Family photos? Charge?

[gregpphoto]

Ok, I've been asked (no, thats part of the problem, my mom basically offered me up w/o asking me) to shoot my cousin's sweet 16 in February. For free. And even though it's family, I'm just not cool with that. Lets consider:

I have to drive from New Jersey to Long Island (2 hours roundtrip, plus $20 in gas and tolls).
I have to shoot the sweet 16 (4-5 hours, ~1,000 images).
I have to present said images in a slideshow during the sweet 16.
I have to post process everything (2 days).
I have to put wear and tear on my gear (most important to me).

All that, and I'm not getting paid?? Family or not, thats BS. And its just the continuation of the idea that photographers dont need to get paid. Why, my aunt will be renting a hall, a DJ, and catering. But no, lets not pay the photographer, hes family, itll be his gift to us!!

No, my gift would be charging you $100 instead of my normal rate of nearly $1,000, base. But according to my mom, thats despicable of me. What do you all think?

[ian.malnis]

I agree with you. Its not despicable, would you be giving her a gift equal of $1000? Anybody who blow's a ton of cash on their daughter's 16th birthday because there's a bunch of spoiled brats on MTV who do the same thing, can afford to at the very least pay you a discounted rate. Also, this time that your spending there could be used to book other clients (that pay). That may sound heartless, but I'm with you all the way. Family can be very good at bullying.

[Gatorboy]

- Maybe you can get a ride with your mom
- Only shoot 350 images (1000 is crazy, I don't even shoot that many at a wedding)
- Decline the slideshow at the party (you aren't under contract)
- Process the best 100 images at your leisure
- The wear and tear on your gear is negligible
- Enjoy the party
- Put up online gallery and charge for prints

OR

Just decline altogether

[gregpphoto]

- Maybe you can get a ride with your mom
- Only shoot 350 images (1000 is crazy, I don't even shoot that many at a wedding)
- Decline the slideshow at the party (you aren't under contract)
- Process the best 100 images at your leisure
- The wear and tear on your gear is negligible
- Enjoy the party
- Put up online gallery and charge for prints

OR

Just decline altogether

1. Mom lives closer to where the 16 is.
2. Are you serious? In a 12 hour wedding day, you wont shoot over 1,000 images??
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed.
5. Thats dumb. My shutter is rated for 100,000 cycles. I shoot 1,000 photos, thats 1/100 of my expected life, in one day. Thats pretty significant to me.
6. Yea, enjoy a party full of 16 year old girls from Laaawwng Iiiiisland. Ok.
7. That is not a bad idea.

OR

I wish I could, but thats a little cold. All I want is some petty compensation, and I don't think thats asking too much at all.

[Gatorboy]

2. Are you serious? In a 12 hour wedding day, you wont shoot over 1,000 images??

Maybe in a 12-hour wedding, but not in a 5-hour wedding. So you expect to shoot 200-250 images an hour at a birthday party? Wow!

[gregpphoto]

Maybe in a 12-hour wedding, but not in a 5-hour wedding. So you expect to shoot 200-250 images an hour at a birthday party? Wow!

Haha, well, I haven't been to a sweet 16, but if its anything like a Bar Mitzvah, yea, close to 1,000 photos. Keep in mind, I know theyre gonna want doofy family posing together photos of everyone. Shooting 3 or 4 per pose to ensure nobody blinks, we're talking 250 photos right there, before the sweet 16 even begins!

[Red Tie Photography]

Why are you asking for advice and then calling it dumb. It sounds like you dont want to do it, so dont. If you would normally charge $1000, recommend you can do it for $500. Let your aunt know that you do not work for free. She is more than able to hire a photographer it seems, but just wants to cheap out.

You know what you need to do, nothing any of us tell you will make a difference.

[gregpphoto]

Why are you asking for advice and then calling it dumb. It sounds like you dont want to do it, so dont. If you would normally charge $1000, recommend you can do it for $500. Let your aunt know that you do not work for free. She is more than able to hire a photographer it seems, but just wants to cheap out.

You know what you need to do, nothing any of us tell you will make a difference.

Hmm. I seemed to have agreed with 3 of the 6 contended points. But you bring up the 3 I disagreed with. Seems like your a pessimist?

[Nightstalker]

My uncle is a builder and whenever he did work for us we paid and because we were family if other work came up he would put us on hold and do the other work "as we were family" and "we'd understand".

He is now a Millionaire now and we are not.

He still charges for the odd bits of work he does even though he could afford not to.

If he was doing it "on the side" I'd have expected a discount rate at least but he is running a business and so it is to be expected that he will charge the going rate. After all, he could have had another paying job that he sacrificed to do ours.

