.

[shiato storm]

yes, 1ds good value? nope...not quite. its cool but its price is not.

[MDJAK]

I noticed that the 1D MkII just dropped another $100 in price on B&H Photo.

I'm considering jumping into the deep end with this hobby of mine by picking up this camera body...Someone please talk me out of it! For the sake of my marriage? :)

You think you're in trouble? I'm thinking of getting the 1dmkII as a backup to my 1dsmkII. I want that 8fps, damn it.

[shiato storm]

...too much money?

[CyberDyneSystems]

O-kay.. here's my prediction ;)


First.. I don't think there is going to be a new Canon DSLR this Summer/Fall.

The 1D MkII is currently the oldest Canon DSLR design being made (not 1.5 years old yet)

The 1D was three years old before it was replaced

Two consumer DSLRs have been released in the past 10 Months (20D and 350D)

One pro "1" series was released recently as well (1Ds MkII)

A Total of THREE new DSLR's released in the last 10 months!!!

If Canon were poised to release a new DSLR.. the model that would make the most sense would be the replacement for 1D MkII...

As the cost of the MkII goes down.. I don't see where the mythical "3D" "in between" model could fit cost wise without Canon hurting there own Pro model sales.

The line between the 20D and the 1D MkII has allready become a much finer line than has ever previously existed between Canon's Pro DSLR models and the consumer model..

I can not see Canon wanting to blur that line Further at the expense of MkII sales.


Conclusions;

If Canon does release a new DSLR in the Fall,. I can see only two logical possibilities;

1> The 1D MkII is replaced with a model that further seperates it from the 20D's capabilites.. and competes more with the D2X (ie: give us the D2X's 12MP but at full 8.5FPS)

2> A totally new design is released.. either a New "Pro" model that abandons the huge size and weight of the "1" series.. or some other option.. but in a new class alltogether.

[Sprout Crumble]

My guess would be a compact 1D MK II running a 1.6x sensor having the same solidity but in a smaller package. Further delineation between the FF and APS-C sensor ranges.

[.me]

what do you think, wait untill fall or get 1Ds mark II right now - if I can wait.. ?

[ssim]

what do you think, wait untill fall or get 1Ds mark II right now - if I can wait.. ?

Well if you can't wait, then you have your answer. If we always wait for the next generation of anything electronic, we will never buy.

I had considered the 1DsMKII when it came out but the 1DMKII features are more complimentary to my type of shooting. I certainly didn't need the MP that it offers and I think in reality that very few do.

Canon will continue to keep a definite separation from their pro and prosumer lines of DSLR. I see the next body they release to be something in the pro end but I doubt that we will see that until 2006.

[mathayde]

Man where have you guys been, this is old news! And from what I have read through this post no one knows about it!

Canon is making a new dSLR and it is a succesor to the 20d
The Canon 20da.
The big differnces between the 20d and the new model is Live preview, You can lock up the mirror and open up the shutter and use your LCD to focus with, also you can zoom in on the LCD to ensure the focus is perfect before taking the picture.
Noise will be reduced, Otherwise I think the cameras are the same.
also when it is avalible it will only be avilable by order.

This cameras going to be specifcley for astrophotography and I dont think it has made a big enough jump in specs for anyone to drop their old body and get one.
Anyways now ure filled in :P

[Pb2Au]

I predict the "removal" of a 1.3x crop factor camera from the line. Canon has EF-S for the 1.6x, so obviously that is going to be the standard for the hobby/serious amatuer cameras (350D, 10D, 20D, "30D"). The pro body will be a full frame sensor with 16-18MP and 5-10fps, maybe with the crop feature of some of the new nikons (decrease resolution/crop and increase FPS for sports, etc).

I would love to see a 12 mp 1.6x crop 20D-sized camera for nature/wildlife. It could accept the EF-S lenses, have the "super AF" of the 1DmkII, and STILL TAKE BP-511 batteries. :) Spot metering would be nice, and ISO in the viewfinder. No built in flash is ok with me. I've literally never used the built-in on my 20D.

