Help me choose a CPL and GND kit

[Morlow]

I need filters for my Tokina 11-16 and soon-to-arrive Canon 17-40.

CPL:
I am looking to get a B&W MRC, but I am not sure if I need the slim or if the regular will not vignette on the Tokina @11mm. Do I need the slim?

GND kit:
I know there have been 1000 topics on this and I know everyone recommends Lee but I don't think I am ready to spend that much money. I have been looking at the 4x4 HiTech filters. Is the MK4 Wide Angle Holder sufficient for my Tokina? Also what is the difference between the MK4 1 holder and the MK4 2 holder? I wish they had pictures or descriptions on 2filter.com.

Edit: Also how do you store your filters? Should I buy some sort of filter holder?

[jyu67]

I'm not an owner of the B&W CPL's but I believe I read on here that the regular ones will not vignette on the Tokina on crops.

[argyle]

The Hitech GND's are 4x5, not 4x4. The plain old Hitech ND's are 4x4. The Lee foundation kit holder will take any brand of filter, not just those made by Lee. Hitech filters work just fine on the Lee holder. The only other affordable option as far as holders go is the Cokin Z-Pro holder, but since the Lee holder is only about $15-$20 more, its well worth it the extra money. Head and shoulders above the Z-Pro. For filters, go with the Hitech for now (they're good...don't let the price fool you). The Lee holder and the wide angle adapter ring and you'll be set.

As far as storage goes, I use the Lee filter pouch, holds ten. Adorama sells a pouch that holds five filters (I think) for only a few dollars. Can't remember the name of it...you'd have to check their site.

As far as the CPL goes, I use the B+W MRC Kaesemann in the F-Pro mount (non-slim) on my 5D2/17-40L and don't get any vignetting at 17mm. My guess (and its only a guess) is that you'd be okay at 11mm on a crop...

Shop around other than 2filter.com...seems every time I order something, its never in stock and I have to wait. Just ordered several Lee adapter rings and was told 'out of stock'. After waiting a week, I ordered them from B&H (at the same price, and free shipping) and had them in two days. The 2filter website leaves a lot to be desired...a 'not in stock' notice for out of stock items would really help. Lately, it seems that it takes just as long to get something from 2filter as it does from Hong Kong.

[Morlow]

Thanks argyle. Is this the foundation holder you are talking about? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87108-REG/LEE_Filters_FK_Foundation_Kit_Standard_4x4_.html#f eatures

Looks like the Lee adapter ring is out of stock at B&H. Gonna contact 2filter.com and see if they are in stock.

Anyone else have experience with the B&W CPL @11mm?

[argyle]

Thanks argyle. Is this the foundation holder you are talking about? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87108-REG/LEE_Filters_FK_Foundation_Kit_Standard_4x4_.html#f eatures

Looks like the Lee adapter ring is out of stock at B&H. Gonna contact 2filter.com and see if they are in stock.

Anyone else have experience with the B&W CPL @11mm?

That's the correct holder...you won't be disappointed. Too bad about the wide angle adapter ring (then again, 77mm is a very popular size).

[mike_d]

How wide can you go without vignetting using the Lee 77mm wide angle adapter ring?

[Morlow]

Is there any downside to just ordering the B&W Slim CPL just to be safe? Is the quality identical to the normal one? It's only about $5 extra for the slim.

[Jon]

The biggest one is going to be the lack of front threads on the B+W Slim mounts. That'll restrict you to the B+W slip-on (or other slip-on types) lens cap.

[argyle]

Also, without the front threads you wouldn't be able to attach the Lee holder if you had the need to do so (hand holding a GND in front is an option). OTOH Hoya makes a slim CPL with front threads.

[r.morales]

I use b+w KSM CPL's .
did you know that a cpl will work as an ND ?
My b+w gives me up to 2 stops , is variable .
My Canon 10-22 does not vignette at 10 with a uv and KSM in front .
i had problems 25 to 30 years ago with the plastic mount and filters . They were in back of truck in metal box in Desert .
CAMERA STORE LAUGHED AND GAVE ME A STORE CREDIT and displayed as to why you should stick with screw on's .
Why do you care ? If you buy used you may end up with old plastic .
I only use screw on ND's and have not used this year .
I have ND 2 , and 4 in 77 mm , 58 mm , 52 mm .A nd 2 in 72 and 55 mm .

