Understanding RAW

[InskiP]

I'm new to RAW and I want to make sure I understand this. A RAW file is never changed, it remains pristine, correct? Modifications made to a RAW file are saved in the converted file only. If I make changes to a RAW file and convert it, the next time I open that RAW file it will be in its original form? In other words, if I convert my RAW file to say a JPEG, I will have have the original RAW file and a new JPEG as well, right? Kinda like a Save As. I guess what was confusing me is the word convert meaning transform, modify, exchange, alter. LIke I was no longer going to have a RAW image because it's been transformed or changesd into something else. Anyone using the DPP s/w to process RAW files? If I do a batch process/convert, I'm basically making a copy of the RAW file, correct? Sorry to be so thick...

[mgbeach]

It's the equivalent of making a print from a negative. The RAW file is unaffected by the conversion.

[InskiP]

BEAUTIFUL!

[tim]

If you want to understand RAW, you HAVE to read this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/032127878X/qid=1113466778/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3047575-5896047?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

[Curtis N]

With DPP, after you convert and save your files and attempt to switch folders or exit the program, it will ask you if you want to save your changes. Clicking yes saves the settings you have assigned to each file (for white balance, exposure, etc) in a separate file. It still does not change the original RAW file itself.

[aam1234]

Eventhough RSE gives you more options to edit the photo, for some reason I prefer DPP.

[Lucky Forward]

With DPP, after you convert and save your files and attempt to switch folders or exit the program, it will ask you if you want to save your changes. Clicking yes saves the settings you have assigned to each file (for white balance, exposure, etc) in a separate file. It still does not change the original RAW file itself.

I've always been saying "no" when prompted to save my changes to the RAW files in order to keep them pristine. But if DPP stores the change data separately, the next time I bring up the image in DPP how do I determine if it retrieves the RAW image with changes or the original pristine RAW image?

Also, right now the only changes I'm making to the RAW image before conversion are the brightness and the white balance. Are there other things I can and should be adjusting in DPP before conversion, as opposed to adjusting in Photoshop?

[PacAce]

With DPP, after you convert and save your files and attempt to switch folders or exit the program, it will ask you if you want to save your changes. Clicking yes saves the settings you have assigned to each file (for white balance, exposure, etc) in a separate file. It still does not change the original RAW file itself.
It doesn't change the original image data itself but it does change the metadata in the original raw file. You can tell by the new modified date of the raw file. It shocked me the first time I saw my raw file dates changing. I was wondering what was happening to my raw files since I thought it wasn't supposed to get touched at all.

[PacAce]

I've always been saying "no" when prompted to save my changes to the RAW files in order to keep them pristine. But if DPP stores the change data separately, the next time I bring up the image in DPP how do I determine if it retrieves the RAW image with changes or the original pristine RAW image?

I think there is an icon that tells you whether the image is original or updated. But you can always revert back to the original just by clicking on "reset shot settings" or something to that effect.


Also, right now the only changes I'm making to the RAW image before conversion are the brightness and the white balance. Are there other things I can and should be adjusting in DPP before conversion, as opposed to adjusting in Photoshop?
The controls you get on DPP depends on the camera you are using but I'm pretty sure you should be able to bet more than just brightness and white balance.

[Curtis N]

I've always been saying "no" when prompted to save my changes to the RAW files in order to keep them pristine. But if DPP stores the change data separately, the next time I bring up the image in DPP how do I determine if it retrieves the RAW image with changes or the original pristine RAW image?

Also, right now the only changes I'm making to the RAW image before conversion are the brightness and the white balance. Are there other things I can and should be adjusting in DPP before conversion, as opposed to adjusting in Photoshop?DPP attaches tiny little icons to the thumnails indicating that they have been adjusted. There are also options to revert to previously saved settings or original shot settings. If you don't have the instruction manual for DPP you can download it in PDF format here:
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=DownloadDetailAct&fcategoryid=325&modelid=11154
Click on Product/Software Manuals and go to the bottom of the page.

As to your second question, there are many ways you can tweak images with DPP, and you can use it on JPEG and TIFF as well as RAW files. Brightness, contrast, hue and saturation, as well as cropping and basic cloning, among others. Whether you use DPP or Photoshop for this is a matter of personal preference. I find DPP to be simpler to use and it saves me a step, but Photoshop has many more options.

Would you rather drive a Hummer or a Chevy Caprice? The Hummer is powerful and versatile (like Photoshop), but also expensive, inefficient, and maybe not the most practicle way to get around town. Try them both and see what works best for you.

[PhotosGuy]

I think there is an icon that tells you whether the image is original or updated. But you can always revert back to the original just by clicking on "reset shot settings" or something to that effect. That seems not user friendly to me, but I don't use DPP. The thing I like about RSE is that I always make changes to a snapshot & RSE saves that, so I can just click on the tabs & switch between the original & changes 'image' when I go back into RSE later. If I decide to make further changes, I always make another snapshot.

[InskiP]

I don't really get the metadata thing, sorry. Maybe I don't really know what metadata is???
But if it saves the matadata in the original file, then it sounds to me that the image HAS been changed and is not pristine. But like PacAce said I can always revert to shot setting on the OG RAW file after process/conversion. Plus, I always save more than one copy of my OG RAW file anyway.

Also, does anyone know if I select all my thumbnails in DPP and print, will it print the thumbnail page or all the images separately?

