Remind me again - dark skinned subjects

[MTalley]

I think I ran across this before in one of the forums, so here goes again.

I'm doing some portraits for a couple from work (photography is my 2nd job). They are both Indian (from India, not native American Indian) and both are pretty dark-skinned.

I've been practicing for weeks on my family (light-skinned) with different lighting, backgrounds, clothing and such, so this assignment is a new area for me. I've got a couple of books on portraiture, but they don't dwell much on skin tones vs. background vs. clothing, for example.

Forgot to add that we're doing two sittings. This weekend, they want to pose in their "western" clothing (i.e. what they typically wear here in the States) and next weekend in traditional Indian garments. That one should be interesting, as I've seen some pretty brightly colored and ornate garments worn by a couple of the Indian wives of our employees at parties and other office functions.

Any tips appreciated. I'll go now and dig through my books again.

[roanjohn]

I would probably set my exposure with a grey card...........and set the camera on manual.

But this is me...............there must be somebody here who can give a more technical answer.

Good luck though!!

Ro1

[MTalley]

Well, Manual is a given, since I'll be using my two-flash setup. I'll probably do some test shots with them, first, to get the exposure right. I guess I'm more interested in more appropriate backdrops, etc. I'm thinking a light backdrop, since we're not going low-key.

How are the sales going from your dance studio shoot, roanjohn?

[PhotosGuy]

I would probably set my exposure with a grey card...........and set the camera on manual. Sounds right to me. Keep in mind that a dark toned subject should be dark toned in a print, unless you're going for a Michael Jackson effect? ;-)I'm thinking a light backdrop, since we're not going low-key. Consider that a light background will make the subjects look darker in comparison. I'd go with a mid-toned or darker background to reverse that effect. You might like to try a warm, dark brown color & hit it with a medium spot.

[Longwatcher]

I did a quick check of my site for an example (since I am not at home). If very dark skin, they may look better on a dark background as a light backdrop may overwealm them, unfortunately I did not have enough examples online to get a good feel, only an impression. I usually swap backgrounds mid-shoot if not using my nuetral gray background.

Just my impression,

[Croasdail]

When ever I am in doubt - which is quit often - and I absolutely need to get the image right and it is posed - I use bracketing. It is a cheat way to make sure you get the picture right if you subject can put up with the multiple shots.

[roanjohn]

Well, Manual is a given, since I'll be using my two-flash setup. I'll probably do some test shots with them, first, to get the exposure right. I guess I'm more interested in more appropriate backdrops, etc. I'm thinking a light backdrop, since we're not going low-key.

How are the sales going from your dance studio shoot, roanjohn?

Yeah.........I agree with the light backdrop............:D

My sales...........hmmm.............they're going slowly but surely. So far, I've made $104 USD!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ro1

[MTalley]

Well, round one is complete. I'm still doing a little post-processing, but a sample is attached. From every shoot, I try to learn something. Here's what I gathered today.

1. RAW is definitely your friend. I did so much correction in RawShooter Essentials before even touching PS. All those easy to use sliders are a joy.

2. 44 inch wide fabric from the fabric store works for a single portrait, but makes shooting a couple a very difficult proposition - trying to keep both of them within the boundaries of such a narrow piece of fabric. I'm going to start investing in some real, 6 foot wide backdrops. I couldn't position the couple more than two or three feet away from the backdrop, making it more in focus than I wanted.

3. I needed about another stop of lighting. I fixed that in RSE (though the attached sample could probably use another 1/3 stop on the gentleman). I was already down to F/4 and didn't want to start losing sharp focus by opening up the aperature any further. The "Duh" moment later on was that I could've stepped up to ISO-200 (I was at 100) and fixed that problem post-haste.

4. Make sure the background material is hanging straight. I had a little shaded area at the top-right in most of the photos. I've managed so far to dodge and burn the area to look a little more normal (not shown in this photo).

Anyway, I've got a few extra tips for our second half shoot. They'll be wearing traditional Indian clothing for that shoot.

[symes]

Looks like the typical pose - good stuff

One thing...
Is that a little bit of Flash Shadow I see in the background to the right of the man's head?

Cheers,

[PhotosGuy]

Your results look pretty good, though I do agree that the background could be more OOF. The "Duh" moment - I tend to forget that, too! All those years shooting film I guess.

"4. Make sure the background material is hanging straight. I had a little shaded area at the top-right in most of the photos. I've managed so far to dodge and burn the area to look a little more normal (not shown in this photo)." Tape will work. I've used fishing weights that have a squeeze clamp attached, too except not with a fan on the set. ;-)

Only other comment is that they look SO "Formal" & you've cut off her hands when you have a lot of room at the top.

[Longwatcher]

Just for trivia,
A little trick I do, if you know you are going to be working in photoshop anyway.
Is buy two lengths of fabric and place one side-by-side and a little over the other and then sew together to give you almost a double width background. Yes the seam will show, however as long as you avoid the seam running into hair you can easily remove using clone/heal tools in PS. It is best to have the seam come down on a shoulder.

Then you can bring them away from the backdrop and get more OOF on the background. Which actualy makes it easier to PS out the seam. That is how I manage 8+ foot backdrops.

Lastly every once in awhile the fabric stores will have fabric that is much wider. I recently got a white backdrop that works very well that is 9 feet wide cloth, I think I got 12 yards of it. Flimsy, but it was way cheaper then backdrop cloth.

While not one of my best shots, it does show how to make seam go away even if it comes down on hair using my gray backdrop. If you look real close at top of head you can see slight smear in hair.

http://www.longwatcher.com/images/20040518_Grey/CRW_4930_edit.jpg

BTW: the lighter weight the cloth the harder it is to get straight. Thus canvas is usually nice.

