Shooting Basketball questions

[timbar21]

I'd like to be able to shoot Varsity and JV games at my high school.

The only things that are stopping me are:

- Lens: I have a 70/200 F4, I've read that something like a 85 1.8 is way better for basketball. Any other lens's I should/could look into? I've read the nifty fifty has too slow of auto focus.

- Lack of strobes: I have a Canon Speedlite flash, but that's it. Wouldn't a strobe or even flash distract the players?

- Settings: I've never shot Basketball before, so I don't know what I'd be getting into. IE: Shutter speed? Aperture? ISO? (my camera can only go to 1600)

Thanks guys!

[MJPhotos24]

- Lens: I have a 70/200 F4, I've read that something like a 85 1.8 is way better for basketball. Any other lens's I should/could look into? I've read the nifty fifty has too slow of auto focus.

I use a 70-200 for basketball all the time, but it's a 2.8 so ambient that helps but prefer to use strobes in the caves.

- Lack of strobes: I have a Canon Speedlite flash, but that's it. Wouldn't a strobe or even flash distract the players?

Direct flash is annoying if the person doesn't know what they're doing - it's not easy to have it on board and use without being distracting. Personally, as someone who's coached basketball at the high school level you're not getting away with direct in my gym and telling you to stop or leave.

- Settings: I've never shot Basketball before, so I don't know what I'd be getting into. IE: Shutter speed? Aperture? ISO? (my camera can only go to 1600)

Nobody can tell you the settings because nobody is sitting there right next to you with the same gear - you have to test and see what works. Basic info, find the f/stop and shutter you want and adjust ISO from there.

[timbar21]

- Lens: I have a 70/200 F4L, I've read that something like a 85 1.8 is way better for basketball. Any other lens's I should/could look into? I've read the nifty fifty has too slow of auto focus.

I use a 70-200 for basketball all the time, but it's a 2.8 so ambient that helps but prefer to use strobes in the caves.

- Lack of strobes: I have a Canon Speedlite flash, but that's it. Wouldn't a strobe or even flash distract the players?

Direct flash is annoying if the person doesn't know what they're doing - it's not easy to have it on board and use without being distracting. Personally, as someone who's coached basketball at the high school level you're not getting away with direct in my gym and telling you to stop or leave.

- Settings: I've never shot Basketball before, so I don't know what I'd be getting into. IE: Shutter speed? Aperture? ISO? (my camera can only go to 1600)

Nobody can tell you the settings because nobody is sitting there right next to you with the same gear - you have to test and see what works. Basic info, find the f/stop and shutter you want and adjust ISO from there.

Where do you usually stand on the gym? Behind the backboard? Or on the sideline?

Strobes: Would it be worth it to invest in strobes? And strobes wouldn't distract players?

Settings: True, thanks.

[snyderman]

MJ provided you with some pretty good info. I'll continue it by saying that your f/4 lens won't allow anywhere fast enough shutter speeds to shoot HS basketball.

Now, onto your question about the 85mm f/1.8. This is my 'go-to' lens for basketball because I shoot without flash for reasons MJ mentioned. On camera/shoe mount flash is definitely frowned upon by coaches and officials plus the results are horrible.

To get even decent ambient light basketball shots, my settings are ISO 1600-2500 ISO, (depending on available light) the 85mm opened up to f/2.0. These settings allow 1/640 on the shutter at any gym that I've shot in ... so far!.

Whith your lens at f/4 and ISO 1600 you'd be lucky to see 1/250 shutter speed. Not going to cut it.

Do some research on the strobed basketball over in the photo sharing sports section. Plenty of guys doing fantastic work mounting strobes and bouncing them off the gym ceilings, back walls, etc.

dave

[timbar21]

MJ provided you with some pretty good info. I'll continue it by saying that your f/4 lens won't allow anywhere fast enough shutter speeds to shoot HS basketball.

Now, onto your question about the 85mm f/1.8. This is my 'go-to' lens for basketball because I shoot without flash for reasons MJ mentioned. On camera/shoe mount flash is definitely frowned upon by coaches and officials plus the results are horrible.

To get even decent ambient light basketball shots, my settings are ISO 1600-2500 ISO, (depending on available light) the 85mm opened up to f/2.0. These settings allow 1/640 on the shutter at any gym that I've shot in ... so far!.

Whith your lens at f/4 and ISO 1600 you'd be lucky to see 1/250 shutter speed. Not going to cut it.

Do some research on the strobed basketball over in the photo sharing sports section. Plenty of guys doing fantastic work mounting strobes and bouncing them off the gym ceilings, back walls, etc.

dave

Thanks Dave! I guess if i want to shoot basketball i'd need to invest in the 85mm. I'll have to look into it. :)

Question, do you use strobes?