If it is your business then grow a pair and explain to your mum that it is your living and you need to cover at leat your costs and some of your time (hence offer a discount). If you are a hobby shooter / weekend warrior then I can understand why they may expect it to be free.

[gregpphoto]

If it is your business then grow a pair and explain to your mum that it is your living and you need to cover at leat your costs and some of your time (hence offer a discount). If you are a hobby shooter / weekend warrior then I can understand why they may expect it to be free.

I have explained all of that to them, but my family doesn't seem to understand it. I think my best move is to restate my case, and then politely decline if they can't meet my bare minimum $100 charge.

Thanks all.

[scorpio_e]

If you are not happy doing it then don't...It is pretty cut and dry. It's really pretty simple and you have a choice. Don't go haggling over $100.00.. It's not worth the distention that you are going to create in your family. Politely decline the offer to work for free*LOL*....

To me family is important so on a personal note, I would do it for free... Wear and tear...expenses..
It's all a personal matter. Just don't rock the boat over something small *L*


My brother in law is an accountant..It does not mean that he has to do my taxes for free nor would I expect him to set a rate for me..Him setting a rate would tick me off. Saying no..I would be fine with..

[Nightstalker]

I do know what you mean - despite my previous post, for family I usually either don't bother or do it for free - it is especially hard with Mum's who always seem to see you as "their little boy"...

However if I do agree to do it for free it is on the proviso that if some paying work comes in then they go to the back of the queue. If they won't pay I don't guarantee.

[egordon99]

Would you have gone to the party if they didn't ask you to be the photographer? Sucky situation. Any chance you'd make some money off of the prints if you put them up on a site like ExposureManager/Smugmug/Zenfolio? If so, don't give them ANY digital copies, and make them pay for ANY prints (with a nice profit built into the price of course ;) ) If the family balks at this, tell them that you are not setup to do prints outside of what EM/ZF/SM has setup, and that you think your prices are fair, and you already gave them a $1000 discount. Perhaps give them a one-time discount code to knock 5% off? Good luck!

[jhcanon]

Divorce your mother!!! :)

[gregpphoto]

Divorce your mother!!! :)

Thats the best advice so far :eek:

[dovaka]

if it was something you were going to anyway i would say just do it but dont treat it like a wedding take your time and try to have have a half way decent time but since you have to go out there just for that i would just decline if you dont want to and agree that asking for $100 will just make you that jerk that wants money but if you decline then your just busy and its not generally as big of a deal

[Sledhed]

your not going to like my advice but it's family, shoot it for free. I do not charge family and friends.

[RachelC1184]

I disagree, You have Family and then you have eh, family... (the eh, being the ones you are related to but not close to)

If they are willing to pay to rent a hall and dj, etc then they can at least pay you for your time/trip and $100 is completely reasonable... Considering it will cost you the $20 plus 2 hours of your time on top of the time spent there.

Let's say you do go ahead and shoot this for "free", the next expectation will be that you give them prints and/or the disc.

If it were for your sibling/maybe even grandparents I'd say shoot for free, a cousin... CHARGE them!

your not going to like my advice but it's family, shoot it for free. I do not charge family and friends.

[Dokk]

I disagree, You have Family and then you have eh, family... (the eh, being the ones you are related to but not close to)

If they are willing to pay to rent a hall and dj, etc then they can at least pay you for your time/trip and $100 is completely reasonable... Considering it will cost you the $20 plus 2 hours of your time on top of the time spent there.

Let's say you do go ahead and shoot this for "free", the next expectation will be that you give them prints and/or the disc.

If it were for your sibling/maybe even grandparents I'd say shoot for free, a cousin... CHARGE them!
I like your style ... and couldn't have said it better myself.

[RachelC1184]

I like your style ... and couldn't have said it better myself.


Haha, thanks!

[Sledhed]

I consider my cousins family, maybe we are just closer than most. Even if they offered to pay me, I wouldn't take it.

[neil_r]

Its your family and its your choice, personally I would do it for free as that is the way my family works, the last thing i would do is bleat on the internet and seek advice on what is pretty much a personal choice on your part.

[danameless]

If you weren't going to the event, I would just turn them down politely and tell them you already have a job on that day. It's not arguing over $100 and does seem like a lot of work/effort for free. Plus, you'll then become the "free family photographer" at all future events and you won't be able to charge then if you shoot this for free.

My brother is in a trade, and this is the reason why he does not take jobs for family or friends (only his immediate like my parents). He always says it's not worth it to charge low and lose or not make money, but people get offended if you charge a fair rate. So he avoids it altogether.

[Butch Cassidy]

Your Mom has comitted you and you are stuck. BUT explain to your Mom,you will do it for "Her" this time, but please do not do it again or She will be very embarressed. It might turn out OK. But you have to set the Boundries as tough as it is to do.

