U.S. Grand Prix at Indy suggestions

[JereMIA]

I am heading to the Formula 1 race at Indy this weekend and was looking for some help (or a rough starting point) regarding settings. I will be using a 20D with my 70-200/f4 lens, I know it's not a lot of reach from the grandstands, but hopefully I can get some decient shots while walking the track during practice or qualifiing.

This is my first attempt at shooting auto racing (with a DSLR) so any help would be greatly appreciated. I assume shutter speeds will be mostly trial and error depending on relative position to the cars. But, what would be good starting points regarding shutter and ISO? Please let me know of any other camera settings that may increase my chances of getting shots worthy of posting here?? Thank You

[Persian-Rice]

Shoot TV, 250 or drop to 160 for some pan. AF Servo. Keep ISO somewhere to get the aperture smaller then fully wide, just in case their is a slight shade and you end up under exposing, play with it throughout the day. Obviously, the lower the ISO better for panning. If it's your first time, take advantage of your 5 FPS. If you are inexperienced and taking single shots, chances are many will either be poor composition or have something wrong with them. I forget the function, but thumb focus.

Focus well before the car comes into the screen and track it, compose and shoot. Your camera and you just aren't fast enough to sit there and take the shot while the car flashes by. It is necessary to track. Which allows you to achieve focus and compose. If you are getting enough reach, which I highly doubt the 200mm at Indy will be able to do, then make sure fill the viewfinder. If there is not enough reach, work with the the composition, ie rule of thirds, perspectives, and angles. Motor sports tend to look much more interesting when you take the shot on an angle.

[kbreit]

I too am at the GP this weekend. I'd love to keep this thead going through Sunday so that everyone can share their tips about how to shoot such a challenging scenario.

[Persian-Rice]

Its not that hard actually........well, my first F1 shooting experience with good equipment ended up being after I have shot a ton of other motorsport and shooting from the press area, but they are all the same. F1 is much faster, but you should be able to keep up.

Also, try things at diff focal lengths. You would be surprised that even at 70mm you can get some interesting photographs. Move around in the grandstand. I know the USGP doesn't usually sell out, which is good for Friday practise. Move around and try to get shot from different places in the grandstand. Some higher up some lower. Get the guys on their outlaps where they go slow. During quali you can get the guys on their warm up and cooldown. On cooldown they go VERY slow, so you can get lots of shots.

BTW, might as well ask here. How much you guys pay for tickets and hotels? I'm thinking of setting up a tour of GPs next year. Gilles Villeneuve, Indianapolis and Spa. I hear they are much cheaper at Indianapolis then hear in Canada, whats the deal? My tickets this year were about $300 a pop and forget Hotel prices, for four nights it came out to well over two grand.

[KartGirlsMom]

This will be the first year that I haven't gone. Ticket prices for good seats at the USGP are about $85. My daughter is on her way now. She is planning to purchase tickets from a scalper (she will probably pay less than face value) on the street. She is staying at the Super 8 up by the Pyramids (20-30 minutes away) and I think she is paying about $100 per night. She just got the room last week as she decided that she would have more fun with her friends if they didn't stay with my mother :)

As far as photos, I think it's hard to get good shots there. Everything is either far away or through a fence. The best ones I've gotten were at turn 6? (the infield left hander) through the fence and in the pits during qualifying. (Watch out for the crazy Columbians - the hang out accross from Juan Pablo's pits and are very verbal - MONTOYA!!, MONTOYA!!) The longest lens I have is 70-200 f2.8 with a 1.4 converter. So maybe you will have better luck with a longer lens. I didn't even bring my camera last year.

Have a great time. I wish I was going. Cheer for Kimi for me.

[dng]

I was just at the montreal grand prix last week, and it was my first time shooting a race event. I didnt find it too difficult, but i did have trouble getting a motion blur on the background of some pics i guess my shutter was set too fast. I was using a 20D with a 70-200L f2.8 lens and found that it was pretty good, and that i didnt need to go longer, I was at turn 6 and 7 i think I was about 50 - 60 feet away. One thing i would suggest is that you should try to shoot from different angles and locations, because i was in a grandstand i realized that most of my shots look pretty much the same, cause i was sitting in the same spot for the entire race. Oh well i think i still got some great shots, and i had a wicked time at the race. I guess ill take what i learned and used them at the molson indy. ;)

[JereMIA]

Thanks for all the tips, I will definitely put your advice to use. My C.Fn-04 is already set to 1, and I also prefer my AF point locked on center for moving subjects, so I'm good in that sense. It's the panning/ focusing/ correct shutter speed for some blur that will be new to me!