[MJPhotos24]

Strobes set up right do not distract players - the problem is many don't know what they're doing and just buy strobes throwing them up without any knowledge! I've talked to several coaches lately, as I've been shooting for a college, and every single one of them has said the same thing, they don't even notice them if the photographer sets them up right. Buying the stuff and knowing how to use it is two completely different things. So research, testing, and common sense are needed when using strobes.

[wyofizz]

What do you plan on doing with the photos?

[MT Stringer]

timbar, a guy was using two speedlights mounted on a light stand and it was tied off to a handrail on the second level at the basketball game last night. He had the stand extended up as high as they would go and the speedlights aimed out over the floor. He said he was licking the floor with the lights.

Note: He had a battery pack like flashzebra sells on each speedlight (4 flashes total). Battery life must have been good for him as he shot quiet a few images during the three game event.

I set up my strobes in similar fashion but so they worked on one end of the court only. He had his light stands - one on each side of the court at mid court. The speedlights were aimed in both directions so he could walk around. He was using Pocket Wizards to fire his speedlights. In fact, he came to me and we talked about the wireless triggers. Since I was using the Skyports, we weren't triggering each other's lights.

My strobes (Alien Bees 1600's) we set at 3/4 power and aimed across the court towards the top of the key. I shot over 300 pics.

I have been using the strobes and mostly bounce the light off the ceiling but this particular place had a dark ceiling/gridiron (it was a big place), There were almost 2600 people there.

All of my MaxPreps galleries (http://admin.maxpreps.com/FanPages/Public_Biography.mxp/id-f8c941d6-6214-4588-ba3c-e959a1adcf5f) in volleyball and basketball were shot with the strobes. I've had two complaints out of over 25k pops.

The game I'm talking about was Yates vs Seven Lakes (http://www.maxpreps.com/photo/gallery.aspx?imageid=7ab2876e-2d6c-47fb-bf64-d45a2cbc7bfc&photogalleryid=3ed458fd-0f7a-4ea0-8849-244553470342#imageid=7ab2876e-2d6c-47fb-bf64-d45a2cbc7bfc).

Note: I used the 70-200 f/2.8L IS on a 1D MK III and the wide angle shots were taken with a 40D and 17-40 f/4. I had to bump the ISO to 800 to get the exposure right. With the 70-200 I was shooting at f/3.2, ISO 500.

With the 85, you could probably sit right where I was and get similar results composition wise. I didn't get up or relocate because I would have lost my spot. There were 4 other shooters doing the same thing on my side of the baseline. The other side was full of cheerleaders.

Hope this helps a little and doesn't totally confuse you.
Mike

[DC Fan]

There's a chance that the Canon 70-200mm f/4 will work well for basketball.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/12292008c0062.jpg

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/12292008c0084.jpg

These images came from a slower lens, a 70-300mm IS, and both were in the 70-200mm's focal length range. Set the camera to ISO 1600, as was the case with these pictures, and you'll have a good chance of making the setup work.

[zelseman]

1/200 shutter speed is not fast enough for basketball IMHO.
1/200 w/strobes stopping the action, or 1/400(minimum) w/o strobes.

[MT Stringer]

I've been in quiet a few gyms and none of them have lighting good enough to lower the ISO below 2000. Mostly ISO 2500 - 3200 at f/2.5 - 2.8. I shot one game at a private school at ISO 6400, f/2 and 1/400 sec in RAW format. Several were under exposed and had to be bumped in Post processing. That place was dark.

IMHO, any lens less than a f/2.8 will only cause you grief in the long run if you aren't using some type of artificial lighting. I see moms and dads at almost every game trying to figure out why their pics look so bad (blurry, under exposed, etc).

Mike

[DDCSD]

If all you need is a few decent photos, the f/4 will work. If you want a lot of great photos, you'll need to get some strobes (and the 70-200 f/4 might work OK). If you want some pretty good photos, you'll need to get an 85 1.8. A 70-200 f/2.8 might work OK if you've got a really well lit gym.

I just started a thread yesterday showing the difference in ambient vs strobes in a somewhat typical (although fairly well lit) high school gym. The gym had a fair quantity of ambient light, but the quality of it was horrible.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=794814

[cgillespie76]

Depending on your ISO capability, f4 may be possible, but you'll be shooting on the bottom end of the shutter scale. Even the 20d was capable of shooting at 3200 which should give you almost enough to use the lens. Obviously, a 2.8 or even 1.8 would be preferable, but keep in mind you'll have a very shallow DOF. This will make it more of a challenge to get shots that are tack sharp. If strobes are an option, go for it, but that's a lot of work for a high school basketball game. I hope my reply isn't too late. If it helps, i'm continually changing my settings to try to get as close to the perfect combination as possible. Luckily, I shoot collegiate basketball, so the lighting compared to high school gyms is, well, night and day. I suggest shooting in M mode, f4, ISO cranked up, and set shutter to 640 to start with, and drop it down after each shot to see what gives you a decent exposure.