20D OWNERS - WHY "UPGRADE"?

[Steve Parr]

This is probably a loaded question around these parts, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway...

I've got a 300D and a few lenses.

Lately, I've been thinking about saving my Benjamins and getting a 20D. It seems like a real popular model, and I figure there's got to be good reason for that.

Then I got to thinking: I like my camera. It's doing what I need it to do, and I've been very pleased with the results I've obtained, as have my (very) few clients. The camera is simple to use, which is a plus (hey, New York public school system, here).

So, what I would like to know is this: What would be the logic in upgrading when I'm quite happy with what I've got? I'm not looking to be talked into bailing on the 300D, just wondering what some of you 20D owners believe are some of the finer attributes of your camera.

Thanks...

Steve

[liza]

- Better build quality (not plastic)
- Feels more substantial (I can't explain this. You just need to hold one to know what I mean.)
-5 fps

But, if you like your camera and are pleased with its performance, why upgrade? I guess it just depends on what you're shooting. I use my camera primarily to shoot high school sports and need the extra speed. Don't let all the hype about the 20D make you feel like you have to buy another camera. It's really the lens that makes the greatest difference anyhow. Save your money and buy good glass. :)

[willg]

get a 70-200 instead

[Skip Souza]

From your own description of your situation it is wants versus needs. Check Abraham Maslow's Hierachy of Needs
Then get the 20D it is awesome. :-)

[Nolz]

Awesome pictures at higher iso was a big factor then there is the build quality....just the way it feels in my hands, my 300D would creak occasionally depending on how I was shooting. The 20D is smaller and sleeker, the 300D now seems HUGE and its size was somethig I felt could be changed even before I held a 20D. Start up time - always ready to shoot!

oh....

its black :)

[griff2]

The problem with digital cameras, like computers: there's always the next generation of latest and greatest. If you're happy with the 300D, save your money to get some good glass and practice your photography skills- that's what I'm doing.

[tim]

Liza's list are about the worst reasons to upgrade, IMHO. The reasons I upgraded were:
- high iso performance
- operation speed (reviewing pics, changing settings)
- can take more shots in a row without filling the buffer. This is different from 5fps, which not many people use much

Those 3 are the big winners for me, and i'm very, very happy I upgraded from the rebel to the 20D.

[cecilc]

Then I got to thinking: I like my camera. It's doing what I need it to do, and I've been very pleased with the results I've obtained, as have my (very) few clients. The camera is simple to use, which is a plus (hey, New York public school system, here).

It actually seems like you've answered your own concerns ......

Now, having said that, the high ISO performance of the 20D would be the only reason to upgrade. The extraordinarily clean high ISO images of the 20D proved to me that it was worth the camera - and I came from a 10D.

But if you're happy with your camera (and it sounds as though you are), then I'd save the money for some glass .....

[kram]

The need to upgrade would also be different if you have the hacked rebel or the regular firmware.

[Pelao]

Check out the controls of the camera too. If you are advancing in your photography, you may fin that the 20S allows you to make changes to settings fast, and in a more intuitive way.

[malla1962]

This is probably a loaded question around these parts, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway...

I've got a 300D and a few lenses.

Lately, I've been thinking about saving my Benjamins and getting a 20D. It seems like a real popular model, and I figure there's got to be good reason for that.

Then I got to thinking: I like my camera. It's doing what I need it to do, and I've been very pleased with the results I've obtained, as have my (very) few clients. The camera is simple to use, which is a plus (hey, New York public school system, here).

So, what I would like to know is this: What would be the logic in upgrading when I'm quite happy with what I've got? I'm not looking to be talked into bailing on the 300D, just wondering what some of you 20D owners believe are some of the finer attributes of your camera.

Thanks...

Steve
i had a 300d and loved it.till i used it for a airshow.when i let it go to sleap it seems an age for it to wake up(20d instant).i can shoot at iso 400-800 with no problem with the 20d also the buffer empties realy quick.

