Ceiling Bounced Speedlights for BB

[beacherz]

Wanting to get away from the existing light mode while shooting basketball, I bounced two speedlights off the ceiling. The walls weren't an option. First it was a huge gym and second, the walls were a darker gray. Couldn't get enough light onto the court. So instead, I placed both speedlights together and mounded them to a gas line that went up the wall behind and to the left of the basket. Fired at half output to keep relatively fast recycle times. Shot at 250, f/3.2, ISO 640 using 70-200 2.8. Here are the pics. Any and all CC welcome.

[Adama]

First shot looks like it's a soccer match XD

[beacherz]

First shot looks like it's a soccer match XD
You're right...same body language. She is trying to save a ball from going out-of-bounds. Thanks for looking.

[13inches]

Next time try using the two lights in different locations to reduce the shadows.

[daver22]

That really helped the lighting - I use an 85 1.8 to get BB shots, but have had differing opinions on use of a flash during a game.

[beacherz]

That really helped the lighting - I use an 85 1.8 to get BB shots, but have had differing opinions on use of a flash during a game.

A couple of AD's told me that the coaches usually don't like flash. Bouncing them off a wall or ceiling, I have had no complaints. Actually, yesterday's game had seven different shooters there and three or four didn't even have the courtesy to refrain from firing off their on camera strobes while the girls were shooting free-throws. That's an easy way to ruin it for everyone. Even the local paper uses a direct flash approx. seven feet high, just off the sideline, between the key and baseline. I don't know - seems like it might be annoying to me. I was also surprised by the number of people taking shots.

[snyderman]

I hear a whistle coming on #2! My neice plays and watching the girls HS games are a true exercise in patience with all the fouls, tieups and possession arrow to get the ball back.

Pics are pretty good! Nice job.

dave

[beacherz]

I hear a whistle coming on #2! My neice plays and watching the girls HS games are a true exercise in patience with all the fouls, tieups and possession arrow to get the ball back.

Pics are pretty good! Nice job.

dave

Thanks Dave. The girls were fired up:) and technique sometimes takes a back seat. About the shots - I'm beginning to think that more power, i.e. AB 800's or so, is the only way to go. I was hoping that that wouldn't be the case. I really like the "pop" flash provides and would love to stay with what I have.

[ChasWG]

# 2 also looks like a few soccer matches I've seen.

Is it me or my monitor, but is the WB in #2 a tad on the cool side? Is it because they are closer to the strobes and you had a WB set to be a bit warmer to account for ambient?

For those that shoot BB strobed all the time, is that a concern? I'll be shooting boys youth BB a week from Friday for the first time with two strobes and I was just wondering.

[beacherz]

# 2 also looks like a few soccer matches I've seen.

Is it me or my monitor, but is the WB in #2 a tad on the cool side? Is it because they are closer to the strobes and you had a WB set to be a bit warmer to account for ambient?

For those that shoot BB strobed all the time, is that a concern? I'll be shooting boys youth BB a week from Friday for the first time with two strobes and I was just wondering.

Yes, it is a little cool. I think it is from the reflection off the walls which were blue/grey. In another gym where I've used a similar setup, except I bounced off off-white walls since the ceiling is black, I don't get that occurring. Good luck with you shoot tomorrow.

[ChasWG]

Yes, it is a little cool. I think it is from the reflection off the walls which were blue/grey. In another gym where I've used a similar setup, except I bounced off off-white walls since the ceiling is black, I don't get that occurring. Good luck with you shoot tomorrow.

Ah, I understnd now. The gyms I shoot in are either a light yellowish or a tanish color. Dreadfull actually. But if I bounce off of them I'll WB to a warmer setting. Testing for sure. I'd love to see some simple white walls.
The game is in a week from Friday (the 8th) No one wants to play on New Years day, unless it's a bowl game, and that's all together different. ;)

[DDCSD]

Looks like you got some pretty good light out of them! Looks like there's a little bit of blur there, but there's not much you can do at half power. If you went any lower power, you'd be having trouble getting far enough over your ambient.




Next time try using the two lights in different locations to reduce the shadows.


What shadows?

[beacherz]

[quote=DDCSD;9298436]Looks like you got some pretty good light out of them! Looks like there's a little bit of blur there, but there's not much you can do at half power. If you went any lower power, you'd be having trouble getting far enough over your ambient.

Thanks Derek. I was hoping I could get away with my small units, however, I think I'll need more power to get the kind of results I want. BTW, Happy New Year!

[beacherz]

Ah, I understand now. The gyms I shoot in are either a light yellowish or a tanish color. Dreadfull actually. But if I bounce off of them I'll WB to a warmer setting. Testing for sure. I'd love to see some simple white walls.
The game is in a week from Friday (the 8th) No one wants to play on New Years day, unless it's a bowl game, and that's all together different. ;)

White walls...now there's a concept. Enjoy tomorrow's games and Happy New Year! Hope you have a great year of shooting:)

[DDCSD]

Thanks Derek. I was hoping I could get away with my small units, however, I think I'll need more power to get the kind of results I want. BTW, Happy New Year!

