Legal Advice!!!??

[GAinGa]

I agreed to take pictures of 16 students and design a calendar for them to sell as a fundraiser. (contacted directly by the teacher.... I didnht know this was NOT how things with schools were handled...it was her class..FCCLA group!)

Long story short.... the principal was not involved as he apparently should have been and got a chip on his shoulder when it came time to pay in order for me to order the calendars.

After weeks and weeks of work... he refuses to pay me the agreed upon quoted price and ultimately refuses to allow the calendar to go to print unless I use (his buddy's???) local print company and tells me it should be way cheaper. (he knew I was doing all the work for free in order to advertise on the calendar) the quoted price for 8 different days of photography sessions, some no-shows and some re-shoots, plus editing and design for 100 80# paper, 28 page calendar spiral bound with centerfold, was only $1,070 even!!!

He pressures me to go with a local company, (claiming ONLY because they would accept his purchase order as payment)..which I get a quote from that EXCEEDS my print company's quote...... he wastes 3 weeks of time so that the calendars will not be received in time for Christmas Holidays anyway..... and then informs me he can get a better quote from them!!! SO... after allowing myself to be kicked around by him for a while, and meeting with him so that he can go on and on about how he was not involved from the inception of the project..... I tell him that I was hired by the teacher months ago.... a price was agreed upon, that I was sorry she did not follow procedure, but I had already spent so much time and effort on the project and met the kids parents, etc...and KNEW that they had raised $1600 already for this project..... that if he felt he could beat my print price, then GO FOR IT...but I would accept the difference between his new quote and the agreed upon price as payment for my troubles.

He agreed...and got a quote that was $498 cheaper than my qote. SO I made a new bil reflecting these changes, he "emailed" me a response to go ahead with the files to the printer........ and now that my files are at the printer, and I didnt receive a PDF to approve for printing...I called the printer. They say that the principal has now changed the specs of the calendar to a staple-bound calendar with cheaper pages (YUK! I did not want my work going into a cheap calendar!!!!) and that he has NOT even sent payment for them to be printed yet.

My husband tells me I should contact the print company, refuse them to use my files, and ditch the entire project....along with a letter to all the businesses and parents explaining that the principal had to throw his weight around and that HE IS THE CAUSE of the calendars not being printed!!!

This is a messed-up situaition.... I have learned MANY MANY lessons...but do not know how to proceed at this point!!!!

SHould I pull the plug on the entire project? School does not even get back in until January 7th........

SO MUCH FOR TRYING TO DO SOMETHING FOR FREE and for a good cause!! Surely now the parents will think that "I" have failed their kids.... which is so far from the truth. I busted my butt for them and am now fully worn-out and so "OVER" it all!!!

HELP!! :oops::mad::confused:

[FlyingPhotog]

Get A Lawyer...

[GAinGa]

Get A Lawyer...

Well... I am a member of PPA, but was really wanting some input on what others might do if in a similar situation.

I made sure the printer understood that the files were copyrighted, belonging solely to ME and that I was to pick up the product (ONLY ME!)

They know the details and issues with the principal as well.

I am leaning towards pulling my files and scrapping the entire project!

THANKS for the input, anyway!!!

[FlyingPhotog]

Well... I am a member of PPA, but was really wanting some input on what others might do if in a similar situation.

I made sure the printer understood that the files were copyrighted, belonging solely to ME and that I was to pick up the product (ONLY ME!)

They know the details and issues with the principal as well.

I am lenaing towards pulling my files and scrapping the entire project!

THANKS for the inpout, anyway!!!

Well, if you really want free advice...

You're potentially facing mass disapointment on the part of the class involved and their parents. If it were me, I'd want solid, professional legal advice on how to properly limit my exposure.

[GAinGa]

Well, if you really want free advice...

You're potentially facing mass disapointment on the part of the class involved and their parents. If it were me, I'd want solid, professional legal advice on how to properly limit my exposure.



You are right, ofcourse......
THATS my main concern, too. BAD EXPOSURE...and the kids being SO DISAPPOINTED!!!!! Like they dont have ENOUGH disappointment to deal with anyway. UGH!!!!!!!!! I will just have to plan on calling PPA.

Thanks for the input!

[MJPhotos24]

Just curious as to where anything legal is involved - is it just you wanting to scrap the whole thing and know you're safe to do so? Maybe it was the long night but don't see anything legally binding.

Principal sounds like a major PITA!

[Karl Johnston]

Legal; lawyer

Practical; us

Do this:
My husband tells me I should contact the print company, refuse them to use my files, and ditch the entire project....



Forget this:
along with a letter to all the businesses and parents explaining that the principal had to throw his weight around and that HE IS THE CAUSE of the calendars not being printed!!!

Then:
Have a cuppa tea and wait for all of this to blow ova.

