G6 vs S2IS

[Spirit]

I'm curious what your views are on this, and if the extra cost of the G6 is worth the loss of optical zoom on the S2.

[red_marine]

the g6 is a great camera and i am still amazed at how little noise it has when doing night photography. the s2 in my opinion wouldn't cut it as there is a fair bit of noise but remember you wont see most of this problem on a 4x6 print. you can also remove noise at the cost of sharpness in photoshop.

for general photography i think the s2 would probably be a better choice, the downside to the g6 was the lack of zoom but the aperature on it is still one of the best available.

for general friends/family and a bit of scenery every now and then i'd probably suggest getting the s2, it seems like a great camera, personalyl i would go with the g6 because i can't stand noise, and also with 7 megapixels you do have a greater amount to play with on the computer and also the option of croping a fair bit out of the picture

[S45_fornow...]

I'm curious what your views are on this, and if the extra cost of the G6 is worth the loss of optical zoom on the S2.

I had both the S2 & G6, and I just sold the G6 on eBay. Don't get me wrong, the G6 takes absolutely fantastic pics, but the S2 presently fills my needs better (mainly the curiosity of playing with a new model ;) ). Besides, I bought the S2 from Dell at a steal for $354 shipped.

Sorry I don't time to post samples right now, but here is a short summary of my findings between the two:

Note that the G6 was set to the S2's max resolution and superfine. ISO 50, P-mode, AWB. BTW, I've only played with S2 for several days.

Indoors, G6 has slightly better AWB. Flash on S2 is very good. Skin tones look excellent from S2 indoors and out.
Outdoors, S2 tended to slightly oversaturate colors (especially foliage), but this can be adjusted in the settings.
G6 has a little better DOF, but then again that is to my eyes.
S2 had a tendancy to blow-out highlights a little more in heavily backlit situations. This again can be compensated for with settings.
Images from both cams were equally sharp (to my eyes) with the S2 occasionally producing sharpening halos from in-camera processing. This also can be adjusted in camera settings.
12X MegaZoom with IS (set to "shoot only" mode) on S2 is great. Minimal corner softness and barrel distortion even at full zoom.
I did encounter minor CA with the S2, but that was at wide apertures. I'm sure I could close the aperture down and minimize or eliminate the CA because it only happens in situations with heavy backlighting.
Noise... I never used ISO above 100 on my G6 (I had no need to). The S2 at ISO 50 & ISO 100 is very good. People bitching about noise in the S2 sample images have obviously not had an S2 in their hands. I can see where the Auto mode might choose an ISO setting high enough to induce unwanted noise, but that is why I don't use Auto mode. I found ISO 200 to be usable, but at that point NeatImage needs to come into the scene (at least for my tastes).
Ergonomics. Oddly enough, the smaller body of the S2 fit my hand better than the G6 (I have X-large hands too) and I like using the EVF which gives the cam a very stable feel. The handgrip of the S2 felt like an extension of my hand. The button layout on the S2 is damn near perfect for me, not that the G6's was bad, but I prefer the S2's. Very easy to navigate while even holding the camera to my eye. I never used the G6's OVF, because it doesn't give 100% view of the image, wheras the S2's EVF does. EVF is a little grainy in low light, but I think its still very usable.
Notice I used the words "slightly" and "little" a lot. With the G6 set to shoot at 5MP resolution, the differences were not important to me. BTW, The G6 at full 7MP resolution using RAW really ROCKS! G6 lens is cleaner with little to no purple-fringing and CA.

With the chance of a Pro2 or even a G7 coming out within 6 months, I decided to sell my G6 while it still had a very high resale value and putter around with the S2 for awhile. I can always buy another G6 or a new cam down the road if I find major problems with the S2.


Please note that this is MY review. If you want to argue, then go somewhere else. If you want to ask questions, then fire away!

[Spirit]

$354??? When did you buy it? Would you mind posting a link? I can't find the S2 on their website, but I do see the S1 for $349 and so far the cheapest I've been able to find the S2 was $444.99.