I'd also like a slightly larger/higher res LCD for chimping, and maybe a way to indicate OOF shots on the LCD just like they flash the overexposed areas??? It must be possible... I always think I'm Ansel Adams on my LCD, then I realize that I'm shooting with the lens cap on, at 3200 ISO, and .jpg small, set for tungsten WB, and MF when I get it on the 21 inch (ok, not quite that bad). ;)

[mathayde]

yeah I personally think the differnce isnt that great.. I mean yay live preview and less noice less, all throw our wallets at it!!!
They should have at least bumped up the amount of pixels... say 10 or 12 would be better. I mean 2 MP isnt a BIG differnce.. but they need to do something else so the jump is somewhat more worthwhile.
If anyone can read 日本語 (P.S this is "Japanese" in Japanese) they might like to take a look at the Japanese canon website it has a page for the 20da.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Man where have you guys been, this is old news! And from what I have read through this post no one knows about it!

Canon is making a new dSLR and it is a succesor to the 20d
The Canon 20da.
The big differnces between the 20d and the new model is Live preview, You can lock up the mirror and open up the shutter and use your LCD to focus with, also you can zoom in on the LCD to ensure the focus is perfect before taking the picture.
Noise will be reduced, Otherwise I think the cameras are the same.
also when it is avalible it will only be avilable by order.

This cameras going to be specifcley for astrophotography and I dont think it has made a big enough jump in specs for anyone to drop their old body and get one.
Anyways now ure filled in :P

Your way off base I'm afraid.. the 20Da is not a succesor to the 20D.. (that would be a Nikon Move ;) )

The 20Da is;
1. Old news on this forum.. we've been aware of it since November 2004 or earlier...

2. It is a specific use camera that will see limited circulation.

3. It is an Astrophotography Camera. None of the changes to it from the 20D will be of much use to anyone shooting anything but the skys... (except possibly it will be better for infrared)

We are not discussing the 20Da in this thread.. but rather guessing at what Canon's next step would be.

[CanonAndy]

I am guessing Canon uses a PDLP (Product Development & Launch Process) or other gate controlled process for their new product developments. Its very similar to the automotive world, where you are introducing refinement packages.

Canon's marketing has a VERY big role in this process. They are continuously performing QFD's, surveying internal and external customers, and providing engineering with input. Once the marketing specification is created, engineering creates an engineering product specification to meet performance, durability, and quality requirements.

Engineering and marketing have to continuously meet and review cost targets, specifications, etc... to ensure that engineering is making a product that will sell. The days of engineering R&D hiding in their labs and introducing a finished product are long gone. Companies can't afford to let their engineers get too far away from their end customers, and marketing is responsible for ensuring the VOC (voice of the customer) is present in review meetings. I'm confident that Canon has lurkers watching the active discussion boards, and camera distributors are regularly providing customer feedback to Canon.

The life cycle of existing, and next generation cameras are already determined. I'm sure there are even a few NPI's (New Product Introduction) programs running, which would provide a new family line of cameras (xD, etc...).

CanonAndy

[shiato storm]

jesus!! when will every body learn. megapixels are NOT the be all and end all of dSLRs!!!
so many posts start along the lines of 'well, 12mpix would be nice'. ok, yes fine, but a faster, reduced noise processor/sensor combo would be far more preferable. when are you ever going to use that 12mpix picture fully? how often will you really print up beyond A3...A2...? ok, the potential is good but I've seen some 8mpix images that are truely aweful, and pictures of half that wiping the floor with so many others...huge image files will just take up space on hdd's and stagnate. mind you the camera companies and harddrive companies must be in bed with eachother...since they certainly rely upon the other so heavily!

THE single most important feature of a camera, is the person taking the pictures.
After that its what the camera offers you in terms of functions to enable your talent to be turned from vision to reality. So, the next offereing from canon, I belive, shouldn't go overboard with the mpix, especially on the 'sports orientated' bodies as bigger images mean more processing required - especially if you're taking high numbers in a short space of time. this then means more battery power etc. so going that route means a smaller body (for those wanting 12mpix rapid fire!) is less likely to happen. now, stick with the 8mpix area but improve noise reduction, iso range, higher fps and coupled with advances in technology then a smaller body is entirely conceivable.
personally I'd prefer a smaller more handle-able body in 1 series guise (a la 1V or 3) over a 12mpix monster.

[AjP]

jesus!! when will every body learn. megapixels are NOT the be all and end all of dSLRs!!!
so many posts start along the lines of 'well, 12mpix would be nice'. ok, yes fine, but a faster, reduced noise processor/sensor combo would be far more preferable. when are you ever going to use that 12mpix picture fully? how often will you really print up beyond A3...A2...? ok, the potential is good but I've seen some 8mpix images that are truely aweful, and pictures of half that wiping the floor with so many others...

