Difference between Monaco XR and Pro

[lancea]

Can anyone confirm for sure whether the difference between the Monaco XR and Monaco XR Pro monitor-profiling systems is confined to the software only?

The Pro version rates a lot better in reviews, but is also considerably more expensive. If the only difference is the software, I may buy the XR package first then upgrade to the Pro software if it still seems necessary (or buy another software package that works with the sensor).

Thanks.

[lancea]

Thank you for your question :mrgreen: I found the answer in a pdf document on the Monaco site that describes the whole range. The sensor included in both packges is identical, and the Pro software can be bought by itself.

[blue_max]

I have just bought the xr non-pro version. I was advised against it and told they didn't sell many. It is indeed just the software that is different. I use it to calibrate my lcd screen and it works fine.

I just got the screen and as they are not known for being particularly colour accurate, felt it was a worthwhile purchase.

I think the pro software helps you edit the profiles for a printer or something –*and I don't have a colour printer. You can't do anything in colour without the monitor being right, so it's a good start. There are some packages that help you calibrate the camera also. They seem to work by shooting a series of pre-printed squares and analysing the colour and adjusting. I must look into it more.

Graham

[lancea]

Hi Graham. Thanks for that information. I've gone ahead and ordered the Pro version despite the extra $$$ - based on the review at http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration_tools.htm and other comments around the web. I almost certainly don't need the extra features (mostly around trending and profiling multiple monitors) but I just liked the bit about "monitor profile validation". :)

[blue_max]

I am sure it is a fine piece of kit.

I wonder whether the revues are based on the pro, because that is what they get sent. Keep us posted on your impressions. Mine just calibrates the monitor and gives an icc profile. Nothing more. I only have a rubbish pc monitor besides this, so the multiple monitor thing is a red herring for me – and the shop which sold it suggested that to map all monitors to the lowest common denominator would be foolhardy to say the least (fair point!).

Don't forget this is an international forum and sometimes it takes up to 24hours for people across different continents to view the messages. That's my excuse anyway.

Graham

[slin100]

I seem to recall that the Pro version has the option of generating both matrix and table-style ICC profiles. Table-style is supposed to be better for LCD screens. I think the Pro allows you to override a few settings which the non-Pro can't.

[blue_max]

I used to have a Radius PressView 21SR 21" calibrated crt monitor. It worked by sampling the screen and adjusting the cathode ray guns to balance the colour. This was hardware adjusting, not software. The calibration facility failed to work when the operating system advanced and the hardware changed, but was still working until very recently. I think you can get quite esoteric about these things. It never matched the printed item (to my eyes anyway). It cost £3000 and was as good as it got.

Now, I am more interested in consistency. If it's not perfect, at least it will always be the same.

matrix and table-style ICC profiles – now you lost me.

I have spent as little as possible to achieve a basic, repeatable, consistent point on screen. It has achieved my goal, but I would be interested to hear if you think it has given you a worthwhile upgrade.

Graham

[lancea]

Yeap. I appreciate the time differences. You'd be the most out-of-sync of anyone (or it could be me ;) ) in relation to New Zealand anyway. The time difference with the US often works really well - I can post a message or make a web purchase in the evening and in the morning I have a response!

There's a comparison on the Monaco site, and I think the Pro also included some white balance adjustment that looked useful. I'm looking forward to seeing how much difference it makes. It is pretty hard to get Adobe Gamma "just right". As for the test charts I've seen on the web (links on the sticky threads) I found them next to useless for adjusting gamma.

[blue_max]

There's a comparison on the Monaco site, and I think the Pro also included some white balance adjustment that looked useful. I'm looking forward to seeing how much difference it makes. It is pretty hard to get Adobe Gamma "just right". As for the test charts I've seen on the web (links on the sticky threads) I found them next to useless for adjusting gamma.

Do you have an lcd screen? My impression is that you should leave it at it's hardware gamma setting and allow the software to adjust it to suit. On crt's it's different I think.

Tell you what though – there is virtually no literature with it! Although you are guided through the process on screen. I did hope to bone up on it all, but zip!

It's hard to actually know if it is 'right' as there is actually nothing to compare it with. If you have any sort of printed material, then that's been through it's own process. I have some photos printed at a local photolab and they are rather duller than on screen. I would have to profile their set-up I suppose.

I always found that you could tweak stuff until a pic looked perfect, but the next one would be out. It's more of a consistent guide.

Please keep this going as I would love to hear your experience of this.

Graham

[lancea]

My main screen is a CRT, but I also use a laptop. Not sure what you mean by allowing the software on the LCD to adjust. The LCD also has a profile which will be used by any software that supports it. I see from the test results that the different profilers suit LCDs to varying degrees, but the Monaco came at pretty good for both CRT and LCD.