In the meantime there's something to learn from this:


He pressures me to go with a local company, (claiming ONLY because they would accept his purchase order as payment)..which I get a quote from that EXCEEDS my print company's quote...... he wastes 3 weeks of time so that the calendars will not be received in time for Christmas Holidays anyway..... and then informs me he can get a better quote from them!!! SO... after allowing myself to be kicked around by him for a while, and meeting with him so that he can go on and on about how he was not involved from the inception of the project..... I tell him that I was hired by the teacher months ago.... a price was agreed upon, that I was sorry she did not follow procedure, but I had already spent so much time and effort on the project and met the kids parents, etc...and KNEW that they had raised $1600 already for this project..... that if he felt he could beat my print price, then GO FOR IT...but I would accept the difference between his new quote and the agreed upon price as payment for my troubles.

Did she have signing authority? If not then the argument is between him and her, and you should stick to your initial price. No payment after 30 days and you may be able take the case to small claims court if you really want, though for smaller amounts than $2000 is generally not worth it. An important thing to always have is a solid contract; get one made up properly and have someone show you how to interpret your needs into something simple and binding.

Though I'm not a lawyer, that's what I would figure I would do in your situation, though.

[WMS]

This is just a suggestion, Take all of the documentation you have on this little project, set up an appointment with the Superintendent of the School system and politely discuss the mater with them. It also wouldn't hurt to talk to the members of the school board. In the future I would suggest going to the Superintendent of Schools for authorization for future projects like this.

Wayne

[Nightstalker]

I've read the thread but there are points that I don't understand. Please accept my apologies if this goes on a bit - it gets there eventually I hope...

You were contracted initially by a teacher to do what? Take the photographs or produce the calendar? Was this contract agreed in writing and what were the terms and conditions attached?

You say that you were doing the job for free but then mention needing a payment of $1,070. By this I assume that these are the costs incurred in printing only and you waived all of your creative and licensing fees? What incidentally were the terms of the license you gave away for free?

The principal refuses to pay your invoice for $1070 and insists on getting the calendars printed by his own supplier. You agree to his doing this and get his agreement that he will pay you the difference between his printing cost and your initial quote - so the cost to him is the same either way? Why he agrees to this is beyond me as he is having to do lots of work himself for no cost saving.

How is his payment to you actually invoiced - I'd guess something like licensing / creative fees as you cannot invoice for printing as this is being directly contracted.

He contracts with the printers to have the calendars printed and asks you send the photos to his printer - which you do. Again what are the terms of the license that exists between you and the school? How well defined are these terms - do they for instance stipulate the maximum print size of the images, the maximum size of the print run, the type of paper and binding that will be used in the final product?

By agreeing to let the principal deal with the printing you have removed from yourself all responsibility for production. I would suggest that unless you have specific wording in the license agreement between you and the school I cannot see how you can withdraw your consent to use the images because he has changed the specification of the end product.

Of course, if you have worded the license correctly the license will only comes into effect once he has paid your fee - until he has paid you the school and hence the printer have no rights to use your images.

One final point...

You say that the school has already made $1600 from this project - is this through pre-orders? If so then if the paper weight and quality of binding were specified up front surely this forms a part of the contract between the school and it's customers...

[WMS]

Nightstalker all very good reasons to have this discussion with the Superintendent of the School system. And just to make myself very clear I am endorsing going over the principals head.

Wayne

[John the Geek]

I would just pull out of the project.

As the person contracted to do the project you have the right to oversee the quality of the product that you were contacted to build. If the principal wants to get in the way of that, let him. The students will know that, schools don't keep secrets.

The people who have already paid for this will take it out on the principal. Just send a letter to the teacher explaining that since the school will not honor it's part of the deal, you are no longer involved with the project. Wish them luck and move on.

[Karl Johnston]

Technically, at least the way it works up here, your channel of communication of commercial proposals should be through the DEA or the school board - not the staff of the school.

[books64]

If there were pre-sales/orders for the calendar, then the worst thing you could do is not inform the parents of what is going on. The parents will blame you if they don't know that it is actually the principal causing the problems. I would also suggest getting the PTA involved.

[sspellman]

Georgia Anne-

Some advice:
1) In working with businesses, schools, and govt-a purchase order is the best valid confirmation of an order.
2) Trying to integrate printing(or other 3rd party services) into your product price will often lead to lead to problems as others challenge the price.
3) You will often have just as many problems with "free" or trade projects as regular client work.

As far as proceeding from here:
1) You will get more negative impact from pulling out now than fullfilling your initial commitment
2) I would meet with the pricipal face-to-face to resolve the remaining issues, including payment of the printer.

Best of Luck in this tough situation-
Scott

[RDKirk]

Well... I am a member of PPA, but was really wanting some input on what others might do if in a similar situation.

Legal advice is a PPA benefit. Call them first, don't do anything else, don't talk to anyone else before that.

I agree with sspellman's advice for the future:

Some advice:
1) In working with businesses, schools, and govt-a purchase order is the best valid confirmation of an order.
2) Trying to integrate printing(or other 3rd party services) into your product price will often lead to lead to problems as others challenge the price.
3) You will often have just as many problems with "free" or trade projects as regular client work.

As far as proceeding from here:
1) You will get more negative impact from pulling out now than fullfilling your initial commitment
2) I would meet with the pricipal face-to-face to resolve the remaining issues, including payment of the printer.