building your packages

[momoe]

ok, I have a wedding in september and am a bit on edge about it. first time. anyway, the bride wants to know my prices and packages. I have some prices from a few labs but I dont know what quantity and sizes to include for proofs and what all to include in a package. any help would be great

[funlovincamera]

Generally speaking, there are two ways to price goods and services:


Figure out what it costs you (in terms of time and materials) and then add some arbitrary percentage as your margin (20%, 50%, 100%, etc)
Charge as much as someone is willing to pay you and whatever the difference between that and your expenses is becomes your margin


One strategy is to call the local photogs in your area and find out how much they charge then price yourself accordingly.

[RT McAllister]

You mean you already booked this wedding and haven't agreed on a price yet?

[tim]

Set a coverage fee, then set a fee for an album and a fee for the high res disk. You could discount the disk if an album's ordered. Albums cost more than you'd expect.

[momoe]

the fee isnt a problem. I wanted to know what you included in the packages. how many images are included? how many proofs? that sort of thing. some packages I have seen included books and canvas images. I can figure out the price by adding the percentage but what do people want in the package.

[sapearl]

On a package with full day's coverage I will give them 400 - 500 printed proofs in a presentation box. I've stopped including proof albums as too labor intensive. For the my 5x7 album they receive a book with 24 sides as well as an online gallery and an 8x10 enlargement.

The 12x10 (or thereabouts) album contains 24 sides of that dimension, plus an 11x14 plus all of the above. Now these are just my basic, starting configurations. They will grow from there. Pricing grows also. - Stu

[momoe]

On a package with full day's coverage I will give them 400 - 500 printed proofs in a presentation box. I've stopped including proof albums as too labor intensive. For the my 5x7 album they receive a book with 24 sides as well as an online gallery and an 8x10 enlargement.

The 12x10 (or thereabouts) album contains 24 sides of that dimension, plus an 11x14 plus all of the above. Now these are just my basic, starting configurations. They will grow from there. Pricing grows also. - Stu

thanks so much. this is what I have been looking for all over the net. some of the packages I have found have been just retarded with what they offer. I would rather go simple and let them add on to fit their needs.

anybody else have suggestions?

[form]

Completely subjective and there is no standard. DVDs, prints, albums, extras, it's all up to what you want to offer.

[sapearl]

You're welcome momoe ;).

After looking at a lot of sites myself, they seem to fall into two general categories. The first seems to go from around $300 - $1000 based on quality and experience level and is in general is just for time and 500 - 1000 high rez images on a DVD with personal reproduction rights. Keep in mind that I am very much generalizing this category.

The next tier, in general, is about $1500 and up, and includes the above, but with a medium sized album, also of 24 - 30 sides. Above $2k+ will get you the larger album with at least 24 sides. Again, I am generalizing and you will find all sorts of custom configurations. As Joey points out, much of it can be subjective but you will see certain pricing and package patterns. I know I have with all the sites if surfed the past couple of months. This actually does help discerning brides to comparison shop a "little" more easily.

Now, whether or not the photographer can get this sort of pricing is "generally" dependant upon his/her experience level, quality of portfolio, referral/references, and general web/brick & mortar mojo.

What have I missed Tim?;)


thanks so much. this is what I have been looking for all over the net. some of the packages I have found have been just retarded with what they offer. I would rather go simple and let them add on to fit their needs.

anybody else have suggestions?

[momoe]

well I am in tghe process of getting my state ID and officially opening my business. I have been shooting for about 10 years but recently made the jump to digital and more recently stepped into the professional ring. that said, my "experience" is rather low. I am doing this wedding for a friend so I dont feel the need to mark up the prices much but I need to put some info for the general public on my web site. I dont want to overcharge for my level but I dont want to take a bath and have everybody expect cheap work.

[PMCphotography]

I just stopped having "packages" and instead have a base shooting fee which includes the full rez photos, and a low rez disc of photos. Any other "extras" they want (a photobook, flipbook, an album, slideshow, engagement shoots[i don't like them, but do them if the couple want them], or print packages) they can select and build their own package.

I got tired of haggling about what was included in the packages-
i.e.

"what if I only want a 20 side album?"
"what if I didn't want the Engagement session?"
"what if i wanted some bizarre sizes in print, and a photobook but not the low rez disc?"

and so forth. this way they get exactly what they want.

[momoe]

I just stopped having "packages" and instead have a base shooting fee which includes the full rez photos, and a low rez disc of photos. Any other "extras" they want (a photobook, flipbook, an album, slideshow, engagement shoots[i don't like them, but do them if the couple want them], or print packages) they can select and build their own package.

I got tired of haggling about what was included in the packages-
i.e.

"what if I only want a 20 side album?"
"what if I didn't want the Engagement session?"
"what if i wanted some bizarre sizes in print, and a photobook but not the low rez disc?"

and so forth. this way they get exactly what they want.

great idea. less hassle for me

[sapearl]

And there's the rub that a lot of folks face just getting into this biz ;)...

you're trying to balance experience level with a friend's gig, with the need for portfolio material and with the concern for not type-casting yourself as that "cheap photographer." It's a tough call - people have to start out somewhere.

I've been shooting weddings since '74 but only went digital in 2006. A lot is the same but much is different. Your ability to deal with people is the same, be it analog or digital; same with business background. But workflow and technique is quite different than the analog past ;).


.... I have been shooting for about 10 years but recently made the jump to digital and more recently stepped into the professional ring. that said, my "experience" is rather low. I am doing this wedding for a friend so I dont feel the need to mark up the prices much but I need to put some info for the general public on my web site. I dont want to overcharge for my level but I dont want to take a bath and have everybody expect cheap work.