Yeah, that's why I went with AB's. You just don't get enough light out of the the speedlites to bounce them and get a quick enough flash duration, unless you use about 4 of them! :lol: They work great when you shoot them direct, I just don't personally like the direct flash look.

It looks like you did pretty decent though. Good enough to get some keepers.

[MT Stringer]

Yeah, that's why I went with AB's.
Me 2

[ChasWG]

OK, now I'm scared. I finally have the radio triggers and flash units, and I'm hearing they aren't going to be enough. If you don't mind me asking, what speedlites were you guys using before going to AB's? I've got a pair of fairly powerful speedlites (one has a guild # 185 and the other 175) and I was hoping to bounce them off the rear wall. Maybe I'll just have to try and see what gives. So far I've only had one camera mounted flash bounced straight up and got some nice keepers. Maybe it's the ambient lighting in the gyms I'm shooting in. Hmmmm...

[beacherz]

OK, now I'm scared. I finally have the radio triggers and flash units, and I'm hearing they aren't going to be enough. If you don't mind me asking, what speedlites were you guys using before going to AB's? I've got a pair of fairly powerful speedlites (one has a guild # 185 and the other 175) and I was hoping to bounce them off the rear wall. Maybe I'll just have to try and see what gives. So far I've only had one camera mounted flash bounced straight up and got some nice keepers. Maybe it's the ambient lighting in the gyms I'm shooting in. Hmmmm...

It really has to do with the gym's lighting and the size of the gym. Bouncing off the wall is all I can do in one, the other I can bounce off the ceiling. Both are very large gyms and I'll be in a smaller one on Tuesday and I'll compare results. Sure, I'm getting some keepers and I think for most people the results would be fine. It just has to do with how far you want to take this.

[MT Stringer]

Chas, a couple of years ago, I used 2 540EZ in one gym that had a balcony behind the basket. I mounted one on each side and experimented shooting direct with the flash aimed toward the top of the key or further. Another time I bounced off the ceiling. I was shooting at half power when bouncing and had about a 2 second recycle. Both speedlights had a Quantum Battery 1 for power.

I think you will do just fine.
Here are a couple of examples.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball%202/VGBB1-480.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball%203/3Pic-480.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball/BB1-650.jpg

The set up.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball/FlashSetup-650.jpg
Good luck.
Mike

[beacherz]

Chas, a couple of years ago, I used 2 540EZ in one gym that had a balcony behind the basket. I mounted one on each side and experimented shooting direct with the flash aimed toward the top of the key or further. Another time I bounced off the ceiling. I was shooting at half power when bouncing and had about a 2 second recycle. Both speedlights had a Quantum Battery 1 for power.

I think you will do just fine.
Here are a couple of examples.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball%202/VGBB1-480.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball%203/3Pic-480.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball/BB1-650.jpg

The set up.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/mt_stringer/Basketball/FlashSetup-650.jpg
Good luck.
Mike

Mike, what do you believe to be a minimum height to shoot directly toward the top of the key? A balcony is pretty high up. What about light stands? A couple feet above the rim? I want to make sure they won't bother the players. Thanks.

[dave kadolph]

It really has to do with the gym's lighting and the size of the gym. Bouncing off the wall is all I can do in one, the other I can bounce off the ceiling. Both are very large gyms and I'll be in a smaller one on Tuesday and I'll compare results. Sure, I'm getting some keepers and I think for most people the results would be fine. It just has to do with how far you want to take this.

After a little experimentation I've strobed off the ceiling and mounted a simple 3 x 5 bounce card to the back of my speedlights to redirect the light normally lost over the bleachers back onto the court.

[MT Stringer]

Beacherz, I don't know if I can give you an accurate answer. I believe I had the zoom set at 50mm with 1/4 power. I was trying to duplicate the David Hobby setup. This particular gym was the only one I used the speedlights in.

I wish I had a picture of the set up a photog used at a large arena style building. He had a light stand strapped against a railing up on the second level and was shooting two speedlights from each side. They were aimed downward a little which made me think it was direct flash. On each stand, one speedlight was aimed to the left and the other to the right. He told me he was just "licking" the floor with the light. He had four speedlights with 4 battery packs. Batteries must have lasted well for him because he shot all three games (fresh, jv and varsity). I didn't see him change out the batteries.

With his setup he could walk anywhere around the floor. I never got to see any of his pics so I don't know how they turned out.

Here is a link to check out.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-assignment-prep-basketball.html

Mike

[beacherz]

Thanks Mike. I get the feeling that direct flash, unless it is pretty high above the basket, would probably be distracting. Still, if I get the chance, I will try it out in the gym I feel most comfortable in and know the coaches and AD. Thanks again and when I check it out I'll post the results.