Ahhh another colorspace thread

[charles_law]

Hi guys -

I know there are a lot of threads about colorspace but I havn't been able to find something with my exact problem.

Anywayz I take RAW files with my RebelXT in sRGB and and process them with Rawshooter Essentials.

It seems like when I convert my files into TIFF (sRGB) and preview the image in windows the colors are different (darker and with more red)

When I open the TIFF file in photoshop the colors are fine again.

When I try to 'Save to Web' the image the picture is darker with more red again.

Not sure what the problem is, I try different things but can't seem to get my JPEG's to be the same color as my RAW edit.

When exporting my file in Rawshooter in JPEG form (sRGB) my end result is the same dark with more red colors.

Any advice or comments?

thx.

[PacAce]

Most likely reason for your color problems is that your monitor has not been calibrated and profiled correctly. There are a few threads out there in this forum that discusses monitor calibration (do a search on "monitor calibration") which should explain what that is if you're not familiar with it or how to go about doing it.

Good luck. :)

[Jonny]

Agreed, its pretty pointless getting all your colour spaces set up without first calibrating your display.

[Jesper]

Anywayz I take RAW files with my RebelXT in sRGB and and process them with Rawshooter Essentials.The colour space setting on the camera doesn't matter when you're shooting RAW. You set the colour space of the output TIFF or JPEG in your RAW conversion software on the computer.

It seems like when I convert my files into TIFF (sRGB) and preview the image in windows the colors are different (darker and with more red)

When I open the TIFF file in photoshop the colors are fine again.That's because Photoshop is a colour management aware application and most other Windows software is not (including Windows Picture Viewer and Internet Exporer).

Photoshop knows how to display an image with an embedded ICC profile correctly; other applications don't, and show the image directly, without taking the ICC profile into account.

When I try to 'Save to Web' the image the picture is darker with more red again.You mean, it's darker in Photoshop or in other Windows apps? Normally, Save for Web leaves out the ICC profile (you can switch this on or off in the Save for Web dialog). If you save the image without ICC profile, load it again in Photoshop and choose "Don't manage colour" when Photoshop prompts you, it will look like in any other Windows application.

The others are right, it's good to calibrate and profile your monitor, preferrably with a hardware calibration device, but that will not guarantee that colours will look exactly right in both colour managed and non-colour managed applications.

The sRGB colour space was invented to match "the average monitor", so when you use sRGB, you should have a good chance that it will look OK on most monitors, but any specific monitor doesn't exactly match sRGB, so it's possible that you see small differences.

[charles_law]

You mean, it's darker in Photoshop or in other Windows apps? Normally, Save for Web leaves out the ICC profile (you can switch this on or off in the Save for Web dialog). If you save the image without ICC profile, load it again in Photoshop and choose "Don't manage colour" when Photoshop prompts you, it will look like in any other Windows application.


The preview of 'Save to Web' in photoshop is darker then my actual image that is being displayed in photoshop, this is what is confusing me.

Thx for the help guys I will calibrate my monitor too, right now all I've done with monitor calibration is install my monitor specific drivers, but could this is a monitor calibration problem as it displays different colors on the same monitor?

[Mernya]

One other possible reason is that the more you compress a JPEG, the smaller it's own color space.

[PacAce]

The preview of 'Save to Web' in photoshop is darker then my actual image that is being displayed in photoshop, this is what is confusing me.

Thx for the help guys I will calibrate my monitor too, right now all I've done with monitor calibration is install my monitor specific drivers, but could this is a monitor calibration problem as it displays different colors on the same monitor?
I'm 99.99% sure it's a monitor calibration problem. You'll find that only the color-managed application, such as Photoshop, are displaying the images differently from the other applications. This is because these apps are trying to convert an sRGB image (or whatever color space they are in) to an equivalent color for the monitor. If the monitor isn't calibrated, then the colors won't match up, even when trying to display an sRGB image. Non-color managed apps will not try to match up the colors to the monitor so you won't see the color changes there.