[Tdragone]

I just got mine yesterday; upgrading from a digireb to the 20D.


Here are my initial impressions.

The 300D has a fairly smooth rubberized grip; when doing anything it tended to get slippery; the 20D has a textured rubberized grip that is a LOT easier to hold onto.

The ability to go into manual mode and use the rolling wheel on the top like the 300d for aperture and the big wheel on the back for shutter speed means I can change settings on the fly in manual mode without moving my camera away from my eye.

Like Tim said; I took more good pictures of my fish tank last night (Fast swimming saltwater fish) than I ever have; I filled up a 256 card while holding down the shutter; which brings us to the next point (or two):

The AI focusing is incredible. After changing from the new and improved 9 spot autofocusing to center spot; I was able to keep focus lock on an angel throughout my entire tank as long as he was in the viewfinder. I could never do that with my 300D.

More fps = more of a chance in getting that 'moment' like a ball coming off a bat; or the slide into second base....or whatever action you shoot.

I can't wait to go to the Padre game tonight and see how the new AI focus works for a sporting event; but if it's anything like what I experienced tracking a fish; woo hoo!

For me; I am interested in sports photography; and after playing with a 20D at 2 stores just tracking things like little kids moving around in poorly lit stores; I was convinced it would be better.

And in my opinion; it is!

-Tom D.

[blue_max]

It actually seems like you've answered your own concerns ......

Now, having said that, the high ISO performance of the 20D would be the only reason to upgrade. The extraordinarily clean high ISO images of the 20D proved to me that it was worth the camera - and I came from a 10D.

But if you're happy with your camera (and it sounds as though you are), then I'd save the money for some glass .....

Or you could go for fast primes to keep the quality and then take them with you to the next body. The replacement for the 20d will be even better of course, but you can't replace wide aperture with high iso (for effect anyway).

Graham

[David1943]

If you want a 20D and can afford it, then why not treat yourself? I'm really happy with my 300D but probably will upgrade to a 20D one day, not because I can logically justify changing but because I realise we only tread life's highway once and it's good to play with nice toys.

Do also bear in mind though that technology is advancing rapidly and the 20D will soon become one of yesterday's cameras.

Also, if you only want faster start up time, a smaller body and 8mp's, have you considered a 350D? I feel it would be too small for my hands but people rave about it on another forum.

Happy snapping, David :)

[DavidEB]

If you're happy with your current camera, then why worry about it? I agree with Cecil and Graham - buy lenses. If you're running up against the limitations of your camera and see that features of the 20D will help you in some way that is meaningful to you, then upgrade.

I upgraded and am pleased. Low light performance, focus accuracy, AI servo, shooting speed and metal body were useful to me.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Speed ....

Speed speeed speeed.....

Faster AF, faster (and bigger) buffer, . faster frames per second... faster controls.. faster shutter speeds because of faster available (read usable) ISO settings :mrgreen:

If speed is not important, than are not a lot of other compelling reasons to upgrade.

[Chazs]

My DReb was okay for awhile. Adding the Wasia hack made some significant improvements and gave me some more room to grow with digital. Eventually I felt I could do more than the camera and kack offered (the hack only wetted my appetite for more custom features and usability). The 20D was the next logical progression. Here's an analogy...

If you liked high school, why move on? It might just be time to graduate to a new camera because you can. ;)

[RichardtheSane]

I did even less of an upgrade, I went 10D -> 20D
So that throws the build quality and substantial feel out the window.
And I rarely use 5fps.

I upgraded because of
- Drastically improved CF write times
- Improved AF, including cross type centre point on fast lenses
- Improves high ISO performance
- Improves wake, and operating times
- latest gadget value

[blue_max]

Speed ....

Speed speeed speeed.....

