U-505 - Captured U Boat

[hopmedic]

Here's a pic of the U-505, German U-boat captured during WWII by an American carrier group off of Africa. It has been at home at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago for a long time, and the exhibit has been under remodel for a couple years now. On June 5 the exhibit opened, but on June 1 they had a members only preview. These pics are from the preview night. The exhibit, formerly outdoors with openings in the building to get inside the submarine, is now underground, refurbished and restored, and out of the elements to last a long time. The new exhibit is a wonderful tribute, and being a former submariner, I found it quite emotional to see.

In the picture of the sail, note the holes have been left, showing where we shot it with 20 to 50 mm rounds during the brief "battle" that resulted in the German captain ordered "abandon and scuttle the ship." From this ship, an enigma secret coding machine was captured, which helped significantly toward ending the war.

[John Trogdon]

That's cool Rich. I'm a former submariner also (SS-420 USS Tirante). Thanks for sharing.

[Ballen Photo]

WOW! What a piece of History! A friend and I were just talking about this, as I scrolled down to read that this was the very U-Boat that the "Enigma" machine was captured from. :shock: Do you happen to have more photos of this U-Boat?
-Bruce

[CyberDyneSystems]

Wow,. I had no idea this peice of history was around.. much less in a museum for the public!

Cool shots...

So.. they took it all the way to Chicago? :shock:

[insomnia]

So.. they took it all the way to Chicago? :shock:


Yes, it has been there for many years. You can even walk through it and check out the inside, very interesting piece of history. Can't wait to see it now after the restoration.

[Mobius]

As i haven't been to that museum in quite some time, could you tell me something.

The room that that u-boat is in, is it supposed to be a recreated subpen? I can't really tell but it looks like it.

Great pictures btw.

[Moppie]

an enigma secret coding machine was captured, which helped significantly toward ending the war.

LOL!
It was the machine captured by the British which helped end the war ;)



Great shots of a piece of history though, mussems are not great places for photography.

[Jackal]

I went to chicago a few months ago and I visited this museum. I REALLY wanted to see this Uboat but it was tucked away when I went to the museum. I was sad. :(

Then I stood in awe of the Ju-87 Stuka hanging from the main cieling. *drool*

[Penance]

Nice pics.
Afraid Moppie is right, the british captured the first enigma machine in 1941 when the british navy captured the ship Kreb, this was pivotal in deciphering german code and hence a great aid in starting the end of the war.
U-505 was captured in 1944, 2 days before D-day, and as such didnt aid the end of the war.

[Muzz]

:)

Rule Britannia :D

[hopmedic]

Actually, there were more than one enigma machines captured, and each helped. The Germans changed their codes, and even introduced more complex enigma coding as the war went on. Here is a quote from MSI Chicago's website: http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/exhibit/b_artifacts/
The U-505 Submarine exhibit contains nearly 200 artifacts that tell the story of the U-505. Here is a sample of what you will see as you learn of this vessel’s compelling history and critical contribution to the Allied effort during World War II.
M4 Enigma Machine

This is one of two M4 Enigma machines taken from the U-505. After the capture, the Enigma machines and the 900 pounds of codebooks and publications removed from the sub were rushed to U.S. Naval Intelligence in Washington, D.C. to help the Allied code breaking effort. The ingenuity of Allied code breakers, combined with German blunders, made it possible for the Allies to read most messages to and from U-boats from November 1943 until the end of the war.

Something I did not know was that when we captured the crew of the U-505, we violated the Geneva convention... We kept the crew separate from the other POWs we had, and we intercepted every piece of mail that they intended to send. POWs are allowed by Geneva convention to contact their relatives to let them know that they are alive and captive, but we did not allow this because it was imperative that we keep the capture of U-505 secret since discovery of its capture would mean that the Germans would again change the codes for the enigma. http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/history/capture/06_prisoners/index.html

U-505 was moved to Chicago in 1954, after Captain Gallery, credited with the capture of the sub and a Chicago native, raised the support required to save the sub from being used as a target and sunk. He wanted to see the sub in Chicago, and the MSI had been looking for a submarine for exhibit. It came through the Great Lakes, from the east coast, to Lake Michigan, and was moved across Lake Shore Drive in a massive effort to create this wonderful exhibit. It sat outside in the Chicago weather for some fifty years, and finally the plan was hatched to move the submarine inside, and restore it, so that it could last generations. During the restoration there was significant damage discovered that had been caused by the harsh weather of Chicago. It was an honor for me to be able to touch it inside and out.