[jfrancho]

If you want to understand RAW, you HAVE to read this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/032127878X/qid=1113466778/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3047575-5896047?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).You really need to follow Tim's advice.

[InskiP]

I plan on getting that book as soon as I upgrade to CS2. Right now I'm using DPP for processing RAW images before transfering them to PS7. That book won't really help me w/ PS7 since it doesn't recognize Camera RAW, will it?

[jfrancho]

There is a bunch of information that will help you understand RAW better, regardless of conversion tool. Plus, you'll get a head start on your PSCS technique.

[chakras]

while you wait for the book why don't you do a search google for 'Understanding RAW' ? You will get a lot of materials online.

[tim]

That book's great, it gives you the theory of RAW and practical advice for working with CS/CS2, depending on the edition you get. Everyone who shoots RAW should read the book.

[aam1234]

Enlighten me please. What's so mysterious about RAW that you need a whole book to understand it. You just open the file in your program, adjust things you want to adjust and ...voila, that's it!

I must be missing something I guess.

[PhotosGuy]

You just open the file in your program, adjust things you want to adjust and ...voila, that's it! You do have a point & it works for me! I didn't know what they put into Tri-X, either. ;-)

[aam1234]

Frank, I didn't even read any manual or the help file(s), just watched a couple of videos in DPP site. That's it.

[tim]

Enlighten me please. What's so mysterious about RAW that you need a whole book to understand it. You just open the file in your program, adjust things you want to adjust and ...voila, that's it!

I must be missing something I guess.

It's pretty hard to sumarise a whole book easily. It explains a lot of theory behind RAW, how it'd different to JPG, what the controls do, and helps outline a good photoshop workflow. If you can use RAW ok then don't bother, personally I was new to photoshop and RAW when I learned it, and I learned a lot. It also clears up some common questions that people have with RAW, I can't remember examples right now.

[PhotosGuy]

I did read the manual & the help file which BTW was different than the manual in RSE 1.1.2 It helped to clear up a few things like the snapshot function which I like a lot. I agree that, after you've spent a year moving sliders around, things get a lot easier.

[aam1234]

I agree that, after you've spent a year moving sliders around, things get a lot easier.

A Year! wow. When I first tried raw, I just opened DPP, played with it few minutes and got the results I wanted, that's all. Obviously you guys know much more than I do, but one can be up & running in a short time.

[PhotosGuy]

:D:D A year with PS5, 6, 7, etc. ;)

[aam1234]

:D:D A year with PS5, 6, 7, etc. ;)

Aha! well I don't think a year is enough for PS...man! that program is tough.

[jfrancho]

A Year! wow. When I first tried raw, I just opened DPP, played with it few minutes and got the results I wanted, that's all. Obviously you guys know much more than I do, but one can be up & running in a short time.You can probably learn how to operate an automobile without learning to drive. That doesn't necessarily mean you should be on the road. But your work looks good enough, so I'm not worried about getting runover by you....

[aam1234]

Thanks JF, that's a nice compliment :o

[I Simonius]

<snip>Would you rather drive a Hummer or a Chevy Caprice? The Hummer is powerful and versatile (like Photoshop), but also expensive, inefficient, and maybe not the most practicle way to get around town. Try them both and see what works best for you.

Photoshop is 'inefficient' - in what way?
(compared to what, DPP?)

[I Simonius]

Frank, I didn't even read any manual or the help file(s), just watched a couple of videos in DPP site. That's it.

there's aDPP site?
I missed that - do you have the URL please?

[aam1234]

Here (http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/dpp/index.html) it is Simon. There are only a couple of lessons there now but they will add more in the future (I hope).

[jfrancho]

Photoshop is 'inefficient' - in what way?
(compared to what, DPP?)I'm glad you pointed out that statement, since I missed it.

Curtis N: I don't think the Hummer/Caprice comparison will work, since they are both GM products, and I am suspicious of automobile manufactured by a company whose main business is banking. I'd say Photoshop is a Porsche 997: sleek, fast, overpriced, boutique product for the snobs that want the appearance of prestige. DPP is a spork: It will work in most occasions, as long as you are eating at McDonald's.

[aam1234]

Just tried the DPP site and all I get is a broken QuickTime icon. Did it work for you Simon (or any other).

[Curtis N]

Photoshop is 'inefficient' - in what way?Ok, so the analogy isn't perfect. It might be better to say the Hummer is a gas hog, sort of like the way Photoshop is a memory hog. Compared to simpler image editing programs, it takes longer to launch and takes up system resources with all sorts of bells and whistles I'll never use.

I'm not knocking Photoshop. It's the ultimate image editor, just like the Hummer is the ultimate SUV. Sometimes it's just more horsepower than you need.

I should also apologize for stealing the Hummer analogy from Bob Atkins - He used it to describe Photoshop in his review of Paint Shop Pro.

jfrancho - I like your analogy, and I don't even know what a spork is!

aam1234 - Your link to the DPP site worked fine for me.

[jfrancho]

Curtis, I thought of a better one:
Photoshop: http://www.wenger-knife.ch/htdocs/images/Pictures/surdoue.jpg
DPP: http://www.johnzo.com/images/marrying/spork.jpg

[I Simonius]

Just tried the DPP site and all I get is a broken QuickTime icon. Did it work for you Simon (or any other).

seems ok here

[PhotosGuy]

It worked for me.
If you don't care for the cost of PS, & don't like the limited functions of PSE, there's always the free GIMP at GIMP.org.