Faster AF, faster (and bigger) buffer, . faster frames per second... faster controls.. faster shutter speeds because of faster available (read usable) ISO settings :mrgreen:

If speed is not important, than are not a lot of other compelling reasons to upgrade.

Those things are relative. The latest body will make the previous look very slow. With bodies coming around quicker than you can shake a stick at, why try to keep up with something that is ever increasing. Lens speed will probably take a little longer.

Graham

[oloughlinc]

I just switched from the 300D to the 20D a month ago, and I have to agree that the main pluses are speed and the abilty to get better high ISO pictures.

[Camo 757]

go to vegas...

I had the XT for a 29 days and on the last day to return it I opted for the 20D. I liked the feel, speed, build quality, and its ease of use. It obviously has many functions that I am still learning to use properly and quite frankly I enjoy knowing that I have the latest and greatest (this week)

[AjP]

what to compare here, it why 300D-350D is consumer cams and 20D is semi-pro. I love my 20D for tons of different things:
High ISO
8.2 Mp
love conrols
love build quality

bottom line, when I hold it in my hand, it feels like real camera and inspire me to take best pics I can :)

go to phot store, hold it in your hands and you will never want your 300D again :lol:

[Sketcher]

You've asked for the perspectives those who've upgraded to a 20D. I think there is more perspective worth considering though. You elude to it in your post that you're happy with what you have. So, I venture to propose something that is a little unpopular in the frenzied 'new camera' obsession. Enjoy what you have, until YOU know that you need more or until a new camera comes out that erases your doubt all on its own.

I'm speaking from the perspective of owning a 10D.

I am an obsessive hobbyist who nearly always has his camera on hand (and who is comfortable speaking in the third person) and I take pictures of everything from flowers to cars to portraits to planes to landscapes and rain. I'm not good at any of it but I do enjoy photography very much and I would be lost without my camera.

For me:

I want higher FPS and a larger buffer but I don't need it (very often).
I want higher ISO usability but it won't revolutionize my photography.
I want higher Megapixels but I'm hardly pushing the ones I have.
I want faster power on and image review but simply staying at a Holiday Inn Express does not an action photographer of me make.

Add it all up and that whole lotta want almost becomes a need all on its own. All of the above would improve my user experience and no doubt that some of my images (maybe even quite a few) would benefit from the slight advance in technology. However, I personally would benefit more from improving my lens collection (or buying my wife the new countertops she'd like, the kids some clothes for summer, food on the table etc.) than moving from a 10D to a 20D.

Lenses however, even if obtained do not resolve the desire for a bigger/better/faster camera. They might be the smarter purchase or the more worthwhile investment; but the new camera will still taunt you from the pages of internet reviews and call out to you from the postings of other new camera owners. You will not escape, no matter how responsible you are.

I've repeatedly rationalized all of the reasons why I need to upgrade and it almost always comes down to one thing. What I really want is a 1-Series. So I bide my time and learn more about photography and my 10D, knowing that if I hold off buying a 20D I might actually save up enough to buy that new 1-Series. Perhaps by then I'll have learned my 10D well enough that I no longer question if this camera or that one is worth the upgrade and I'll really know what it is that is worth my money. Next year or perhaps the year after when the early adopters are scrambling for the pre-order lists I won't be lamenting a 20D purchase. Not that a 20D purchase is anything to be sorrowful over. But, we're talking about owning a 1-Series some day (hopefully some day sooner rather than later).

You might say "if a 20D is only a want, how does a 1-Series quantify as a need!?". Well, that's the berries now isn't it? Everyone has their own brand of obsession and there is a point where one persons logic is anothers ' foolery.

Specs will only get you so far, and then it's all about the heart beat. What you're hearing from most of the people in the forum is that they appreciate the higher specs for one reason or another. What's important is what those specs mean to you; how you will or will not use them and whether the functionality per $$$ is worth your expenditure now. Only you can answer that. There's always someone who can tell you it's worth it to spend more money.