Regarding the tickets: The last race I went to was Montreal 2 years back and I bought a weekend package which was expensive for good seats. This year I took my brothers advice, and bought just a Sunday, Silver grandstand race ticket for 165.00 US. On Saturday we will purchase a cheap, general admission ticket, just to get in and walk around for practice and qualifying. He works for IBM and travels often, so he sees quite a few F1 races, and claims there are always tickets available for Saturday (He better be right!) The Hotel is downtown, and had one of the higher ratings, it was about 220.00 a night.

[kbreit]

$85 for tickets and then I think $25 for the Thursday/Friday/Saturday package, which really isn't bad. At least I think that's how much it cost.

Then my friend and I have a hotel room (2 beds!) for $135 a night or something down that line. We're south of the city, about 20 minutes away from the track. It's a bit far, but oh well. The receptionist is cute!

[Camo 757]

I'll be there too! Picked up a 1.4x last night to get some extra reach. Should be bright and sunny Sunday. Can't wait!

[Duder]

did you get many race photos? :rolleyes:

what a total disgrace that was. :evil: I never thought I'd see F1 sink lower than Austria 2002, but today did it.

[neil_r]

Fiasco, did you stay?

N

[coatsie]

Mmm not the best day for motor racing - couldn't believe the price you lot pay over there - much cheaper than here?

Still interested in seeing the photos though - all six cars.

:(

[felix21685]

Man what a sad day for F1 fans here in the US..
i cant image what it would be like to shell out up to what is it 100-200 dollars for tickets and see another test session by bridgestone..

i can not believe what michelin did.. How could they not have brought a tire that was good enough?
this is the 6th time they are here..if it was the first time i would have understood but now ?

im still watching the tape i recorded while i was at church this morning.
what a sad day man.

They should have given all bridgestone drivers the points and put in a chicane at turn 13..

what do you guys think ?

guys of POTN that went..please still share your pics!!!.
tell your side of the story..what did you guys hear?

[Sikario]

At least any photos taken today are evidence of a day that will never be forgotten in F1 history.

Roll on Magny Cours.

[kbreit]

I was at the race and as a Ferrari fan, happy with the result. Over all though, I am disappointed that it wasn't a more competitive race. I agree, it was completely Michelin's fault that things went so poorly.

While fun for Ferrari fans, it wasn't the most exciting thing ever, save Michael coming out of the pits into Rubens :)

[KartGirlsMom]

What a mess. I guess I'm glad I couldn't go this year.

[dodger]

a total disgrace,
doubt there will be an indy GP next year,
its cocked up the whole season
The FIA have always head their heads up their own *ss' es
they could have sorted this circus before the race
they have destroyed the entire season
Wa*kers

Nick

[dodger]

I broke my 100-400IS at OultonPark but I'm not in a bad mood!!

[felix21685]

thats so true they could have done something that would have been still fair to the bridgestone teams and let the michelins drive..aka chicane before turn 13..

not a smart move today on FIA's part since F1 isn't popular in the US..
and this surely isnt helping CBS spread F1 either..
man what a sad day for F1..
I feel really sorry for all the people who shelled out tons of cash to go see it.
i was supposed to be there to..

[felix21685]

this is what makes me really sad
"
The debacle left some fans, particularly those in Indiana who are fairly new to Formula One, saying they have no interest in attending future races.

“I’m not going to come back,” said Brian Whittle of Carmel as he chatted with a friend in the infield, ignoring the six cars going around the track.

“I can’t imagine (drivers) just quitting. For all of them to pull off and run just three teams, that’s crazy. I’ll just be an IRL and NASCAR fan from now on.”

"

source :
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

[ddelallata]

That really sucks :( As if the race at Indy wasn't already booring enough.... mose F1 drivers mentioned last year that the track was not challenging enough. Oh well. I'll stick to CART and IRL from now on.

[Incomplete Pete]

Ah well, not much of a loss, maybe they'll run it on a proper circuit next year! Bizarre sight to see though!

[3oh6]

wow, what an afternoon. never did i think i would see that. i thought foresure they would sort something out so the michelin guys could go out. i understand f1s stance though, satating that the teams have every right to have back up equipment in the rules and its their fault along with michelin that this wasn't avoided. still a sad day for formula 1 in the states. i know alot of people that make the pilgramige to indy every year for the f1 race and i am not looking forward to the emails when they get home. its not a matter of just $80-$200 that they paid for the ticket.

its the days of driving across the country, planning all year long, hotels, food, drink, etc...i know that if i decided to make the trek this year i would not have been a happy camper.

[Persian-Rice]

It was a mess all around. It wasn't that Michelin intentionally did this. They brought a set of tires which worked perfectly fine last year, and found out Saturday that due to resurfacing of the track and slightly new tire design because of the regulations the tire was not going to last more then 10 race laps.