THE single most important feature of a camera, is the person taking the pictures.
After that its what the camera offers you in terms of functions to enable your talent to be turned from vision to reality. So, the next offereing from canon, I belive, shouldn't go overboard with the mpix, especially on the 'sports orientated' bodies as bigger images mean more processing required - especially if you're taking high numbers in a short space of time. this then means more battery power etc. so going that route means a smaller body (for those wanting 12mpix rapid fire!) is less likely to happen. now, stick with the 8mpix area but improve noise reduction, iso range, higher fps and coupled with advances in technology then a smaller body is entirely conceivable.
personally I'd prefer a smaller more handle-able body in 1 series guise (a la 1V or 3) over a 12mpix monster.Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DavidEB]

If you try to increase the pixel density much further from current 20D levels, you loose image quality to diffraction. Currently the circle of confusion for a 20D imposes image degradation somewhere around f22. I doubt that photographers want a camera that isn't useable at f11 or f16. There's a little more give in the full-frame camera line, but not much - the nikon is probably pushing the limit now. For similar reasons, and also because of loss of shallow depth-of-field with smaller sensor sizes (in the equivalently enlarged print), I doubt that we'll see crop factors much bigger than 1.6.

Areas where improvements aren't limited by physics include write speeds, focus control, artificial intelligence for focus, exposure, flash control (we're already seeing changes here with ETTL-II). Maybe higher ISO and maybe ergonomics (iPod-like controls).

EF-S is a great concept for those who own 1.6 crop cameras, but Canon hasn't realized their potential yet. Hopefully as 1.6 crop cameras get more respect canon will come out with more high-quality EF-S lenses. By ignoring the edges of full-frame and by bringing the rear element closer to the sensor, the EF-S concept allows easier construction of wide-angle lenses. So far Canon has just used this to make relatively cheap lenses. I think Sigma made a great move with their 30mm f1.4 DC lens. Hopefully Canon will think this thru and offer high-quality fast-aperature EFS wide angle lenses (primes and zooms both).


I predict the next really major shake-ups will be foveon sensors and high-quality video monitors instead of flip-up mirrors. But these seem a long way away.


each entitled to own opinion....

[xuxu1]

...but Canon hasn't realized their potential yet.
???
i bet they have!
Everything they are doing includes (smart) marketing!

ED

[grego]

1> The 1D MkII is replaced with a model that further seperates it from the 20D's capabilites.. and competes more with the D2X (ie: give us the D2X's 12MP but at full 8.5FPS)

.

Well its not bad right now, because


D@X: 5 fps @ 12 mp, 8 fps @ 6.8 mp (cropped)


8.5 fps at 8.2 mp. So that's not bad currently, so Canon doesn't have to worry much on that.

That's why I don't see a move to make a new camera for a while even if this one is the likely canditate to be replaced. Your conclusions were dead on.

[Tom W]

???
i bet they have!
Everything they are doing includes (smart) marketing!

ED
I wonder if smart marketing includes letting Tamron, Tokina, and Sigma scoop Canon on the lens variety for the APS-C format?

I wonder if Canon's going to let them spend all their development money on the smaller format and then pull the rug out from under the competition by going to 1.3X or full frame for all future cameras?

[roanjohn]

WHAT I WANT:

45 point focus in a smaller form factor than the 1 series (sans battery pack).

Is that too much to ask??

Of course, I would like to pay 2500-3000 for it..........no more!!!

OH, I could care less how many megapixel it has.........or what crop factor it is.....or how many fps it shoots...........

Ro1

[lostdoggy]

All I want is a Ful Frame 1DMKIII. Do you hear me Santa???

[Michaelmjc]

OH, I could care less how many megapixel it has.........or what crop factor it is.....or how many fps it shoots...........

Ro1

Really? Those are the things that I look for most, especially fps.

[dkord]

I think eventually they planned on doing away with the 1.3 and just offer 1.6 and full frame bodies. When that will come about only Canon's brass knows. When the 20D came out I was a bit disappointed that it is a 1.6.
I do hope the next release is a tweener, 1.3 larger RAW buffer 8-10 mp is just fine. Maybe even improved ISO without the lines in underexposure or loss of detail.
You never know, sensor technology might change and we're all blown out of the water.