For those interested, I served aboard USS Sturgeon (SSN-637) from 1988 to 1990 as a machinist mate / nuclear power plant operator. Also, yes, I do have more pics, of interior, exterior, as well as some of the artifacts on exhibit. I don't have time right now to post them (would have to shrink them down to the 100k limit), but can do so in the next day or so if that's what people want.

Thanks for your interest - I've been waiting for a couple years for this exhibit to reopen, and imagine how delighted I was when I received an invitation for a members only preview, since coincidentally my family joined the museum just a couple months ago!

[Penance]

This is one of two M4 Enigma machines taken from the U-505. After the capture, the Enigma machines and the 900 pounds of codebooks and publications removed from the sub were rushed to U.S. Naval Intelligence in Washington, D.C. to help the Allied code breaking effort. The ingenuity of Allied code breakers, combined with German blunders, made it possible for the Allies to read most messages to and from U-boats from November 1943 until the end of the war.

Not sure how relevant that is, as U-505 was captured in '44. So it seems it was the previous British capture of an enigma machine that helped ;)

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-505.htm

[PhilHannah]

Not sure how relevant that is, as U-505 was captured in '44. So it seems it was the previous British capture of an enigma machine that helped ;)

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-505.htm

Oh no, it was the American Capture, they made a film about it, so it must be true!:rolleyes:

On a serious note, great pix!

[kbreit]

I am such a huge fan of the Museum of Science and Industry. It's my favorite, period. It's been years since I've been there though. Seeing these pictures is making me think I need to go back.

[hopmedic]

Not sure how relevant that is, as U-505 was captured in '44. So it seems it was the previous British capture of an enigma machine that helped ;)

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-505.htm


from: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/map.html
U-505
Only U-boat captured in action during World War II and the first enemy warship boarded and captured by the U.S. Navy since the War of 1812. The captured Enigma encryption machine and accompanying documentation in June 1944 greatly facilitated subsequent Allied decryption efforts for the remainder of the war. (For more on the breaking of the Enigma, see Decoding **** Secrets (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/decoding/).)

[Penance]

Calm down, as i pointed out, the British captured the first 'Enigma Machine' in '41. I was not talking about the Ubout capture but the machine.
Hence my comment about its relevance, as we captured it 3 years before the machine found on U-505

[Belmondo]

Not sure how relevant that is, as U-505 was captured in '44. So it seems it was the previous British capture of an enigma machine that helped ;)

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-505.htm


They were actually both relevant. The Germans finally figured out that the British were in posession of a machine, so they re-designed it and made it more complex. The U-505 was carrying the newer version.

[hopmedic]

They were actually both relevant. The Germans finally figured out that the British were in posession of a machine, so they re-designed it and made it more complex. The U-505 was carrying the newer version.

This was my point - that the capture of U-505 should not be minimized. Only trying to back up what I stated with documentation - no ruffled feathers.

[Penance]

Appologies, i realise your point now.
Unfortunatly some of our feathers have been ruffled by the film.

[hopmedic]

Appologies, i realise your point now.
Unfortunatly some of our feathers have been ruffled by the film.

Well, unfortunately (or fortunately in this case perhaps), I don't know what film you're referring to. Being a former submariner, I am greatly interested in this and other exhibits like it. Sorry about any misunderstanding.

[Penance]

No problems, I understand your interest, didnt mean to offend.

The (unfortunate) film was U-571
One Brits opinion of the film is here -
http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk/u571%20lies%20damm%20lies.htm

Anyway, yours are great pics, keep 'em coming:)

[MazerRakhm]

Nice!

Glad to see it's back on exhibit again! I was relieved when they decided to move it underground to a temperature controlled environment. For years it was sitting outside open to the elements, and it would be a shame to have Chicago's weather do irreparable damage to it.

[insomnia]

Appologies, i realise your point now.
Unfortunatly some of our feathers have been ruffled by the film.


Sir, it's not just you guys, it's offensive to all history buffs. It's disgusting what Hollywood does to war stories. Another example is the movie "Pearl Harbor", I had the displeasure of seeing about a half hour of it and it made me sick.