As for it being hard to know what's right - well of course that's what the colorimeter is for :) You can buy software (e.g. EZColor) that will let you use your Optix XR to calibrate your printer and scanner profile. That package comes with a test photo.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to do if the printer doesn't get it right - apart from go back or go to another one. The good ones will no doubt calibrate their hardware carefully as they will work frequently with other professionals who demand the right colour. It's been a while since I used a "pro" photolab, but they weren't cheap and I know they would redo something that wasn't right. My home inkjet is 3-4 years old now but it'd be nice to calibrate that too.

Still no sign that my order is shipping, so not sure when I'll be able to have fun (?) with it. Will let you know how it goes.

[blue_max]

My main screen is a CRT, but I also use a laptop. Not sure what you mean by allowing the software on the LCD to adjust. The LCD also has a profile which will be used by any software that supports it. I see from the test results that the different profilers suit LCDs to varying degrees, but the Monaco came at pretty good for both CRT and LCD.

As for it being hard to know what's right - well of course that's what the colorimeter is for :) You can buy software (e.g. EZColor) that will let you use your Optix XR to calibrate your printer and scanner profile. That package comes with a test photo.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to do if the printer doesn't get it right - apart from go back or go to another one. The good ones will no doubt calibrate their hardware carefully as they will work frequently with other professionals who demand the right colour. It's been a while since I used a "pro" photolab, but they weren't cheap and I know they would redo something that wasn't right. My home inkjet is 3-4 years old now but it'd be nice to calibrate that too.

Still no sign that my order is shipping, so not sure when I'll be able to have fun (?) with it. Will let you know how it goes.


I think the software will adjust each colour in each spectrum until it make the target colour. But if you choose a gamma other than the hardware gamma, you are effectively using some additional software to adjust the gamma and the monaco software is trying to adjust that. I may be completely wrong AND unintelligible.

I just have to trust that the monitor is right as I have no way of confirming it without additional software/hardware and scanners/printers.

The basic function of calibrating the printer is printing preset swatches, sending them off to be scanned with a densitometer. Feeding the readings into a profile and re-mapping the colours to allow for the difference if they are off. It can't not improve things, but I assume you can tweak the settings until it is spot on.

Hope you get yours soon.

Graham

[lancea]

Thanks for that Graham. Yeap - it has shipped and with essentially "free" shipping as Adorama had a 10%-off deal. It's always the shipping that hurts, especially when our customs people include that cost when calculating taxes. Colour management is so often the topic of threads and it's obvious most everyone struggles with it. So - I've ordered Bruce Fraser's "Real World Color Management" book as well. By the way - it's nice to come across someone else who spells correctly :)

[blue_max]

I look forward to the next instalment of our thread. I can't believe it's just you and me with one of these!

I am a graphic designer, so spelling is quite important in my trade. I was also educated in the 60's and mid 70's, wen wee woz taught proper.

Graham

[lancea]

I was thinking more in line with words like "colour" :) But same here, apart from being a few (and only a few) years earlier through the education system.

Most likely someone has done a survey about who uses a profiler, and what kind. Must have a look. The push for me to get one came from CyperPet's post about colour/saturation shifts when saving a JPEG for the web. My results got much better when I redid my monitor profile in Adobe Gamma. Then I received Scott Kelby's excellent "Photoshop CS2 Book for Digital Photographers" in which he states "I don't know of a single pro using the freebie software-only method [for monitor calibration]". While I'm not a pro, I've been taking photos for a good 40 years (I did start young!) and especially like colours to look right.

My box should arrive latish next week.

[lancea]

Hope you're still tracking this thread Graham. My MonacoOPTIX XR Pro has arrived. Got held up a day or two in California for "extra security checks" (according to the UPS tracking log). While I bought it for a very good price, I had to pay a heavier tax than usual to get it released :( Not sure why, but I guess the tax people always win in the end ...

My initial profile has produced something that looks too yellow. And oddly my cursors now look very light blue. I chose colour temperature of 6500 and gamma 2.2 - the same as I used for Adobe Gamma. But it looks so different. Anyone else had troubles like this? Maybe it's right now, but it sure doesn't look it (at least as far as whites are concerned).

Hah! Just did a search and found my answer in the thread at http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47039. Yellow it is :rolleyes:

[blue_max]

Hope you're still tracking this thread Graham. My MonacoOPTIX XR Pro has arrived. Got held up a day or two in California for "extra security checks" (according to the UPS tracking log). While I bought it for a very good price, I had to pay a heavier tax than usual to get it released :( Not sure why, but I guess the tax people always win in the end ...