[Jonny]

The preview of 'Save to Web' in photoshop is darker then my actual image that is being displayed in photoshop, this is what is confusing me.




It could be that you have the colour profile for the 'Save for Web' utility in photoshop set to something different than your source document.

Open a file and go to save for web and click on the little arrow in the top right hand corner of the preview of the image : LIKE THIS

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.speed/Forums%20Pictures/screen1.jpg


AND THEN SELECT 'Use Document Colour Profile' : LIKE THIS

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.speed/Forums%20Pictures/screen2.jpg




Try this and see how you go.

[lancea]

Changing the "Save for Web" option will only delay seeing that the resulting JPEG isn't what you want. Based on what I've read in various places, my preference is to leave that setting on "Uncompensated color". That way, it shows what a non colour-managed viewer will show.

[charles_law]

It could be that you have the colour profile for the 'Save for Web' utility in photoshop set to something different than your source document.

Open a file and go to save for web and click on the little arrow in the top right hand corner of the preview of the image : LIKE THIS

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.speed/Forums%20Pictures/screen1.jpg


AND THEN SELECT 'Use Document Colour Profile' : LIKE THIS

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.speed/Forums%20Pictures/screen2.jpg




Try this and see how you go.

yes this was the problem! thx a lot...but the post after this tells me not to do this ? so by using the document color profile for saving the JPEG other computers will not see this image with the correct color profile?

[lancea]

Not quite and yes :). That particular setting determines only whether a profile is used when you are viewing the "Save for Web" preview. It's the "ICC" checkbox that determines whether a profile is saved with the JPEG. I'm not saying you can't do the later. It's just that a lot of the most common JPEG viewers (e.g. Internet Explorer) won't make use of any embedded profile. Therefore if you preview the image with "Use document color profile" chosen, you won't be seeing how it will look when someone views it on the web (unless they do so with a viewer that supports profiles).

Hope that's clearer.

[charles_law]

ooo...so is there a way to get the image to look the same on every computer? or is that just a dream :)

[lancea]

Definitely a dream! I must confess I was happier when I printed JPEGs from ThumbsPlus without a care in the world. Colours never looked great on my HP DeskJet 895Cxi, but I'd always put that down to the printer as it's not "today's technology". Prints coming out of my little Canon Selphy CP500 look great. Then I found out about colour spaces and profiles ... :confused: :rolleyes: :sad:

Gosh - I just checked and my DeskJet is 6 years old! Wish I hadn't looked as it might give me incentive to replace it when I've spent far far too much this year.

I'm still very much coming to grips with colour management but I think the following is the case: If you calibrate your monitor and create an accurate profile the colours will be correct in Photoshop. You then convert to sRGB and "Save to the Web". If you then open the jpeg in a non colour-managed viewer (such as Internet Explorer) it will look the same as it did in Photoshop provided your monitor controls are set correctly to match sRGB. If your monitor controls are not correct (or for technical reasons the monitor itself can't match sRGB) then the only way to see the correct colours is to view the jpeg in a viewer that supports profiles.

I know there's also issues with some Mac systems using a different gamma to PCs. Linux might be different again. In that case they will only see the same colours as you if they use a viewer that supports the profile you may have chosen to embed in the jpeg.

If the above is incorrect, I'd be very happy if someone puts me right!

[Jesper]

One other possible reason is that the more you compress a JPEG, the smaller it's own color space.No, JPEG compression doesn't have anything to do with the gamut of the colour space. Changing the compression setting for a JPEG does not change the colours in the image. It just throws away more of the fine detail in the image, and if you set the compression too high, you'll see strange, ugly blocky artifacts.

[Jesper]

ooo...so is there a way to get the image to look the same on every computer? or is that just a dream :)That is just a dream.... :confused:

No two monitors are the same, even two of the same kind might display colours a little differently, the brightness / contrast etc. settings are most likely not the same, the video card in the computer etc. are all factors that have an influence on how colours are displayed.

If everybody would calibrate and profile their monitor and if everyone would use colour management aware software, images would look more or less the same on every computer (and even then some people will have good and some people will have bad monitors...).