[PMCphotography]

It's worked well for me. This way if a couple doesn't have a big photography budget, they can still get some great pictures, and if they want all the add ons it's the price of what I used to offer it in a package for.

[momoe]

man I love this site. you all have given me more in an hour than I found in a month on the net and talking to other shooter.

thanks

[momoe]

ok, one last question. what is the average % you mark up the prints?

[sapearl]

Off the top of my head I don't recall..... however I see folks charging anywhere from $10 - 20 for a 5x7, and 15 - $25 for an 8x10.

Again, this is dependant upon market/geography, skill level, retouching, etc. Once you get into the larger sizes the whole dynamic changes. Images become formal portraits, art, matted or not, framed... canvas... the whole gamut.


ok, one last question. what is the average % you mark up the prints?

[momoe]

Off the top of my head I don't recall..... however I see folks charging anywhere from $10 - 20 for a 5x7, and 15 - $25 for an 8x10.

Again, this is dependant upon market/geography, skill level, retouching, etc. Once you get into the larger sizes the whole dynamic changes. Images become formal portraits, art, matted or not, framed... canvas... the whole gamut.

yeah, the whole large images and canvas scare me a bit. I have my cs4 set to the print standards of the lab I may use but havent sent off any of my images for testing yet. thats on my to do list. has anybody heard of or used CPQ labs? looking for some unbiased opinions of labs

[Mrsjperry]

C'mon PMC don't cha miss the haggling package buyers....just a lil?

:p

[PMCphotography]

C'mon PMC don't cha miss the haggling package buyers....just a lil?

:p

erm....

no.

:cool:

[sapearl]

Actually, I've rarely had people haggle with me about packages. Either I had what they were looking for or did not. Sometimes after I quoted my higher standard album packages they would state it was more than they wanted to spend. At that point I would quote them a less expensive "proofs & coverage" only package. This often clinched the deal, with no uncomfortable back and forth.

It's all in the way you present yourself and your packages. And these package structures developed over a period of years. I'm in the process of modifying them for "digital" now, but the core will still be similar.

[PMCphotography]

Well, haggling probably isn't the best word. "Substitutions" is probably a better word.

Far too many couples wanted to make so many changes to the packages that the way I do it now just seems so much easier for them...and me.

Albums have never been a big thing for my clients, in fact most wanted to not get it even if it was included in the package, for whatever reason. I have several sample albums that look great, but most of them think they would sit on the shelf gathering dust.

[momoe]

Deleted. Sorry

[PMCphotography]

I like the approach, but I think your engagement session is too overpriced. If your base package is 600, your engagement session is currently almost half that. That seems too much for what it is, really.

I'd personally get rid of the high rez 5x7 disc option. It seems a bit silly, and guaranteed they will try and make enlargements from it (which will then look terrible.)

Just my thoughts :)

[momoe]

good thoughts. what would you price the engagement session at? should I raise my base fee and keep it at that price?

[sapearl]

Perhaps raise your base price somewhate, reduce E-Session to $125, and then periodically throw it in for free as an incentive if times are lean or competition is rough.

good thoughts. what would you price the engagement session at? should I raise my base fee and keep it at that price?

[wndrlst]

In addition to what has been said, I'm not crazy about the phrase "copyright free." You either own the copyright or they do. I would personally never give them copyright (without big bucks, that is). What I would do is include a "license to print." There's a big legal difference, and I wouldn't want you to run into problems with it down the road. :)

[momoe]

In addition to what has been said, I'm not crazy about the phrase "copyright free." You either own the copyright or they do. I would personally never give them copyright (without big bucks, that is). What I would do is include a "license to print." There's a big legal difference, and I wouldn't want you to run into problems with it down the road. :)

huh. never knew there was a difference. thanks

[wndrlst]

If you hand over copyright, they become the owners of your intellectual property, meaning they can sell it for profit. Not only that, but you would then have to seek permission from them to use or display your own work. It wouldn't be yours anymore.

If you retain copyright, but grant them a non-commercial license, they can make prints, but can't sell them for profit or license them to another entity.

Hope that helps.

[ryyback]

If you hand over copyright, they become the owners of your intellectual property, meaning they can sell it for profit. Not only that, but you would then have to seek permission from them to use or display your own work. It wouldn't be yours anymore.

If you retain copyright, but grant them a non-commercial license, they can make prints, but can't sell them for profit or license them to another entity.

Hope that helps.

Kinda of like this Momoe- You keep the copyright (as you should) and the bride and groom get to make prints. Image Release is what it is referred to as.
Do you have wedding contract? You should have one.
Hope this helps.

While it is illegal to copy, scan, reproduce, or post online in forums elsewhere without the written permission of 520............, I/we will grant you permission and a perpetual, non-exclusive license to generate printed reproductions of the supplied files for personal, non-commercial use only.

[AD Photography]

Just an initial thought - your prices seem awfully low. Are you sure you'll end up making any money?? I know a lot of people think "it's just my time" but that adds up. And even though you are offering 4-6 hours of photography the day of, there are many more hours after the fact that you need to consider. When I first started I had my lowest package at 4 hours coverage, one photographer, with a high res DVD of images (license to print only) and it was $900. That I realized quickly was WAY too low. I have now raised my prices. Granted, I've raised what's in my packages too.

Here's a great link for help with how to determine your prices and your packages. At least it helped me a lot.

http://www.stacyreeves.com/greatestpricingguideever.pdf

Good luck!