One thing is for sure, you already have a fine camera. Those who upgraded to a 20D likely won't have the change to jump on the next release or be buying a 1-Series any time soon. You have the unique opportunity right now; to continue enjoying your fine camera and look forward to getting your hands on next years' rage, perhaps a used 1-Series this year or who knows. Perhaps next year will not bring just an incremental advance in technology but a really new whiz-bang feature that's to die for. Or Maybe you'll find solace in the almost always wise decision to expand your lens collection.

For me, my 10D will carry me until I'm able to consider a new 1-Series.

Good luck!

[Steve Parr]

Well gang, as expected, you've been most helpful.

I think the biggest benefit to me, since I shoot mainly in low light, would be the higher ISO availability. Low light shots I've seen from the 20D seem to have a bit less visible noise than from the 300D.

For the time being, I think I'm going to hang with what I have. As I've said, I'm quite happy with the results I've gotten thus far (especially after going to 1.8 lenses), and my occasional customers seem pleased, as well.

I do appreciate all of the input, however. I don't know that my "level" (for lack of a better word) of shooting would warrant a 1 series, but the 20D is certainly something I would look at in the future. If Canon opts to replace it, and the prices come down, well, all the better...

Steve

[drisley]

There is NO reason to upgrade, unless you need the improved features.
The main reason I upgraded was because I needed AI Servo mode, something which was not available on the 300D (except in sport mode).

[condyk]

YSo, I venture to propose something that is a little unpopular in the frenzied 'new camera' obsession. Enjoy what you have, until YOU know that you need more or until a new camera comes out that erases your doubt all on its own.


Jeff

Nice post ... my feelings exactly. Since deciding to learn through experimenting with mainly full manual operation and even manual focus, rather than rely on the luck of the green box or the P setting, it is plain that I am the real weak point in my system. Luckily, I don't need to produce many keepers 'til the end of this year and my next overseas trip :lol: so I can play around.

The 300D is a great DSLR and many of us I am sure would benefit from an apprentiship with this kind of camera and a better lens rather than leap straight onto the latest and greatest.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Those things are relative. The latest body will make the previous look very slow. With bodies coming around quicker than you can shake a stick at, why try to keep up with something that is ever increasing. Lens speed will probably take a little longer.

Graham

Because my 10D was to slow to be functional in some cases...
So it had to go ... the 20D keeps up with my 1D mKii just fine.. but more importantly .. it can keep up with me :)

Anyway.. this was the reason I upgraded.. I never said it would be a good enough reason for any one else ;)

[Andy_T]

Now, you might also take a look at those '30D' threads that keep appearing around here recently ... If a new camera might come out early next year then it might be a good idea to work a bit longer and save your nickles ...

BTW, Sketcher ... you are evil :twisted:
Bringing up the 1D here as another alternative.

Best regards,
Andy

[Medic1]

For me the switch from the 300D to the 20D was based mainly on buffer size/speed and the ability to have full time true AI servo selectable....

[tacos3]

I shoot a lot of indoor concerts and the low noise/high ISO performance of the Digic2 chipset is very good. I used to shoot ISO 1600 on a 300d and the comparison is very significant. I don't noise correct many of my shots in post processing when shooting with a 20d.

Faster frame rate, 6Mb/sec CF write speed, instant power on and custom functions are nice benefits too.

I still find myself really trying to justify the "investment" of buying a mark II. They are pieces of art....built like a tank....

Darren

[Hellashot]

This is probably a loaded question around these parts, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway...

I've got a 300D and a few lenses.

Lately, I've been thinking about saving my Benjamins and getting a 20D. It seems like a real popular model, and I figure there's got to be good reason for that.

Then I got to thinking: I like my camera. It's doing what I need it to do, and I've been very pleased with the results I've obtained, as have my (very) few clients. The camera is simple to use, which is a plus (hey, New York public school system, here).

