1dmark2n in low light gyms

[dman64]

My first basketball pics with 1dmark2n not so good.
I shoot with 85 1.8 at 2.0 maybe the 85 is to short.
Had alot more keepers from my 40d in low light.
Check out this site http://dman.zenfolio.com/p440191223 the pass word is trash all other pics on this site i use my 40d they my not be great but better then what i have now. The 1dm2n I just cant hold a fast shutter above 300 or 400 if that. When above iso 1600 way to much noise.
any suggestion
Thanks

[geoff5093]

Did you do any editing? What I notice right off the bat is incorrect white balance in most shots, slow shutter speeds, and some focusing issues. In order for me to get 1/400 I had to shoot at ISO 3200 with my 100mm 2.8. Yes it's noisy, but most can be corrected in PP, IMO it's better for the image to be a tad soft with NR then blurred images. Also watch your horizons in some of the shots.

Do you have some samples from your 40D? Lots of those seem to have come out pretty good for ambient light.

[Big K]

The biggest problem I can see is that you are slightly underexposed. The MkIIn and noise is a real problem if you are even slightly underexposed. Try pushing the ISO to the max and shooting about +1/3 on the exposure and I think you will find the results more appealing.

[aram535]

If you shoot RAW, you can save most images with basic noise reduction. I've shot entire games at ISO 3200, f/2.8 and barely making 1/400th. I've even cheated and did -1/3 exposure and was still able to get some images back using LR. Yes, noise is a problem, but not if you don't let it stop you from getting the shot.

[BaumannPhotography]

The biggest problem I can see is that you are slightly underexposed. The MkIIn and noise is a real problem if you are even slightly underexposed. Try pushing the ISO to the max and shooting about +1/3 on the exposure and I think you will find the results more appealing.

I found the same to be true. Also after a few years using different raw programs for high iso low light, I still find DPP to handle the files the best. This is purely personal preference though.

[geoff5093]

If you shoot in manual mode though you can't set the exposure to +1/3 right?

[Big K]

If you shoot in manual mode though you can't set the exposure to +1/3 right?

You can if you 1) Reduce shutter speed by 1/3 stop from optimum setting 2) Increase ISO 1/3 stop from optimum setting 3) Open aperture up 1/3 stop from optimum setting. :-)

You can't do it with a camera setting you just have to manually overexpose by 1/3.

[pantherphotos]

Sure the images are a bit noisy. But absolutely nothing noise reduction software can't fix. Add some selective sharpening, so only the subject gets sharpened, and you can even get away with more aggressive noise reduction. The last 4 volleyball games are all with my 1D2 and at ISO 3200. Not too much problems with noise when properly PP'd.

[dman64]

Thanks for the feedback guys
here are some samples from my 40d in the same gym http://dman.zenfolio.com/p875614889
I use a expodisc for wb and canon software DDP.
Heres a crazy one the coach of the team just got a t1 rebel and ask if i could take some pics and check it out for him. I put my 85 1.8 on it and wow it realy took some nice pics. @ 1600 and 3500 iso very nice speed at 500 600. try and get some pics to post, maybe time to look at a 7D?

[cstewart]

Some other general comments for final display of photos:

1) CROP tighter in post processing to remove extra background.
2) Delete and do not post obvious out of focus shots or shots where player is blocked (eg #24)
3) For Bball, get LOWER, ie sit on floor if possible and shoot. Many of your shots seem from a high angle and Bball really needs a lower POV for good photos.
4) correct your horizons (eg 30, 40, 41) stands are way too tilted. This is a simple correction in post and will make a ton of difference in final look of photo.

As to the noise, it is what it is, If that is all you can get light wise, don't worry about it and correct as much as possible with NR software but be careful not to overdo it as NR softens details and can make images look too "washed out" or looking like a bad watercolor painting. Most of your keeper images I saw looked fine and simply could benefit more from my comments above.