My initial profile has produced something that looks too yellow. And oddly my cursors now look very light blue. I chose colour temperature of 6500 and gamma 2.2 - the same as I used for Adobe Gamma. But it looks so different. Anyone else had troubles like this? Maybe it's right now, but it sure doesn't look it (at least as far as whites are concerned).

Hah! Just did a search and found my answer in the thread at http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47039&highlight=monitor+temperature. Yellow it is :rolleyes:

Sure am!

The only step I was confused about, was when you are asked to adjust the monitor brightness. I use an Apple lcd and it's done in software, so I did try, but it seems to work on it's own as well. I am not sure whether I should even try. I get a profile, but it maybe could be better. I found this morning, that it seemed very bright and it seems to need to be re-acquainted with the profile. I will monitor the situation.

Have you found the need to delve into the software bundle yet?

Graham

[lancea]

Thought you might have come out here to join the Barmy Army! ;) There's quite a few wandering about Wellington at the moment. Hope you know what I'm talking about, but just in case - we're talking rugby fans from Britain following the Lions.

Only "hitch" with my monitor was that brightness adjustment. Mine's a Philips 109P40 so hardly low-end, but the software tells me there's not enough range and I have to do the manual brightness step. That was a bit of a shame as it took me back to Adobe Gamma - trying to tell exactly when the letter vanished into the blackness. Heck, I paid all the money and I still have to use my eyes? The overall result seems a bit dimmer.

It seems that the yellow appearance is correct, but that doesn't mean I like it (but I suppose I will get used to it).

So far I've just run the profile. The Pro feature to verify the profile looks moderately useful. I think I could have been happy with the standard, but it's done now and should last me a long time. As they say, it's not a purchase, it's an investment. :)

[tim]

Have you read this (http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc026a.htm)? Register, it's free and worth it.

[lancea]

Tim - you've posted that link several times. It goes to a registration page. What's there once you've registered?

[tim]

Register and find out! :p

It's a review of the products you're interested in.

[lancea]

But we've already bought them ... Thanks anyway Tim.

[tim]

Doh, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread!

Hey, I was just about to buy something similar, maybe I should just rent yours off you!

[lancea]

It's been my practice for quite a while that I read every review I can. Once I've bought the item I stop reading other or newer reviews in case they say something bad :)

[blue_max]

Thought you might have come out here to join the Barmy Army! ;) There's quite a few wandering about Wellington at the moment. Hope you know what I'm talking about, but just in case - we're talking rugby fans from Britain following the Lions.

Only "hitch" with my monitor was that brightness adjustment. Mine's a Philips 109P40 so hardly low-end, but the software tells me there's not enough range and I have to do the manual brightness step. That was a bit of a shame as it took me back to Adobe Gamma - trying to tell exactly when the letter vanished into the blackness. Heck, I paid all the money and I still have to use my eyes? The overall result seems a bit dimmer.

It seems that the yellow appearance is correct, but that doesn't mean I like it (but I suppose I will get used to it).

So far I've just run the profile. The Pro feature to verify the profile looks moderately useful. I think I could have been happy with the standard, but it's done now and should last me a long time. As they say, it's not a purchase, it's an investment. :)

I must confess that Barmy Army registered nothing with me – not a sports fan at all!

I assume you mean 'like Adobe Gamma' rather than the actual application as AG should be removed or disabled when you are using calibration software.

What does 'verifying the profile' actually do (I assume that if the programme wrote it, it would think it verified).

Graham
(made a few investments like that myself, in my time :lol: )

[lancea]

I'm not a sports fan either, but this tour is having a big impact. There's a heck of a lot (thousands, not sure of the exact number) of British folk in Wellington today. Sufficient numbers for some to have hired a cruise liner which is acting as their transport around the country and as a floating hotel. Easy to spot these British people as many are wearing red jackets. They are reportedly drinking very large quantities of beer (cold, I trust). And here's me thinking you were all tea totallers ;)

Anyway, I have Adobe Gamma still installed as per the instructions - just the loader isn't installed. For the price I'm sure this package should have come with a printed manual. You can hardly refer to the Acrobat version while doing the calibration.

The "verify profile" redisplays the colour swatches and compares it with what it should be. The results can be graphed over time. It's somewhat reassuring, and will give a good indication of how often I need to recalibrate.

I'm still not used to the white that doesn't seem white. Otherwise it has done the job well

[tim]

Wellington's bloody well packed full of people wearing red shirts!I live in the city and i'm staying home!

[blue_max]

I guess the white is 'page white' or the colour of a piece of paper.

Glad to hear it's working.

Graham

[lancea]

It certainly has been a revelation. I am however unable to get a response from X-Rite regarding a problem I'm having with activation. Three working days have gone by. Next it'll have to be a phone call.