So, what I would like to know is this: What would be the logic in upgrading when I'm quite happy with what I've got? I'm not looking to be talked into bailing on the 300D, just wondering what some of you 20D owners believe are some of the finer attributes of your camera.
Thanks...
Steve

Sounds like you're fine for now. Wait for the 20D replacement like I am.

[Sketcher]

BTW, Sketcher ... you are evil :twisted:
Bringing up the 1D here as another alternative.
Heh heh, I did elude that it was my particular obsession ;). Whether it's a 1D, 20D-replacement or other the whole point of my gist is that unless one is hitting the hard stops (regularly missing shots due to gear performance as opposed to skill set) with your current camera than IMO it's best to save pennies for the next generation of camera and enjoy your gear in the interim. That certainly takes the fun out of buying something right now, but I try to leverage time and money to my advantage. I prefer to not make incremental purchases at large expense when my current gear does most of what I need it to do.

Jeff

Nice post ... my feelings exactly. Since deciding to learn through experimenting with mainly full manual operation and even manual focusThx condyk,
Three months after getting my 10D I realized I was no better off having the DSLR (as far as photographic skill goes) than if I'd bought a digicam. That's because I rarely strayed from the green box or relied too heavily on the program modes. I admit that I didn't learn how to use the program modes effectively but I also realized that the camera is not always correct in it's advanced algorithim way of thinking; and it's not supposed to be.

I committed to shooting MANUAL only (w/the exception of using the range of White-Balance presets) and immediately noticed that I was achieving more "keepers". Colors and image quality improved. A noticeable side benefit of forcing myself to use Manual mode is that I also consider composition and scene more attentively than I used to. Now I actually know a little bit about how to read a histogram and have a beginning understanding of dynamic range. Now, it's only when I don't have time to check settings and test a shot or two do I dump into auto modes.

I still pretty much suck at photography, but now I know why I do ;).

[taybone]

I still pretty much suck at photography, but now I know why I do ;).

That brings up an important point: photography, in my eyes at least, is not about perfection or skill, but instead is a hobby that i really really enjoy.

If buying a 20d has the potential to further your enjoyment of this art, then go for it.

My current 300d is slowly starting to limit me. I find that i could really use the speed and extra goodies of the 20d. I think I'll wait for it's replacement, though (no, not the 5d).

Thats just my 2cents.

[davidfig]

Keep your 300D and save you duckets for a full frame camera.

[davidfig]

That brings up an important point: photography, in my eyes at least, is not about perfection or skill, but instead is a hobby that i really really enjoy.

If buying a 20d has the potential to further your enjoyment of this art, then go for it.

My current 300d is slowly starting to limit me. I find that i could really use the speed and extra goodies of the 20d. I think I'll wait for it's replacement, though (no, not the 5d).

Thats just my 2cents.

Good advice. Don't upgrade one step at a time.

[MadMesh]

ok

[VividRyan]

one word... FAST!!! I wasted so much time waiting for my 300d to play catch up.

[fstop11.net]

U'l know its a great choice once you do. 20D opens doors to better photography!

[EOSAddict]

I have yet to move up but my biggest frustration with my 300D is the startup speed - can't lis tthe number of shots I have missed because it has gone to sleep and taken 3 seconds to wake up. THat and the handling of the 20D remindse me of my old EOS 100 sat in the cupboard gathering dust!

[Andy_T]

Steve,

so which goodies did you get in the meantime?
I'd reckon that something uhh... 70-200/2.8ish would fit nicely into your camera bag as well ...

Best regards,
Andy

[Phil V]

For my needs, I shoot weddings (fun & income) some motorsports (purely for fun):
motorsport
The ability to set Servo AF.
Faster focussing
Faster FPS
Longer burst rate (statistical gain - but I personally rarely shoot more than 3 shots in a row)

everything else:
more accurate AF
more AF sensors (esp cross type)

The 350d would have been a possibility for me, but I'd promised myself the 10d replacement if it was a big enough improvement on the 10d (for less money) - It was.