Now someone correct me if I'm worng, but from the sounds of it though, there's not a huge difference in photo quality between the S2 and G6, unless you're planning to print large files. The G6 here (Canada), is STILL at $799 (and not a new camera), but the S2 (which JUST came out a few weeks ago) is $699, so naturally I'm wondering why. Especially since it has a 12x optical zoom (at 5mp).

I'll be buying the S2 hopefully before the end of the month as I think it's a camera better suited to my needs (I need a compact camera with a long zoom for hiking/backpacking purposes), but I'm deadly curious about the G6 as well.

[Spirit]

Well you lucky bum!! Thanks for your opinion/help on the G6/S2 btw. Is there anything bad you can say about it (S2)? How is it in low lighting (indoors, outdoor night, etc)?

[S45_fornow...]

Well you lucky bum!! Thanks for your opinion/help on the G6/S2 btw. Is there anything bad you can say about it (S2)? How is it in low lighting (indoors, outdoor night, etc)?

Low light focussing with S2 is actually pretty good, except sometimes at full zoom where it might hunt a little, but if you have the contrast for focussing it does well. The DigicII processor makes it focus a tad faster than the G6. The EVF on the S2 gains up in low light so you can still see your subject, although it is a bit grainy looking after gain up. There were times when I couldn't see a thing in the LCD on the G6 in low light. Also, the S2 has a fairly good AF illuminator light (green with squares) that is the best AF illuminator light I have seen on a Powershot to date (greater range). I haven't taken any outdoor night pics with the S2 except for a few shots of the moon 2 nites ago in M-mode and I have to say I was impressed with the images I got.

The G6 is a great camera and I highly recommend it, but if you like the long zoom then the S2 is great also. If you are the real anal-retentive type on the image quality without regard to feature set, then I have to say go for the G6, but you will be hard-pressed to find add-on lenses that give you the reach and image quality at that reach that the S2 offers.

S2 also has a great movie mode with good sound, but it does eat up memory fast (1sec = about 2MB).

One of the things I'll miss with the G6 is the F2.0/3.0 aperture which comes in handy in low light, but the IS on the S2 almost makes up for that. I say almost because you just can't beat a fast lens...

Although I got a great deal on the S2, can you tell I already miss my G6 a little, LOL?

The only thing I wish the S2 had is a proprietary Li-Ion battery (smaller than 4 AA's and easier to carry spares). The S2 uses AA's, but I have some Energizer 2500mah battteries. So far, the battetry life has been very impressive as I am still on the same first charge (I've been using the EVF and not the LCD though).

I thought I would hate the SD memory cards, but it really doesn't bother me now. Boy are those things small. Don't sneeze around one or you'll never find it.

I gotta get back to work now!

[MegaTrixel]

I thought I would hate the SD memory cards, but it really doesn't bother me now. Boy are those things small. Don't sneeze around one or you'll never find it.

Has anyone seen SD cards larger than 1gb? It seems like this would be a problem... especially if you plan to take a lot of movie clips. Maybe they come in a larger size, I just haven't seen any.

[Spirit]

The 2gb compactflash cards in Canada are around $299. I've seen the 2gb SD cards, I forget the price, but I remember putting it back the second I saw it and grabbing the 1gb card instead.

Thanks for all your help, S45. Looks like there's no major difference between the two, aside from features (and the obvious mp/zoom).

[S45_fornow...]

In light of everything I've stated, my best advice would be to go out and get some hands-on with each camera.

G6-->Image quality
S2-->Feature Set

Even though they will be drastically downsized, I'll try and post a few samples a little later.

[S45_fornow...]

Has anyone seen SD cards larger than 1gb? It seems like this would be a problem... especially if you plan to take a lot of movie clips. Maybe they come in a larger size, I just haven't seen any.

They do come in 2GB size as of a week or two ago.

FYI, the S2 can shoot video continuously up to 1GB. About 6-8 minutes (I haven't tried filling the card yet).

[S45_fornow...]

These are from the S2. I don't have G6 pics for comparison, sorry.Flower is resized
Moon (at full 12X zoom) is cropped original size
No other post-processing on either

[S45_fornow...]

again from S2

both resized only

[S45_fornow...]

2 more from S2, resized only. Please keep in mind that I just snapped off all the pics I'm posting in P-mode (except moon in M-mode) with little regard to composition or lighting....