[gregpphoto]

Your Mom has comitted you and you are stuck. BUT explain to your Mom,you will do it for "Her" this time, but please do not do it again or She will be very embarressed. It might turn out OK. But you have to set the Boundries as tough as it is to do.

Thats the plan. I mean, my cousin already wrote on my facebook about it, so I'm committed!

Its funny. I've been shooting weddings since Jan 09, and my partner has been shooting for a good four years longer than I, and knowing this, she wouldnt refer me to a family friend who is getting married. It's definitely a case of her not seeing me as a professional.

[RachelC1184]

Thats the plan. I mean, my cousin already wrote on my facebook about it, so I'm committed!

Its funny. I've been shooting weddings since Jan 09, and my partner has been shooting for a good four years longer than I, and knowing this, she wouldnt refer me to a family friend who is getting married. It's definitely a case of her not seeing me as a professional.

That's sad, your mother should be your biggest fan and should be the one telling everyone she knows about you! My mom markets me and I don't even live in the same country!!! But always have business when I come to town...Haha! :)

[ohaha]

I wouldn't do it. When everything is said and done free stuff is treated like free stuff.

[Trelawney]

I think you may already stuck with this event because you didn't answer with a clear no from the start. I think I would do it for free this time, but charge for prints. However, from this event forwards make it your clear policy that everyone pays because this is your work. This way you won't hesitate to say no in future.

[Robert16]

As someone already said - stop bleating about it on the internet. You are stuck with doing it now so show some style - do it for free and do it well. This could be the start of something good for you. Make it clear the next time someone suggests you do their sweet sixteen that you charge $500 for family and $1000 for others (or more, whatever).

[spiralspirit]

I don't think its right for your family to require you to do the work you do for a living for free unless they do the same thing. If your uncle was a mechanic, would he work on your car for free? If your aunt was an interior designer, would she do your house for free? If the answer is no, then you aren't in that sort of close relationship with them.

Personally I have family members who I wouldn't hesitate to help any way I can, anything and for no money, but I also know that in general unless they couldn't afford otherwise they wouldn't put me in that spot.

Personally I would go, DONT shoot 1000 images, shoot 300, minimal batch post processing, and give them a DVD with the images on it. Say clearly that this is a one time thing, and that you aren't willing to do it for anyone all of the time, since you aren't. Make sure they understand what the going rate for professional photography is - YOUR going rate. You charge X amount for a 5 hour party, and people hire you for that money, but this one time you're being nice enough to give it for free because they didn't understand and you didn't want to disappoint them.

[lotsofphotog]

Would your mother ask your uncle, whose a plumber (work with me here), to come over to her house, make sure he buys all the parts to fix her sink out of his own pocket and spend 5 hours out of his day fixing the sink without any compensation?

I do a huge discount with family, but still, I do want to at least break even on my time unless it's a gift to someone.

[lotsofphotog]

I don't think its right for your family to require you to do the work you do for a living for free unless they do the same thing. If your uncle was a mechanic, would he work on your car for free? If your aunt was an interior designer, would she do your house for free? If the answer is no, then you aren't in that sort of close relationship with them.

Personally I have family members who I wouldn't hesitate to help any way I can, anything and for no money, but I also know that in general unless they couldn't afford otherwise they wouldn't put me in that spot.

Personally I would go, DONT shoot 1000 images, shoot 300, minimal batch post processing, and give them a DVD with the images on it. Say clearly that this is a one time thing, and that you aren't willing to do it for anyone all of the time, since you aren't. Make sure they understand what the going rate for professional photography is - YOUR going rate. You charge X amount for a 5 hour party, and people hire you for that money, but this one time you're being nice enough to give it for free because they didn't understand and you didn't want to disappoint them.

Lol, I pulled out the if your uncle was a.... example, too.

[gregpphoto]

Ok, so now that I'm roped into this, how am I shooting the sweet 16? From the photo research I just did briefly, it looks like a wedding without a groom? Is there a series of speeches, dances, etc, similar to weddings?

[mritchy]

Tell them that you had someone call you for a wedding and you are looking to expand your portfolio with a well paying job. That's what I would do. "They are family, they would understand".

[scorpio_e]

Ok, so now that I'm roped into this, how am I shooting the sweet 16? From the photo research I just did briefly, it looks like a wedding without a groom? Is there a series of speeches, dances, etc, similar to weddings?


That's pretty much it. I did one last year. The girl arrived in a limo with friends. Shots of her and her friends getting out of the limo. Entering the event. Group shots... There were no speeches at the one I attended. There was a DJ so there were dancing images too.

Good luck with event. Watermark you images... You may get some senior portrait jobs out of the event..