tilt shift lens

[bolantej]

Hey there everybody! just wondering who out there uses a tilt shift, and if it's worth the extra money. I am tempted, but don't see any people around that have one. what's the big turn off? price? ease of use? anyone have any experience with one?

[GPR1]

I don't have one of these lenes, but I have rented them. If you often need the tilt/shift feature, they're great. Right now I can't justify $1200 for an occassional use. They are awkward general use lenses -- very heavy and manual focus. However, if you do a good deal of landscape or architectural work, or if you like the creative effects, they're a lot of fun.

Greg

[csnudelman]

A good program such as Adobe's PhotoShop can go a long way in post correction.

[Longwatcher]

Well I have a 24mm TS-E lens from Canon and it works fairly well (on my full frame camera). I am of mixed opinion on whether it was worth the money or not as some of the functions can be done in PS these days, but I do feel you will get the highest quality by using the TS lens. I am still glad I got it as it is fun to play with occasionally. I don't do architecture on a regular basis though, if I did, I would use it a whole lot more.

A lens baby will also do some of the same functions as a TS lens and I think it is a whole lot cheaper, although definatey not for serious photography; it is for those seriously into photography :)

Just my experience,

[bolantej]

There's a Russian one that appears on eBay occasionally for under $200.00, I think.

that was actually the one i was looking at, and i've received a wide angle from them, and i like it's quality so far, so i figured that the ts would be a nice addition that will let me experiment a little and not break the bank too badly. :D we'll see how things work out. still deciding how i'm going to go about getting my 70-200 f4L without the "misses" finding out.:o thanks for the responses so far.

[lancea]

I suggest you do a search of these forums as there was an interesting thread on tilt-shift within the past 2-3 months. Most interesting bit was (I think, but could be getting mixed up) about getting huge depth of field. I was leafing through some of my first photography books last week, and these things were fundamental stuff. Now they're only in the hands of the specialists. I imagine they'd be darn hard to use with a little SLR viewfinder. If you get one show us some shots!

[bolantej]

thanks for all the replies. i certainly do not want to hear any "KAZINSKI", so I will contact the dealer and ask about written return policy. it may be a while until i get this, so maybe by then, i may forget it and save to get some L glass instead. i have heard of some canons having issure with the m43-canon adaptor, so that alone might keep me away from it. apparently, some have had the mirror hit the lens back or adaptor on some of the zenitar 16mm fisheyes with the adaptor, but the one i have has the adaptor "built in", and apperntly, this one has less problems. we will see.

[rdenney]

Expect a more informed opinion on this from rdenney. This is right up his alley!

More informed? Maybe, but probably not.

The Scheimpflug Rule says that the focus plane, the lens plane, and the film plane all intersect. In normal use on our cameras, they intersect at infinity (i.e., they are parallel). But if we tilt the lens, the focus plane will follow the intersection of the lens and film planes.

Here's Bloo Dog's issue. Let's say we want to take a picture of a forest floor carpeted with autumn leaves. The forest is dark so we need a wide aperture, and we want the low perspective that makes the leaves look like an endless sea. So, we put the camera on a tripod about two feet off the ground. With even a slightly wide lens, we will be able to see the leaves about four feet in front of the camera, with the camera level and the horizon in the center of the frame. If we aim the camera down to fill it with the leaves (for the most part), we can see everything from about two feet to the horizon. Obviously, we won't have sufficient depth of field to make it all look sharp.

We can bring it all in focus by tilting the lens downward slightly. How slightly? Well, if we are using a 4x5 camera, our slightly wide lens will have a focal length of 135mm, so it will be centered about 135mm in front of the film plane. So, to make the film plane, the lens plane, and the focus plane intersect at the ground. That makes a triangle 135mm at the top and two feet (300mm) along the film plane. Thus, we need a tilt of 24 degrees. (Getting the needed coverage for a tilt like this is why we invest in Super Angulons.)

With the 65mm tilt/shift lens Hartblei sells for my Exakta 66, I get the same field of view on the 6x6 frame from the same location. Now, our triangle is 66mm by 300mm, and the tilt angle needed to put the focus plane on the ground is 12 degrees.

A 24mm lens on my 10D will provide the same view from the same place, it being about 85% of the 28mm normal-lens focal length of that camera. The tilt I need is 4.5 degrees.

The point is that with the short lenses we use with our small sensors, tilting to move the focus plane is a really subtle thing in practice, and the lens requires very precise controls and we require a very good ability to focus on the screen. I can eyeball 24 degrees on my view camera to get to a starting point, and then fine tune using a loupe on the ground glass (and I use a 10X loupe in that format). I can't picture a 4.5-degree angle with any accuracy, and it's awfully hard to adjust by what I can see on the 10D focus screen with its 3x magnification of an image 17% the linear dimension of what my view camera produces.

The only tilt-shift lens I would consider for a camera with an APS sensor is the Canon 24mm lens, because for me the times I've needed a longer-than normal lens and tilts can be counted on the fingers of one elbow. The 24 is the only game in town that's an actual wide-angle lens on the 10D, and it isn't all that wide.

All that said, I still want one.

As far as perspective correction is concerned, I can shoot the picture with a 12mm lens, hold the camera vertical, and then crop off the part of the image I don't want to get the equivalent of the 24mm lens coverage. That gives me the effect of a huge amount of shift. The loss of resolution from all that cropping might not be worse than the effects of a perspective envelope in Photoshop, depending on the image.

Rick "who'd love to own a 15mm tilt/shift lens that would mount on the 10D" Denney

[djtowle]

Here's a couple images taken with the Canon 24mm: one using tilt, the other using shift to make a small panorama. Note the flower shot is hand held, I don't think I could have gotten the whole flower in focus handheld with a traditional lens.

http://www.pbase.com/djtowle/macrocloseup

http://www.pbase.com/djtowle/ts_pano

Personally I am thinking of trying the 90mm for some close-up work. It seems it would be advantagous to be able to tilt the focus plane for closeup work. I never seem to be able to get enough depth of field with just a macro lens.

[Marshall]

Look at the www.loreo.com website for their PC lens in a cap $25 inc.postage !! Worth a try ?

[rdenney]

Look at the www.loreo.com website for their PC lens in a cap $25 inc.postage !! Worth a try ?

I doubt it. For one thing, it's not wide angle with the small sensor. But the main problem in my view is that it's a plastic triplet. When I'm doing architectural work, sharpness is important right to the corners. That's why most PC lenses are usually the most sophisticated wide-angle lenses offered by optics companies. I would not expect this lens to be sharp at all, and especially not in the corners.

Also, it shifts only, so using it to adjust the focus plane (for which you need tilt) isn't possible.

Rick "who thinks in this case there is no substitute for the Canon 24" Denney

[Rense]

Bolantej,
I've recently purchased a tilt and shift lens.
See the very helpful thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=67964) from members of this forum.
The lens is expensive and needs much practice and reading before you can put it to good use. I'm still practicing now ...
;).

[bolantej]

that's a great thread, Rense. thank you.