[Spirit]

Great pics! I like the cat pic best.

Like I said in a reply above, I'm getting the S2 HOPEFULLY before this weekend (I bought and returned the S1 in May, and decided to wait for the S2), but I'm completely baffled by the cost of the G6 as I know very little about it. The G7 might be a future purchase though (if not a true SLR - I've been eyeing the rebels for a while).

:D

[S45_fornow...]

BTW, that pic of the moon was shot handheld at 12X zoom with the IS set to "shoot only" mode. I have shaky frickin' hands too if that gives you an idea of how well the IS works...

[EpHeSuS]

the g6 is a great camera and i am still amazed at how little noise it has when doing night photography. the s2 in my opinion wouldn't cut it as there is a fair bit of noise but remember you wont see most of this problem on a 4x6 print. you can also remove noise at the cost of sharpness in photoshop.



Or you can do it at no cost of sharpness in Neat Image. Photoshop is absolutely pathetic at removing noise.

On the other hand, it depends what your needs are. Personally, after owning a G3 for nearly 2 years and soon going to a 20D, I'd say get the G6 :D

[Nabil-A]

Or you can do it at no cost of sharpness in Neat Image. Photoshop is absolutely pathetic at removing noise.

You should be a little more specific, i have CS2 and its noise removal features work remarkably well, at one stage i used imagenomics noise remover, neat image, and even noise ninja, but now i tend to only use noise ninja coupled with cs2.

[EpHeSuS]

You should be a little more specific, i have CS2 and its noise removal features work remarkably well, at one stage i used imagenomics noise remover, neat image, and even noise ninja, but now i tend to only use noise ninja coupled with cs2.

Well, I've tried the Noise Removal tool in CS2 and it worked like crap for me. Didn't remove much noise and I lost a tonne of detail. Neat Image works much better and doesn't loose any detail at all.

[avdbrandt]

Hi Spirit,

Are you planning to have an external flash ??, as far as i know the S2 has no hot-shoe.

[Spirit]

The hotshoe would be nice, but the S2 is going to be my "travel" cameara used mainly for hiking/camping and road trips (which I do a lot of).

I'm still a bit baffled though. Where does the extra cost come in for the G6 (aside from the obvious mp/hotshoe)? At this point I'm definitely leaning towards the Rebel...

The S2 I'm picking up in about 4 hours (YAY!).

[S45_fornow...]

Possibly where the extra cost for G6 comes from:

7.1 MP
2" LCD
Remote is included
Hotshoe
Included proprietary battery with charger
RAW capable
On another note:

One thing that always pisses me off is the chincy memory card that they include. They say it is to keep the cost of the camera down, but when you take into consideration how many tens of thousands of memory cards that Canon (or other) buys so that they can supply one with the camera, they must get them pretty damn cheap. I would happily pay an extra $10-15 per camera to get a decent sized memery card included with it.

[Spirit]

I AGREE! If I'm going to spend $800 on a camera (well, $775 - including tax) I expect much more than a 16mb card... That irks me too.

Ah, raw, hotshoe, charger, remote... Thanks, S45. That was the answer I was looking for. Makes sense. :)

[stoneylonesome]

The S2 I'm picking up in about 4 hours (YAY!).

And we expect to see the photos in about half hour later. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Spirit]

hahaha! Dumb thing. It took me forever to figure out that the flash is NOT auto popup, and you have to lift it up to turn it on (don't forget to press the button!)

Ahhhh... new toys. LOL! Pics will come tomorrow or much later tonight (going out tonight to test it out with the roommate once he gets off work). WOOOO!

[stoneylonesome]

Look forward to seeing them, New toys are GREAT. :lol: :lol: :lol: once ya figure them out. Still learning th e 10D and it's been almost a year. :confused:

[Nabil-A]

For being Raw capable alone, the G6 was my choice hands down.

[Spirit]

Look forward to seeing them, New toys are GREAT. :lol: :lol: :lol: once ya figure them out. Still learning th e 10D and it's been almost a year. :confused:

Any minute now if I can get it to download... The software installed (zoombrowser is there) and when I plug the camera in I get that familiar window asking what I want to use to download my pictures... but nothing happens. And when I click on "aquire images", nothing happens either.