Just my experience,

[MTalley]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Good idea on the double-width cloth and PS'ing out the seam.

Yeah, that's a really formal and somewhat stiff shot. I've got others that look more natural, just picked that one out more or less at random.

Yes, that is a little flash shadow to the man's right. A byproduct of being so close to the background.

But, my "clients" realize that this is a learning experience for me. He came up to me today and said that he and his wife had a lot of fun and look forward to our next set of poses in traditional Indian clothing.

Fortunately, I have an entire set of things that I came away from the last shoot with that I can use to improve the next one. The first order of business is to get my wife to pop back down to the fabric store, grab a couple more yards of fabric and get busy sewing. :D

Yes, that was kinda bad chopping off the lady's hands in the particular camera crop I used, above. As soon as I saw it on the computer, I smacked my forehead.

Anyway, I'm going to use our 27" TV for previews this next go-round. I need an extension video cable to get to it from my camera so we can all see the results on a larger screen.

Oh, the other lesson learned. Even the simplest equipment should be kept in duplicate. Of all things to fail just as we were getting started, my 15' PC flash trigger cord decided that it was going to have a flaky connection at the camera end. It always was a very tight fit into the Wein SafeSync PC connector and, apparently, I've compromised some connection inside the cable's camera end connector.

[PhotosGuy]

MUCH lighter than you have shown. I have to disagree, Bloo. Lighter clothes & background will make the skin tones look darker by comparison. I was planning to do this for a class anyway, so I've included a comparison below. Hope you don't mind Malcolm. My experience is that even VERY dark skinned subjects prefer to see features over technically "correct" skin tonality. Or are you approaching this from a marketing perspective? Lighter skin tones = more sales? :confused:

[mgbeach]

I'd invest in an exposure/white balance target. We used the one available at the link below in CharlesU's workshop this weekend and it was really great.
It comes with a DVD that shows how to get the most out of its use.

http://www.photovisionvideo.com/target.html

[d'homme]

Never photograph darker skined people in lighter clothes or a light background.

[MTalley]

:D I love ya, Bloo Dog.

By the way, next weekend, we're doing the same couple in traditional Indian clothing. Her outfit will be primarily a pink to fuschia color. His will be, if I remember correctly, more of a peach or off-white gauze-like garment, so we'll be lighter colors.

Also, regarding the distance from the backdrop, see my notes about the width of my material, above. I plan to have something much wider this next weekend. Like I said, that was one of my lessons learned (which is important, for sure).

Also, yeah, I wish I had a hair light and background light, but right now I'm stuck with my two flash setup. Would tungsten/halogen/other constant light sources suffice in a pinch (mixed with flash)?

I know what else I was going to ask. I had the traditional light next to the camera and light at 45 degrees on the other side set up. In almost all of the pictures, both subjects had two catchlights in each eye. Fortunately, this is easy to correct in PS (less so if you have more than 17 shots to process). Any hints or tips in this area?

[PhotosGuy]

A DARKER background doesn't help! :D Don't hold back, Bloo. Tell me what you really feel! ;):D Also, yeah, I wish I had a hair light and background light, but right now I'm stuck with my two flash setup. Would tungsten/halogen/other constant light sources suffice in a pinch (mixed with flash)? A tungsten/halogen light mixed with flash WB will be very warm. You'll need a blue gell to cool it down and, depending on the relative powers of the lights, MIGHT give you enough light.
Can you borrow a slave somewhere?

[PhotosGuy]

Doesn't someone make a really cheap combination both-in-1 slaved flash?

I'd use a Vivitar because I could get fine control with the VariPower module. But then, I mostly use them 'cause they just won't die! ;-)

[MTalley]

I'm using two flashes right now, shooting through umbrellas. I have an older Vivitar 2000 (triggered via PC cord from a Wein SafeSync - mindful of the measured 86 V trigger signal on the flash) that I'm using for one flash. I think it has a guide number of 82 (ft.). I have another Vivitar DF200 slave flash (no hotshoe contacts, purely an optical slave) with a guide number of around 102 (ft.) or so.

How about something with one flash set up more to the side and a reflector opposite. That would free up the slave to either be a hair light or backdrop light.

I've got another stand, boom and DF200 in my B&H Wishlist that would give me a good hair light setup for just around $120 US or so.

We went to the fabric store this evening and bought 2 yards of white muslin, 90" wide. I'm thinking of hanging it short side up, so I have a good 6' wide backdrop that is 8.5' long. It is bleached white. I also bought another couple yards of the grey backdrop material that my wife is going to sew into the first piece so I have a 6' wide by almost 8' long piece. The seam would be horizontal, so it'll probably be easier to PS out, since it would probably cut across below the shoulders.

Still, all in all, for a learning experience, this has been great. Keep 'em coming.

[MTalley]

And who says you MUST work in the studio? Unless the heat of the day keeps you inside, you can use local architecture and landscape to your advantage.

Actually, I've done about a dozen portrait shoots outdoors prior to this one, due mainly to the lack of any good setup (no umbrellas, stands, etc.) We're in the deep south (southern Alabama). Today's temperature, for example, was around 92 degrees. Humidity was up there, too.

We do have some nice architectural features nearby. If next weekend is mild enough, I might suggest one of those sites as an alternate to studio work, or we could do both.

[MTalley]

Already done. I've got two foamcore boards I bought for outdoor fill lighting and WB adjustments. I'll play around some more before next weekend and use my daughter for a model (she loves to do that).