About the 10-22 EFS lens, the reason it wasn't labelled "L" is because it is an EFS lens. Meaning because it's not design for the larger crop bodies, they ommitted the "L" label.
Does that means there will be no "L" EFS lens? Who knows, sometimes marketing has a way of rearing it's ugly head.

[roanjohn]

Really? Those are the things that I look for most, especially fps.

Hmmm..............I still prefer more AF points than fps..........I'll be happy with 3 fps..........

And I forgot to add one more thing...........a brighter viewfiner.........OH YES!!! Now I long for those stuff...........

Ro1

[dkord]

Hmmm..............I still prefer more AF points than fps..........I'll be happy with 3 fps..........

And I forgot to add one more thing...........a brighter viewfiner.........OH YES!!! Now I long for those stuff...........

Ro1

Actually I'll go for a split prism, frenzel matte screen. Also more AF points will be nice if it includes a 1D focusing engine but anything slower then the 4fps will be a huge disappointment. Might even be a deal breaker for me.

[grego]

I think eventually they planned on doing away with the 1.3 and just offer 1.6 and full frame bodies. When that will come about only Canon's brass knows. When the 20D came out I was a bit disappointed that it is a 1.6.
I do hope the next release is a tweener, 1.3 larger RAW buffer 8-10 mp is just fine. Maybe even improved ISO without the lines in underexposure or loss of detail.
You never know, sensor technology might change and we're all blown out of the water.

They'd only put the lower end cameras to 1.3 if they made the 1 series a lower crop factor.

They'd lose power in selling if they made both the 20D and 1DMII the same as far as the crop factor goes.

Then of course you don't want to make the 1DMKII Full Frame because then then the 1DsMII wouldn't sell as well.

However, they should have for the 20D, taken it down to 1.5 atleast, like Nikon has to equal them though.

[dkord]

They'd only put the lower end cameras to 1.3 if they made the 1 series a lower crop factor.

They'd lose power in selling if they made both the 20D and 1DMII the same as far as the crop factor goes.

Then of course you don't want to make the 1DMKII Full Frame because then then the 1DsMII wouldn't sell as well.

However, they should have for the 20D, taken it down to 1.5 atleast, like Nikon has to equal them though.

No, no, I meant that sometime in the future, the 1.3 sensor will go away and eventually they will only offer a 1.6 and a full frame.
Which means that the 1dmarkII and 1dsmarkII might evolve into one model at full frame.
With technical progress; increase frame rate at high mp count with less noise.
Maybe like Nikon switchable crop from full to 1.3

And to support the consumer line and the EFS commitment, they will offer 1.6 bodies.

But after reading this interview, it looks like they will be continuing the 3 crops for the near future.

http://hobday.net/canon/

[I Simonius]

jesus!! when will every body learn. megapixels are NOT the be all and end all of dSLRs!!!
so many posts start along the lines of 'well, 12mpix would be nice'. ok, yes fine, but a faster, reduced noise processor/sensor combo would be far more preferable. when are you ever going to use that 12mpix picture fully? how often will you really print up beyond A3...A2...? ok, the potential is good but I've seen some 8mpix images that are truely aweful, and pictures of half that wiping the floor with so many others...huge image files will just take up space on hdd's and stagnate. mind you the camera companies and harddrive companies must be in bed with eachother...since they certainly rely upon the other so heavily!

THE single most important feature of a camera, is the person taking the pictures.
After that its what the camera offers you in terms of functions to enable your talent to be turned from vision to reality. So, the next offereing from canon, I belive, shouldn't go overboard with the mpix, especially on the 'sports orientated' bodies as bigger images mean more processing required - especially if you're taking high numbers in a short space of time. this then means more battery power etc. so going that route means a smaller body (for those wanting 12mpix rapid fire!) is less likely to happen. now, stick with the 8mpix area but improve noise reduction, iso range, higher fps and coupled with advances in technology then a smaller body is entirely conceivable.
personally I'd prefer a smaller more handle-able body in 1 series guise (a la 1V or 3) over a 12mpix monster.


maybe not be all and end all, but mucho mucho desirable
Just look at the pics from the 16 mp 1Ds to see the obvious
As for big prints, YES! I am waiting so I can print A0 without interpolation :D