An alternate design of the tire was sent to Indianapolis from France overnight and was tested. Unfortunately, this alternate tire would last longer, but would not last long enough. There was no time to redesign a tire structure, manufacture it, and have it shipped from France to the USA overnight and therefore a request was send to Mosley and Co (FIA) to attempt to mend the situation with a chicane that would be placed in the straight. This would slow the cars down and would reduce structural load on the joint of the belt and sidewall. The host(Indy), nine of ten teams, excluding Ferrari (as usual), agreed to this proposal. Max Mosley decided that there would be no compromise. The F1 drivers were told to park their cars by team officials, many drivers were very upset about this. If you don't know, the decision to drive isn't really up to the drivers. Due to obvious and very serious safety reasons, all Michelin runners were recommended by Michelin to not participate due to a faulty product. Minardi and Jordan/Midland F1 had also agreed not to run with the Michelin runners in their support. At the last minute, Jordan/Midland F1 decided to go against their earlier promise and compete in the race. Due to the position of Jordan and Minardi, Stoddart was forced to also go against his promise, there is no way they could let Jordan/Midland get away with that many point and Minardi with none.

This is not the first time there has been a tire issue at Indy after the resurfacing, both Nascar and IRL were forced to make drastic changes to their tires after experiencing damage and unusual wear of the tires. Firestone was able to convey this information to sister Bridgestone where a new tire was developed for this track specifically. Unfortunately, Michelin was kept out of the circle of information.

This is information I have gathered from my very reliable and informative circle of F1 buddies and communities.

I just put down about 5 grand in Montreal last week, I can't imagine what it would have been like if this had happened there.

[felix21685]

its always obvious when some huge company screws up..
you know you could say..well wouldnt you think theres someone in charge of making sure the tracks are exactly the same as they were last time..lol bet you they do now !

it was a sad day..true.. i just wish the next 2 weeks were over so i could watch A real race :)
its ok.. there was good action fri-sat..
im sorry for the guys that went..but im sure it was still better than sitting home..maybe:o

[JereMIA]

Well that one will go down as a black day in F1 history, looks like I will be booking for Montreal next year. And yes, I did stay and watch the 73 lap parade until the end. I think I will watch it on tevo tonight, just to re-live the misery and listen the announcers point of view!

Thanks again Persian, you were right on the money with your advice. The circuit was very different than what I expected, really couldn't get very close to the track and lots of fencing and obstructions. Good thing I did shoot quite a bit on Saturday, I got some decent pics of the cars on their in and out laps. Nothing too spectacular, I will post after I sort through them all.

I did have a good time and actually saw Michael in person on Saturday night. He was sitting down with a dozen or so of his team eating dinner, in a section of the steakhouse restaurant, that was located inside the Westin downtown.

BTW, I have a correction, my room was 300.00 per night. I booked everything 8 months ago, so I really lost track. (But I doubt their will be even be an F1 race at Indy, or that you are still considering it !)

[rosco1971]

everyone allways has something to say about ferrari.....give it up......why should they have agreed with the chicane....they had no problems with their tires.....what about when they had problems at the beginning of the season....they raced even though their tires were bad.....barrichello raced a whole race on bad tires and retired with i believe a few laps to go......people have to get off ferrari's back.....why should they have to agree with a change in the track to suit the other teams that had bad tires........this is all michelin's fault.....they were warmed by max mosley......do not sacrifice saftey ....make a tire that is safe.......when kimi had his shunt .......all this @#$% about ferrari is bull.....the other teams were told to race.....and slow down on turn 13.....it is not differnt when their tires get bad during a race....they have to nurse the tires until they either finnish....or retire............thats what they should have done......race until they could no longer race anymore.....even if its for the 10 laps they predicted they tires would last......all in all...it was really bad what happened.....i did not like it one bit.....but please.....do not drag ferrari into this because they did not agree with it....in fact they did not agree with it because according to the rules....if the track were to be changed...FIA would not recongnize the race as a sanctioned race and not point would be awarded....so why would they....or anyone else agree to something like that.....i think alot of people hate ferrari because all the years of domination.....heck they brought all these rules in this year to counter ferrari.....becasue that was the only way the can beat ferrari....remember the years when mclaren honda used to dominate.......did you hear ferrari crying?

[Duder]

the big problem here was that 7 teams + 2 sympathsizers agreed that due to the extraodinary circumstances of the problem they faced, an extraordinary solution was required for the benefit of the fans and the sports' reputation. FIA and ferrari failed to see the big picture and vetoed such solutions, leading to the disaster we witnessed on sunday.