[PhotosGuy]

Interesting shots, Rich! I remember seeing it in Lake Michigan when they were bringing it in in the '50s. Took a picture with my avatar & the sub looked about this big! [.] ;-)

[Medic1]

NIce shots....interesting display, I would love to visit that.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sir, it's not just you guys, it's offensive to all history buffs. It's disgusting what Hollywood does to war stories. Another example is the movie "Pearl Harbor", I had the displeasure of seeing about a half hour of it and it made me sick.

It is terrible how history gets ruined in the name of movie making...


For so many this could be there only means of acces for history.. (well at least the only access they chose to use) and thus I see generations of minds being misinformed with such psuedo history.

Some recent attrocities include Mel Gibsons farce, "Patriot" .... :rolleyes:

...and the worst offense I can recall was "Master and Commander" .... this was not actually based on a true story.. but a peice of fiction.. (the book, "Far Side of the World" by Patrick O'Brien) ...however the premise in the book was based on very accurate understanding of naval history...

In the movie however they tossed that accurate history aside ... an in so doing they made the entire premise of the movie's plot totally laughable to anyone who understood the naval history. :lol:

[Belmondo]

Star power, artistic license, and the bottom line always trump historical accuracy. It's true when Russel Crowe makes a movie, and was never more true than when John Wayne was saving the world on the Sands of Iwo Jim or at the Alamo.

Nobody should ever go to a cinematic presentation of major events in history with any expectations of getting the true story. Wars and other social upheavals generally don't lend themselves well to two-hour screenplays.

Read a book.

[Ballen Photo]

Star power, artistic license, and the bottom line always trump historical accuracy. It's true when Russel Crowe makes a movie, and was never more true than when John Wayne was saving the world on the Sands of Iwo Jim or at the Alamo.

Nobody should ever go to a cinematic presentation of major events in history with any expectations of getting the true story. Wars and other social upheavals generally don't lend themselves well to two-hour screenplays.

I think there is a one word description for movies that portray supposed historical events inaccurately. That word is "Propaganda".
-Bruce

[CyberDyneSystems]

It's true Tom..
The thing that irked me so much about Master and Commander wasn't the innacuracies themselves,. or the motivation for the change etc...

It was simply that the resulting plot became so far removed from the reality of the time.. that there was no conflict left.


P.S. sorry about the hijakhttp://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2hdzu/pics/hijacked.gif

[Penance]

It's true Tom..
The thing that irked me so much about Master and Commander wasn't the innacuracies themselves,. or the motivation for the change etc...

It was simply that the resulting plot became so far removed from the reality of the time.. that there was no conflict left.


P.S. sorry about the hijak

Fully agree, it became a farse.
I for one feel it is important to keep the history of any conflict (my personal interest is WW2) as correct as we can. It is also important to have access to the history for other generations.

[Cadwell]

from: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/map.html

U-505
Only U-boat captured in action during World War II



Not true, I am afraid. U-110 was captured by the British warship HMS Bulldog in 1941. An Enigma machine was recovered from this submarine as well.

http://uboat.net/boats/u110.htm

Also... U-570 captured by Britain on 27 Aug, 1941 in the North Atlantic http://uboat.net/boats/u570.htm

[hopmedic]

Not true, I am afraid. U-110 was captured by the British warship HMS Bulldog in 1941. An Enigma machine was recovered from this submarine as well.

http://uboat.net/boats/u110.htm

Also... U-570 captured by Britain on 27 Aug, 1941 in the North Atlantic http://uboat.net/boats/u570.htm

Up until now I'd always been under the impression that U-505 was the only one, but since posting have learned otherwise. Thanks.

[BDM]

No problems, I understand your interest, didnt mean to offend.

The (unfortunate) film was U-571
One Brits opinion of the film is here -
http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk/u571%20lies%20damm%20lies.htm

Anyway, yours are great pics, keep 'em coming:)
It is interesting that U-571 was not shown to have been seized intact. As I recall, the film ended with it sinking. And so, I don't know whether the whole idea of "U 571" was fact or fiction.

I also seem to recall that at the end of the film there was mention that about three enigma machines were captured during the war, two by the British and one by the Americans. Although the machines were useful, the code books captured at various times were as important if not more so to the code crackers.

[hopmedic]

I also seem to recall that at the end of the film there was mention that about three enigma machines were captured during the war, two by the British and one by the Americans. Although the machines were useful, the code books captured at various times were as important if not more so to the code crackers.

There were two enigma machines captured from the U-505, along with about 900 pounds of other code books, etc. The books had lead-lined covers, so that they could be thrown into the ocean and sink from either ship or plane, should they be at risk of being captured.