Any ideas?

[lefturn99]

The exact same question is all over the web. I am really glad I got my G6 before the S2 was announced and don't have to make the decision. I love my G6 and would hate to give up any of it's features. But the big IS zoom.............

[Spirit]

Well so far I'm pretty damn impressed with the S2. I'm going out later tonight to test it out a little more, but so far so good!

This is resized, but not cropped (and untouched). Hand held, low lighting... Should've used a tripod, but it's not too bad! Also, I took it on TV mode by accident (meant to shoot in P). Bah.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Spiriit/IMG_0118.jpg

[lefturn99]

OMG! Is that the dreaded CA on the beak?

I'm disappointed. I thought you were going to tell us that was shot from across the lake in the top of a tree. THEN I'd be impressed.

Just kidding. Pretty nice shot.

[stoneylonesome]

Not to Bad I'd say it was fantastic, very sharp, great detail, I'm really impressed.

[Roumen]

Well so far I'm pretty damn impressed with the S2. I'm going out later tonight to test it out a little more, but so far so good!

This is resized, but not cropped (and untouched). Hand held, low lighting... Should've used a tripod, but it's not too bad! Also, I took it on TV mode by accident (meant to shoot in P). Bah.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Spiriit/IMG_0118.jpg

Well, G6 has a pretty good digital zoom (4x optical and 4x digital = 16x zoom total). S2 Image stabilization is an advantage though. One example of G6 16x zoom:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/358861580/358864867wQhKck

Greetings,
Roumen

[guitarman]

$354??? When did you buy it? Would you mind posting a link? I can't find the S2 on their website, but I do see the S1 for $349 and so far the cheapest I've been able to find the S2 was $444.99.

Now someone correct me if I'm worng, but from the sounds of it though, there's not a huge difference in photo quality between the S2 and G6, unless you're planning to print large files. The G6 here (Canada), is STILL at $799 (and not a new camera), but the S2 (which JUST came out a few weeks ago) is $699, so naturally I'm wondering why. Especially since it has a 12x optical zoom (at 5mp).

I'll be buying the S2 hopefully before the end of the month as I think it's a camera better suited to my needs (I need a compact camera with a long zoom for hiking/backpacking purposes), but I'm deadly curious about the G6 as well.

Henrys camera was selling the G6 for the same price as the S2 here in Canada (Atleast in Ancaster) $699

[Spirit]

Henrys camera was selling the G6 for the same price as the S2 here in Canada (Atleast in Ancaster) $699

While I was waiting for my camera at the store, I was talking to a woman who was waiting for the salesman to come back with her G6 ($799). I forgot I mentioned it here, but she had a flyer with her, with the camera advertised for $699 at a local camera store. I was shocked to say the least to see a $100 price difference. And so suddenly! $50 is common, $100 really surprised me.

Does this mean the G7 is soon to be released? Or perhaps a different model just came out which "competes" with the G6?

Back on topic, The S2. There's either a learning curve I wasn't expecting, or my camera is faulty. Night pics. My A70 seems to take brighter, sharper night pictures at the same setting as the S2. The lcd on my A70 is nice and crisp (like a tv) when I pan or get close to something in low light, but the S2 acts like an old slow webcam. The image on the LCD is choppy and very grainy. I have to do more night testing, but is there something I'm missing?

I've tried using both in landscape mode, and manual mode making all the numbers exactly the same. The final image isn't much different, but why does the LCD on my S2 get so CHOPPY when I'm trying to frame my shot? I turned off the IS so I know that's not the problem... Is this normal? As soon as I focus on something brighter, or further away, it becomes nice and sharp again, so it has something to do with night focus...

Any ideas? (Should I start another thread? haha)

[S45_fornow...]

While I was waiting for my camera at the store, I was talking to a woman who was waiting for the salesman to come back with her G6 ($799). I forgot I mentioned it here, but she had a flyer with her, with the camera advertised for $699 at a local camera store. I was shocked to say the least to see a $100 price difference. And so suddenly! $50 is common, $100 really surprised me.