[Morlow]

I use b+w KSM CPL's .
did you know that a cpl will work as an ND ?
My b+w gives me up to 2 stops , is variable .
My Canon 10-22 does not vignette at 10 with a uv and KSM in front .
i had problems 25 to 30 years ago with the plastic mount and filters . They were in back of truck in metal box in Desert .
CAMERA STORE LAUGHED AND GAVE ME A STORE CREDIT and displayed as to why you should stick with screw on's .
Why do you care ? If you buy used you may end up with old plastic .
I only use screw on ND's and have not used this year .
I have ND 2 , and 4 in 77 mm , 58 mm , 52 mm .A nd 2 in 72 and 55 mm .

Thank you. This is the clarification I needed about vignetting with the CPL. I will go ahead and get the normal one then.

[smashing.poot]

I need filters for my Tokina 11-16 and soon-to-arrive Canon 17-40.

CPL:
I am looking to get a B&W MRC, but I am not sure if I need the slim or if the regular will not vignette on the Tokina @11mm. Do I need the slim?

GND kit:
I know there have been 1000 topics on this and I know everyone recommends Lee but I don't think I am ready to spend that much money. I have been looking at the 4x4 HiTech filters. Is the MK4 Wide Angle Holder sufficient for my Tokina? Also what is the difference between the MK4 1 holder and the MK4 2 holder? I wish they had pictures or descriptions on 2filter.com.

Edit: Also how do you store your filters? Should I buy some sort of filter holder?

I highly recommend a slim polarizer, I used the hoya HD on the tokina 11-16 and had no problems with vignetting. The slimness will help you handhold a GND in front of the lens.

I usually handhold my GNDs as it is much faster and efficient. It takes too much time when the light is quickly changing to mess around with holders. it works for me :)

[Morlow]

I highly recommend a slim polarizer, I used the hoya HD on the tokina 11-16 and had no problems with vignetting. The slimness will help you handhold a GND in front of the lens.

I usually handhold my GNDs as it is much faster and efficient. It takes too much time when the light is quickly changing to mess around with holders. it works for me :)

Are you saying it's possible to get away with absolutely no holder? I don't disagree because I have actually considered that, I'm just curious what the opinion is.

As far as the slim goes, I'm thinking I may as well just get the slim one since it's only $5 more, and I'm really not that worried about being able to put a lens cap on it.

[r.morales]

To me the caps are important . I have old caps that the my 52 and 55 screw into . I can not find ones that fit the 72 and 77 sizes .
I hate getting out a clean filter and finding dust on it . I keep the filters I don't have rear caps for in their plastic cases - in a filter pouch .
The caps - rear help to keep threads clean

[smashing.poot]

Are you saying it's possible to get away with absolutely no holder? I don't disagree because I have actually considered that, I'm just curious what the opinion is.

As far as the slim goes, I'm thinking I may as well just get the slim one since it's only $5 more, and I'm really not that worried about being able to put a lens cap on it.

yes, There is no need to really spend $$$. Like everyone else, I got one initially, it has been sitting in the closet once I got comfortable hand holding grads. If you need a cokin P system let me know :) I have both the wide angle holder and the normal 3 slot system with 67 and 77mm rings.

BTW, hoya HD polarizers come with thread in front. So you get a slim profile and you can cap it too :) Oh yeah, they are pricey.

[Morlow]

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to skip the holder and just get the filters for now. I'm looking at the HiTech 4x5 filters since they are reasonably priced and seem to have a good opinion on these forums.

Also, what two edges would you guys recommend for Yellowstone-type landscapes? I'm thinking 0.6 soft and 0.9 soft, but I am very uncertain about that.

Edit: Just ordered the CPL, didn't realize it was coming from Hong Kong. I was really wanting it by Saturday but it doesn't look like that will happen. :(

[r.morales]

You can blurr with software . Sharpening is a lot harder . Take the sharpest / biggest depth of field and blur later -- just me .

[argyle]

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to skip the holder and just get the filters for now. I'm looking at the HiTech 4x5 filters since they are reasonably priced and seem to have a good opinion on these forums.

Also, what two edges would you guys recommend for Yellowstone-type landscapes? I'm thinking 0.6 soft and 0.9 soft, but I am very uncertain about that.

Edit: Just ordered the CPL, didn't realize it was coming from Hong Kong. I was really wanting it by Saturday but it doesn't look like that will happen. :(

2-stop soft, 3-stop hard should cover you for most situations.