[Qweevox]

I think they are both great cameras. With that said check out this members photos...she shoots with a G5! In my opinion photography is about the art, not the equipment. I agree with the person who said practice and learn. If what you have works, be happy you have what you need!

I know she won't mind me posting the link to her photo gallery:http://flickr.com/photos/imagesbyrenate/ Remember she is shooting with a G5!

[guitarman]

I have yet to move up but my biggest frustration with my 300D is the startup speed - can't lis tthe number of shots I have missed because it has gone to sleep and taken 3 seconds to wake up. THat and the handling of the 20D remindse me of my old EOS 100 sat in the cupboard gathering dust!

I hear you. There are prosumer digicams with faster startup speed now.

[grego]

For my needs, I shoot weddings (fun & income) some motorsports (purely for fun):
motorsport
The ability to set Servo AF.
Faster focussing
Faster FPS
Longer burst rate (statistical gain - but I personally rarely shoot more than 3 shots in a row)

everything else:
more accurate AF
more AF sensors (esp cross type)

The 350d would have been a possibility for me, but I'd promised myself the 10d replacement if it was a big enough improvement on the 10d (for less money) - It was.

Bigger buffer, which is good when shooting things like sports and weddings in high quality. Having a fast card doesn't get optimal performance without a fast camera. Faster AF also.


I think they are both great cameras. With that said check out this members photos...she shoots with a G5! In my opinion photography is about the art, not the equipment. I agree with the person who said practice and learn. If what you have works, be happy you have what you need!

I know she won't mind me posting the link to her photo gallery:http://flickr.com/photos/imagesbyrenate/ Remember she is shooting with a G5!

Photography comes down to the photographer to take the image and use their creative eye. However, you need to have some equipment or you can't do everything you want to do all the time. There are just some things in sports for instance you can't do without the right equipment, for instance.

[ITMaster]

Hi Steve:

I too am a convert, I had the Digi Rebel 300D for a little over a year. As an amatuer photographer with over 35 years of shootinng Nikon 35 mm film experience behind me, I was astonished with the incredible features the 300D offered and was super amazed with the quality as well. Then my Rebel drowned in a freak boating accident and I wondered about replacing with another Rebel, or going with the 20D like many others. In fact, were it not for this forum and the positive accolades that everyone here had bestowed on the 20D, it would not have even been a consideration, I would have just gone out and purchased another Rebel; I think they call it a Rebel XT now. Everyone gave the same reasons for going with the 20D that have been listed here on your post. Guess what? They are pretty close to being about 150% correct. I am so impressed with the Speeeeeeeeed. As CyberDyne and others have said, it is incredibly fast, almost faster than light itself. There doesn't seem to be as much noise with the higher ISOs, the color saturation seems to be so much more pure and deep. My card from my Rebel was the only thing that I was able to salvage from the drowning incident. It was almost full. After downloading those images and shooting with the 20D, in the same location and environment as I was the night Ole Reb died, I have some comparison images to look at. The difference seems to me to be like day and night. The night images that I captured with the 20D vs. the 300D seem to have a lot more clarity, I can see much more of what was out there in the subdued lighting. If you can afford the 20D, I would say that if you get it, you will be very pleased with it. It really is fast. Also, I like the BW parameter feature and the filter selections, I like the ability to synthesize infrared, I like the little joy stick feature for moving pics around during the review and zoom applications, I like the fast start up when the camera has gone into snooze mode, I like the ability to capture more images faster than with the 300D, I like the camera over all and recommend it to anyone that takes this art form as a professional or a serious amatuer. And, the lenses are interchangeable. My 580EX Speed light will arrive in about an hour and I can't wait to see all the new stuff I can do. Hope you enjoy your new 20D, I know that you will get it now after hearing all the positive reasons to do so. Best of luck, Tom