[Croasdail]

Other than color balance being off, I am not really seeing what the problem is here. The venues have crappy lighting, back backgrounds, you can't get baseline, and the level is what it is. I am not sure what you are expecting a better camera body to do for you. The motion blur in some of them is camera motion, not shutter speed directly related. The 1D is a heavy camera. I actually shoot a 50D now even though I have 2 1D cameras still. A better camera body is not going to do magic with a poor venue. It is just what it is. A couple of alien bees and some PWs is a cheaper way to fix your lighting problem. Takes more setup, but the end result is a lot better than any camera body is going to do for you.... if you want to spend some money that is.

But really, these just aren't that bad.

[ChasWG]

I like the look of the 40D images better than the 1D MKII. But is that just him not using the new body to it's full potencial?
I shot my son's games last friday night with one hotshoe mounted 540EZ bouncing straight up and I think I came away with some keeps, for a first time newb to Bball photography.
But yes, sitting down low is a more pleasing angle to not only basketball, but kids as well. The standing position gives the images the same look that a parents sees their kid all the time. Looking down to them. We all what our little sports stars to look like heros, getting low gives that to them. That and most kids at that age dribble looking down at the hardwood.
I'll also say this, I too had a hard time with the WB. I tried several different settings and it seemed nothing worked. I even did the custom WB, nope. Thank God for PP!

What noise reduction software do you all recomend?

[dman64]

I must be useing the wrong settings.
what custom settings do you use in low for basketball

[RGolfJ]

I use K as the WB setting. Usually start around 4200 and adjust from there.

[dman64]

Thanks guys for the info.
Tryed some different settings at last nights basketball game.
wb is a little better. But the focus is off maybe i need to have 45 AF points? my next stop would be to send it in to canon. I believe the 1dmark2n is a great camrea for outdoor sports & indoor pro settings
but for low light school gyms the 40d is more cleaner at 1600 & 3200 iso.

[geoff5093]

Thanks guys for the info.
Tryed some different settings at last nights basketball game.
wb is a little better. But the focus is off maybe i need to have 45 AF points? my next stop would be to send it in to canon. I believe the 1dmark2n is a great camrea for outdoor sports & indoor pro settings
but for low light school gyms the 40d is more cleaner at 1600 & 3200 iso.
You can fix WB in PP, I tend to use the custom WB function and find something in the gym that is the whitest, then have the camera use that image for the custom WB. It tends to be only 50-100K off of ideal when I edit it.

I also only use one focus point, typically the center-point. If you are having it automatically select the focus points then it may focus on players that you aren't trying to track. Also use AI SERVO.

[Sibil]

You can if you 1) Reduce shutter speed by 1/3 stop from optimum setting 2) Increase ISO 1/3 stop from optimum setting 3) Open aperture up 1/3 stop from optimum setting. :-)

You can't do it with a camera setting you just have to manually overexpose by 1/3.
Kevin, although I understand what you are saying, shooting manual in ambient light it would be difficult to get consistent +1/3 exposure with the cycling lights.

[Big K]

Kevin, although I understand what you are saying, shooting manual in ambient light it would be difficult to get consistent +1/3 exposure with the cycling lights.

Av or Tv mode, using exposure compensation is just as impacted by light cycling caused exposure changes since the metering is not done at the exact moment the shutter is open. To my knowledge, there is no way to deal with this variation in camera and about all you can do is cuss at your monitor when looking at the results after the game and adjust with software.

[inchman254]

All good comments here. These are pretty good shots given the limitations of virtually every gym.

One other minor nit that I will point out is that almost all of the pics need a minor rotate to get them level. You can't use horizontal surfaces to do this is gyms, but vertical cues like corners, doors and the edges of backboards work great for this.

[Sibil]

Av or Tv mode, using exposure compensation is just as impacted by light cycling caused exposure changes since the metering is not done at the exact moment the shutter is open. To my knowledge, there is no way to deal with this variation in camera and about all you can do is cuss at your monitor when looking at the results after the game and adjust with software.

yup, you are right, the camera in AV can't keep up well either. Indeed, there is lots of cusing going on with ambient shooting, at least behind my monitor. I really understand/appreciate the merits of strobing a gym.