[LV Moose]

I just received my EF-S 10-22 a couple days ago, and have been researching the best way to go for GND set-up. 2filter.com has the following combination: Z Pro holder, 77mm ring, Hitech 4X5 GND filter of your choice, for $146 (free shipping, I think). http://www.2filter.com/prices/Hitech_Z_package.html

If you put the same combo together at B&H, it's about $7 more (don't know about shipping cost for the various items) , which is no big deal. It might come down to who has it in stock, and shipping time. But that's probably the set-up I'll get.

[argyle]

Really, do yourself a favor...spend the extra $15 or $20 for the Lee holder. Its much better than the Z-Pro and worth the extra few dollars.

[LV Moose]

Really, do yourself a favor...spend the extra $15 or $20 for the Lee holder. Its much better than the Z-Pro and worth the extra few dollars.

I thought about that, but they were back-ordered (at B&H at least), and I was hoping to put it under the tree before Christmas gets here. So anyway, I sent off for the Z-Pro shortly after my last entry. If I end up not liking it, there's always my birthday ;).

Happy holidays, bud.

[Mike K]

2-stop soft, 3-stop hard should cover you for most situations.

I agree with this suggestion as a starting point. After you use them for awhile you will get a feeling for what works in different scenes and you can order more if needed. The Hitech are fairly soft plastic, so they will scratch easily.

Remember to stop down (depth of preview button) to adjust the position of the GND in the viewfinder (live view is really useful). Smaller apertures make it easier to see the effect (edge) of the GND.
Mike K

[LV Moose]

I agree with this suggestion as a starting point. After you use them for awhile you will get a feeling for what works in different scenes and you can order more if needed. The Hitech are fairly soft plastic, so they will scratch easily.
Mike K

Not to argue... I've just recently started looking into GND filters... but unless I'm mistaken, all the major brands (Hitech, Lee, Cokin, Hoya, even Singh Ray and B+W) use resin for their GND's, except for Tiffen P-series (glass). Granted, there may be a difference in the quality of their resins (not sure if that includes the level of hardness), but I'd be careful about scratching any of them.

[Morlow]

A couple more questions, firstly regarding handholding filters and scratches. How do you hold the filter to the lens without scratching it?

Secondly, I had a 2-stop soft and 3-stop hard for my old 18-55 and I found I almost never used the 2-stop because the sky is always way brighter than the foreground. I don't know if it is just Kansas because when I was in Yellowstone there were a couple days where the sky metered almost exactly the same as the ground, which I have never seen here. Does this depend a lot on the time of day? I haven't tested this.

[smashing.poot]

Secondly, I had a 2-stop soft and 3-stop hard for my old 18-55 and I found I almost never used the 2-stop because the sky is always way brighter than the foreground. I don't know if it is just Kansas because when I was in Yellowstone there were a couple days where the sky metered almost exactly the same as the ground, which I have never seen here. Does this depend a lot on the time of day? I haven't tested this.

Yes, it depends on the time of the day and the angle of the light. During sunsets, sunrises when shooting directly at the sun will produce a 3-4 stop difference between foreground and sky. So, it depends!

Also, don't worry too much about scratches, etc , etc. Just get some system and start shooting, you will figure out automatically down the line. :) In two years of dealing with hitech grads, I haven't 'scratched' them much in spite of hand holding and storing them in ziplocs.

[jsinon]

Here is where I got my Hitech's, http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index
With the exchange rate at the time my 1, 2, 3 stop soft edge set in the Cokin P size cost me just under $60 including shipping. 2filter, B&H etc wanted around $40 just for one. Admittedly the one stop gets very little use, but it does get used at times. As for holders, as nice as the Lee holders might be, I have yet to have an issue with my, under $10, ebay Cokin P holder. That is with the appropriate sized mounting ring and shipping included for that price.

Just don't be in a hurry to get them, it took about 2 weeks to receive mine.

[lazer-jock]

Ah, too many decisions... (and tagging this thread)

[LV Moose]

Here is where I got my Hitech's,

Just don't be in a hurry to get them, it took about 2 weeks to receive mine.

I can't complain about 2filter.com; I ordered mine four days ago (see post #19) and it was here when I arrived home from work last night. And that was at the free shipping rate.

[jsinon]

I bet i would get them even faster than that since I'm in the same state they are. I've heard nothing but good things about them as well. But since I'm not made of money, and the price difference is enough, I'll have to go with the best price I can get. Even if I need to wait a little longer to receive them.