The support pages are useful. Have you checked them out? Even explains why the cursors appear light blue after calibration. There's also free training at www.MeasureItRite.com (another X-Rite site).

[blue_max]

It certainly has been a revelation. I am however unable to get a response from X-Rite regarding a problem I'm having with activation. Three working days have gone by. Next it'll have to be a phone call.

The support pages are useful. Have you checked them out? Even explains why the cursors appear light blue after calibration. There's also free training at www.MeasureItRite.com (another X-Rite site).

Hi,

Yes I have seen the support pages. It's quite general. I might register for the training, but don't want to be spammed to death. To be honest, there is so little to it, that I don't imagine it can be much help with the standard package (let me know if I'm wrong please!).

What's your problem with activation? (they do use a strange mix of numbers and letters in the activation code and it may be the problem perhaps).

Graham

[lancea]

I've not received my activation code or codes, so the software is expiring! As for spam, I'd be happy to get some spam if it contains my code :) The training that looks of interest is around the theory of colour and colour management. So far I've only done the bit that convinces me I need to calibrate my monitor ...

[blue_max]

I've not received my activation code or codes, so the software is expiring! As for spam, I'd be happy to get some spam if it contains my code :) The training that looks of interest is around the theory of colour and colour management. So far I've only done the bit that convinces me I need to calibrate my monitor ...

From memory, I had to complete some sort of registration over the internet. They emailed the activation code. Didn't you?

Graham

[lancea]

Yeap. Difference is that my installations have to be activated. First method tried was direct from the application, second by email, third on their web pages, fourth by email to Support (using another address). It's the weekend now of course.

The problem seems to be that the first method partially worked as the serial number is in their database. Unfortunately that fact means I can't complete a web registration. Worst-case scenario is that I've been sold a copy that was already registered. :cry: I'm sure it will be sorted next week. :)

[blue_max]

Yeap. Difference is that my installations have to be activated. First method tried was direct from the application, second by email, third on their web pages, fourth by email to Support (using another address). It's the weekend now of course.

The problem seems to be that the first method partially worked as the serial number is in their database. Unfortunately that fact means I can't complete a web registration. Worst-case scenario is that I've been sold a copy that was already registered. :cry: I'm sure it will be sorted next week. :)

You misunderstand, mine needed the activation code to work too. It wasn't optional. It was emailed to me almost immediately. Are you just not getting the email?

Graham

[lancea]

Oh okay. Interesting. I thought that was just a pro thing because the standard package has an unlimited licence. Guess they still want to stop it being pirated.

I've checked all my email options - junk folder, spam folder at the ISP's end of things. Was your's just a text or HTML message? The only time I've ever seen my email provider drop things was when an encrypted file was included as an attachment.

[blue_max]

It was a text only message from "productregistration@xrite.com

It had all the details, including name, company, address, serial number and ACTIVATION CODE.

Yes, they are pretty hot it seems. I'm not sure how much use the software is without the hardware calibrator, but it would make it difficult to offer a moniter calibrating service, out of the office. I do wonder whether the pro version would use the same registration details.

Hope you find the email, if it was sent to you.

Graham

[lancea]

Thanks for that Graham. I'll probably find on Tuesday (their Monday) that they've been closed for some holiday or other and will be flooded with my emails :)

I'm finally getting used to the "new colours". Having a somewhat scientific background it is nice to feel that things are now "right".

[lancea]

Well - a flurry of emails overnight (does 3 count as a flurry? ;)) from X-Rite product support! I have my activation code. They also resent the automatic email that I should have received last week, and it came through to me with no problems. It's just possible that my ISP's email system deleted it. I get zero spam which is sometimes a worry as that indicates the filter might be a bit too effective.

[blue_max]

Well - a flurry of emails overnight (does 3 count as a flurry? ;)) from X-Rite product support! I have my activation code. They also resent the automatic email that I should have received last week, and it came through to me with no problems. It's just possible that my ISP's email system deleted it. I get zero spam which is sometimes a worry as that indicates the filter might be a bit too effective.

I guess if it came through with no problems it just wasn't sent, unless they sent it in a different way. Zero spam hey, you're not trying!

Hope it all works out. I may have to call them as sometimes I look at the screen and it seems light and I click on the profile and it sorts it out. Maybe the screen saver or something. There's always something!

Graham

[lancea]

I was touching wood when I wrote that I had zero spam ;) Goodness knows how much my ISP discards (you can check, but I only do that when I think I'm missing something).

I'm sure they'll be helpful. The responses I got were refreshing after recent experiences with a few US software companies. Some are seriously lacking pride in their products - or at least the customer support department is ...