Does this mean the G7 is soon to be released? Or perhaps a different model just came out which "competes" with the G6?

Back on topic, The S2. There's either a learning curve I wasn't expecting, or my camera is faulty. Night pics. My A70 seems to take brighter, sharper night pictures at the same setting as the S2. The lcd on my A70 is nice and crisp (like a tv) when I pan or get close to something in low light, but the S2 acts like an old slow webcam. The image on the LCD is choppy and very grainy. I have to do more night testing, but is there something I'm missing?

I've tried using both in landscape mode, and manual mode making all the numbers exactly the same. The final image isn't much different, but why does the LCD on my S2 get so CHOPPY when I'm trying to frame my shot? I turned off the IS so I know that's not the problem... Is this normal? As soon as I focus on something brighter, or further away, it becomes nice and sharp again, so it has something to do with night focus...

Any ideas? (Should I start another thread? haha)

That's just the EVF/LCD gaining up so you can see in low light situations. It becomes lighter, but also grainy and choppy. I still find usable. You said your A70 is nice and crisp in low light when you get close to something... How close? I find it hard to believe since all of my previous Powershots sucked when using the LCD in dimly lit situations. If you are too close to something with the S2 then it might be time to switch into macro mode. I've found that the macro mode needs to be kicked in at greater (close)distances (i.e.; on your A70 you don't need macro mode until 20 cm, whereas on S2 you need to switch to macro mode at 30 cm). Does that make sense?

I'll experiment a little with this too when I get home tonite. Let us know if my above suggestion helped (or made it worse).

[Spirit]

So why does the lcd on the A70 remain smooth when the S2 becomes choppy and grainy? When I say close, I mean within a couple feet. Let's say under 4.

Maybe I wasn't clear? I was about 3 feet away from my cat (no zoom) and the A70 would pan fast (like a tv) and I could see a clear picture. From the same distance, in the same lighting, the S2 would become choppy and hard to see the image on the LCD. The pictures (once taken) were as you would expect for low lighting situations with no flash or tripod. I tried changing some settings (like turning everything to OFF in the menu - IS, AF assist, etc), but it didn't seem to help the strange choppy LCD problem... (and macro naturally doesn't help)

But yours does it too? This is normal for the S2? It's just that I've never seen that on my A70 so I want to make sure the S2 isn't faulty.

[Ballen Photo]

I AGREE! If I'm going to spend $800 on a camera (well, $775 - including tax) I expect much more than a 16mb card... That irks me too.

Kinda how I felt when I bought my 10D, and got NO memory card whatsoever for $1500. :shock:
-Bruce

[S45_fornow...]

Spirit,

Yes, it is completey normal for it to get grainy and choppy in low light, and definately not good for panning. I haven't actually tried it in low light at a distance of less than 8-10 feet, but at 8-10 feet or greater I find it does at least give me the ability to see my subject (static) and get a focus lock even if the LCD/EVF becomes grainy/choppy. There is definately room for improvement, though.

I always used one of the custom settings (C1 & C2) on my G6 to store a hyperfocal-distance set of settings specifically for indoor use for the 6-8 foot range. I also did the same for outdoor shooting from 10-12 feet to infinity. The G6 ain't a great low-light performer when it comes to getting focus lock.

Check out the Canon Talk forum here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1010

You may be able to glean some good tips on using the S2 as long as you don't get caught up in the "my camera is better than yours" B.S.

[Voyager13b]

Hi Spirit,

Are you planning to have an external flash ??, as far as i know the S2 has no hot-shoe.

True, the S2 does not have a shoe (irked me, too), but the DIGIC II chip works fantastic with slave units. The Canon unit has a moderate guide number, but is fairly cheap. I plan to buy one to try it first hand, but I have used multiple aftermarket slave units, and had great results. The S2 is a pretty amazing chunk of technology even without the shoe.

Voyager

[Spirit]

Spirit,

Yes, it is completey normal for it to get grainy and choppy in low light, and definately not good for panning.

Sorry if I missed the answer in this thread, but WHY does this happen? Like I said, my A70 pans beautifully in any light. The image looks dark (naturally), but there's no choppiness whatsoever. :(