[Skip Souza]

the big problem here was that 7 teams + 2 sympathsizers agreed that due to the extraodinary circumstances of the problem they faced, an extraordinary solution was required for the benefit of the fans and the sports' reputation. FIA and ferrari failed to see the big picture and vetoed such solutions, leading to the disaster we witnessed on sunday.
The big problem was that seven teams contracted with a tire manufacturer that was unable to provide them with a cometitive tire for the race. The solution of those seven teams was an attempt to blackmail the FIA into altering the track to make their tire/car combinations competitive.

Ferrari simply insisted that all teams play by the rules established long before their arrival at Indy and that no special rules be made to ameliorate the short comings of the Michelin shod teams.

[JereMIA]

I personally think that modifying the circuit was a ridiculous request. The article I read on the plane suggested that the FIA recommended three options: 1) Race with the qualifying tires and change them out if they became a safety issue, show it were a safety issue afterwards, and you were within the rules. 2) Recommend the Michelin runners to slow to an appropriate speed in the corner causing concern. 3) Change out the tires and run the race, a hearing will be called afterwards to determine the consequences.
I don't think #1 would work well which leaves option 2 and 3. Personally, I would have went for the third, I would imagine with 70% of the cars changing out tires, the punishment would not have been zero points. More importantly, the fans would have seen a race!

[Kentish]

Be clear, if Ferrari had had tyre issues like the Michelins, something would have been worked out.

Also lets not forget 2 drivers had tyre blow-outs and crashes, R Schumacher and R Zonta the day before.Lets not also forget that the teams requested a 1 tyre manufacturer season for this season but the FIA refused the idea. Lets not also forget that it was the FIA's rule change meaning only 1 tyre set per car per race weekend that really is the cause.

Persoanlly if F1 doesnt return to the Indy track then that suits me, we can have another European race on a proper track instead.

As for slating F1 over Cart etc...at least the F1 cars race in the damp/wet/rain.

[Croasdail]

You have to love this... "proper european track"..... and I am sure driven by only european drivers in european cars on european tyres.

oh and "As for slating F1 over Cart etc...at least the F1 cars race in the damp/wet/rain"

that is unless they come with the wrong equipement... unprepared to race on a high speed track. Then by all means penalize the teams that did their homework so it will be a fare race.

If you come unprepared - loose like a man - not like a small child who doesn't want to play because the other guys are better.

Oh and by the way - we do have racers and races here in North America that run under all conditions... just check the results of "le mans" - or is that not a proper track either.

[Skip Souza]

Croasdail, I believe that is the "American Le Mans" series.
You made great points.

[Croasdail]

First - let me apologize for getting sucked into this rat hole.... it is just that I would love to see more european racing here in the states.... and events like this just reinforce the american image that F1 racers are just good qualifiers... they don't actually do competitive racing - which if you really watch the sport you know that isn't true. But last weekend didn't do much to change that stereotype.

the same logic would have been to have shortened the race or reduce the speeds of the 24 hours of le mans so that the Aston-marin could compete with the corvettes in the heat for which it was not well prepared... but the A-M boys took it like men and I have all the respect in the world for that team that stuck it out.

Again sorry for the tone here.... it was just a great dissapointment - who knew they would tuck tail and run. I'm done with my rant..... back to the real subject at hand - photography

[mattym]

i think the thing that is being missed here is that the michelin tyre that was supplied suffered 11 failures up to quili on saturday, all but renault and williams iirc had trouble. If the michelin teams had raced, and had 11 high speed tyre failures at that spot, the spot where Ralf broke his back last year, it would have been irresponsible and with the culture for suing over anything it would have been very foolhardy from a safety and legal point of view. Debris in the crowd at 200+mph?! Dead or crippled racers?

Michelin where unprepared, Firestone gave Bridgestone the info they needed to make the tyre for the track, outwardly the track looked the same, but the resurfacing and cutting made it far more complex. The blame MUST lay with the FIA for preventing the race from being run. Michelin knew Friday that they had a problem and told the FIA, limiting a car to a set speed was the best the FIA could come up with, but that in itself could be more dangerous, a car flying up to 200+ has to drop to 150, a car slipstreaming behind gets caught out at that speed and its another safety car and possibly more dangerous than a dodgy tyre!

I feel very sorry for the fans, i beleive a solution could have been worked out, but in the end, political willy waving prevented it.

Get a street circuit, thats teh best way!

[Croasdail]

In case you all hadn't see this yet... just for a laugh....

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/OPINION02/306210001/1093

Cheers

[Skip Souza]

I still believe that Michelin caused the problem at the USGP by not being prepared. I also believe that the biggest problem with F1 is the FIA and I'm not particularly fond of the FIM, either. I am neither for no against Ferrari.
I found this article to be quite informative and only strenghtened my distrust of the FIA. http://www.roadandtrack.com/default.asp?section_id=21&crashnet_id=26821&Submit=See+the+Story
I would suggest all F1 enthusiasts to give it a read.

Croasdail, that was hilarious.