Please help me.....looking to start up a business.

[MonteMiles]

Im looking to start up my own photography business (weddings,senior pics, etc). Ive only been shooting with a DSLR for about a year now. But man this is addicting stuff.

Im looking at buying a Canon T1i. Proably 2 of them. Also looking at buying the Canon 100-400mm L Lens for wildlife photography.

What do I need to do to start up a business? Any helpful hints would be appreicated. And please no comments on a rookie shouldnt do this! We all start sometime and somewhere. Thanks again

[ANphotography]

Busniess liscense

Contract

Model Release

Website/blog

Portfolio

Those are just a few off the top of my head

[MonteMiles]

Is 2 cameras enough? Any guesses on approx start up costs?

[Karl Johnston]

Anywhere between 10-100 thousand dollars depending on what you do and how you do it :D

[MonteMiles]

100k huh? Yeah that isnt happening

[philwillmedia]

Depending on what your photography business will be doing but a...

Minimum of at least one 1D series body and nothing less than 40D as second body.
Selection of lenses - too many to mention but depending on what you do.
At least one decent flash - minimum 540EZ, but that doesn't have ETTL. 580EX is almost standard these days.
Decent computer and processing software

Minimum 10-15k so far without adding other accessories - and that's just the bare neccessities for gear.

Then add to that office equipment and consumables, insurance and all the other hidden extras that slap you in the face after you've forgotten to think about them or don't think you need until you do

Oh...and did I mention experience and understanding your craft.

Maybe take a step back, well maybe a whole load of steps back and learn about all aspects of photography before you go taking on a load of stuff that you probably have no idea about.

What have you budgeted for gear and set up costs??

[MonteMiles]

So your telling me nobody is making it in this business unless they at least have a 1D body? I find that hard to believe and in fact I know thats not true. I have 2 friends that have their own business and their main camera is the Nikon D90. And both are doing just fine. Im sure the 1D is far superior to Canon T1i or the 50D (both of which Im debating) but to say that is the minimum is just not right.

And to clear something up, I would like to start up this business as a part time income and see where it leads. And I knew it wouldnt take long to hear about the lack of experience. I understand experience plays a vital role in being successful but like I said we all start somewhere.

I just dropped 7k on 2 video cameras (Canon XHA1) and another 2k on a video/photo editing computer.

Again Thanks for all the help

[ANphotography]

So your telling me nobody is making it in this business unless they at least have a 1D body? I find that hard to believe and in fact I know thats not true. I have 2 friends that have their own business and their main camera is the Nikon D90. And both are doing just fine. Im sure the 1D is far superior to Canon T1i or the 50D (both of which Im debating) but to say that is the minimum is just not right.

And to clear something up, I would like to start up this business as a part time income and see where it leads. And I knew it wouldnt take long to hear about the lack of experience. I understand experience plays a vital role in being successful but like I said we all start somewhere.

I just dropped 7k on 2 video cameras (Canon XHA1) and another 2k on a video/photo editing computer.

Again Thanks for all the help

I know 2 professional photographers that make a decent living. One has the T1i and the other has a 50D

[MonteMiles]

Which body do you think would be best for me? Im leaning towards a T1i and use the saved money on a nice L lens. Opinions on that?

[Karl Johnston]

I think you should learn more about the photography before considering the business

Why rush?

[Fernando]

If you're really talking about starting a business, not just a hobby turned freelance photography then the first thing you need is an accountant. The second is an attorney. The third is contact information for your local "business incubator". Usually the local Chamber of Commerce is a good place to start.

Business start-ups are no joke and without at least being advised by these folks then you're either a hobbyist making a little money or a failed business.

-F

[Karl Johnston]

I dunno how things work in the USA but generally in all business you want to know what you're doing before you start offering a service.

Work for friends and family, with relatives, practise on them to build up a portfolio. I've only had a handful of paid portrait shoots, though I have experience in a good 20+ now. People will appreciate it and you will grow a lot faster, as a business, if your work is consistent and keeps people interested.

Build up relationships is the most important thing you could want to do as a business.

A lot of times a photo business is more business than photo, so it's important to take things slow and easy. Why are you buying video equipment if you want to go into senior pics? Slow down, learn what you want to do, take some pics and enjoy what you're doing.

[tim]

The wedding FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=255604) covers gear. I should really update it some time though.

[Dennis_Hammer]

First and foremost do a REAL business plan soup to nuts. That process alone (along with the related research involved) will open your eyes to whats involved, whats need and the funds necessary for a full start up.

[jra]

Start small....offer "free" sessions for family and friends, only charging for prints. This will help build your portfolio and experience. Another decent way to gain experience is to sign up with Model Mayhem and do TFP/CD shoots. This will help you add variety into your portfolio and allow you to experiment with different ideas.
Also, start a web site....somewhere you can showcase your work and refer people to. And just keep shooting and trying new things and practicing.
Once your comfortable enough to start shooting clients for hire, you can start marketing and advertising. Talk to people and pass out cards...IME, word of mouth has been the best way to get business. There's also the general business stuff you have to do for any small business such as getting licensed, taxes, deciding on pricing, etc...

[Marius B]

How many weddings have you shot?
Do you have a website?
Does your work stand out?

I am not trying to talk you down, I havent seen any of your work, but I believe I am in a similar position as you. Have been into this world of DSLR for two years now, shooting for fun. I have shot cars, kids,portraits, landscapes and 1 wedding. I have had 4 requests that wants me to shoot their wedding this summer. But I have turned them all down because of my lack of experience. It is not like you can go back the next day to shoot the ones you missed. I try to use my knowledge an recommend them a good photographer for their wedding.

I have started a personal company (sidebusiness), and would love to bring in some cash to pay for all the equipment. But I think I will start with car session, kids and portraits. And maybe sell som landscape pictures if I get any good ones. I am not rushing into this. (the webshop on my website is just a test:) )

www.bottolfsen.com

Click on images to start a slideshow

[MonteMiles]

I by no means am planning on rushing into things. Just feeling things out and looking for ideas.

[Marius B]

I by no means am planning on rushing into things. Just feeling things out and looking for ideas.

I totally understand, I guess my little knowledge of starting business here in Norway wont do you much good :)

If you hang around for a while I believe you will find great info on this forum. And if you share some of your work here on the forum and show what you can do, you will probably get more help. I must admit that when I first looked at your post, I assumed this, and believe others do too:

New member on the forum 8 posts, all about starting a business. Bought a DSLR 1 year ago, wanting to shoot pro = beginner

For all I know you can have several years experience with SLR (or have an increddible talent) and know everything about exposure, composition and different tecnichs++

This forum has proffesional photographers, part time photographers, hobby photographers and beginners. Keep posting and learn alot :)

Welcome to POTN :)

And if you wonder, I see myself as a hobby photographer.
Everybody can spray and pray :)

[jra]

I by no means am planning on rushing into things. Just feeling things out and looking for ideas.

That's a good thing. When it comes to weddings, you want to make sure that you are completely confidant that you can get the shot. You only get a single chance and you can't afford to make mistakes. If you eventually decide to get into weddings, you'll also need back ups of everything. If a piece of equipment fails, you need to have another ready to go....there's often no time to fiddle with equipment or settings if things get screwy.

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

Take small steps. Realize you need to have above average skills, not only as a photographer but also as a buisness/marketing person and that comes lst. STAY OUR TO DEBT.

[GW2]

One year and a shoestring budget are not obstacles to starting a business. You can shoot a ton of frames and have learned a lot in a year. Is this a passing interest, or are you really interested in making this work?

I'm going to be brutally honest here. You ask about starting a business to shoot weddings with a T1 or 50D on one hand and talk about buying a 100-400L for wildlife in the next. There lacks some continuity in this thinking. Not to discourage, but get your priorities in order if you want top do this and use your capital wisely. 5Ds or a 5DII for weddings and portraits instead? Or a 5D and a website?

My advice would be that you think more about some real obstacles like liability, especially if you are shooting weddings. What if you lose a card (or one dies) and there are no photos. Many dugging togs don't think and get by. But, returning the money is not nearly enough. Not to be a complete downer, I just think you need to think about the downside of business as well. Photography business is 90% business and 10% doing the stuff you love. That 10% may be more than many people get to do, but realize that all business is work.

If you are really stoked on the opportunity, get serious and go for it. There is lots of advice on here.

[Mark1]

Going from a hobby to a business is like going from speeding on the highway, to the last 10 laps in a NASCAR race. From the stands, they both are just driving fast. But from in the car, there is not very much that is the same.

Give us a list of what equipment you already have. What your first year budget is (money you can throw into more equipment and marketing)...etc..etc

As mentioned there are a few things you are required to get that have nothing to do with your business per se. Such as the business licences. Insurance on the equipment,if you make money with the equipment it is no longer covered by a homeowners policy. Getting the contract written-- and other forms... model release...etc. While none of these are really that expensive, they can set back your budget for equipment. And it is possible to do work on the side with out it... but is not worth the chance.

[GW2]

Expensive photography equipment, like jewelry, is not necessarily covered by homeowners. You probably need a personal articles floater anyway. All hobbyists should check with their insurance agent.

[Nightstalker]

How many weddings have you shot?
Do you have a website?
Does your work stand out?

I am not trying to talk you down, I havent seen any of your work, but I believe I am in a similar position as you. Have been into this world of DSLR for two years now, shooting for fun. I have shot cars, kids,portraits, landscapes and 1 wedding. I have had 4 requests that wants me to shoot their wedding this summer. But I have turned them all down because of my lack of experience. It is not like you can go back the next day to shoot the ones you missed. I try to use my knowledge an recommend them a good photographer for their wedding.

I have started a personal company (sidebusiness), and would love to bring in some cash to pay for all the equipment. But I think I will start with car session, kids and portraits. And maybe sell som landscape pictures if I get any good ones. I am not rushing into this. (the webshop on my website is just a test:) )

www.bottolfsen.com

Click on images to start a slideshow


You, like I, seem to have some ethics about not wanting to risk someone's wedding day by screwing up.

I have to say that I think these days we are in the minority and there are a lot of people out there that will buy a DSLR and immediately see it as a means to make money.

[draagyn]

I would recommend a 40D/50D over the T1i if you are planning on working for hire. I have found the XXD (ie. 50D) and higher cameras with the scroll wheel are so much easier and quicker to work with (in regards to controls/settings) that they are well worth any extra investment.

[mindundalk]

This might help
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=812696

[Shawn_BS]

Monte, I am also eventually looking to start up my own business, but at the moment I'm currently going to school and looking for a job with the Sears portrait studio, Glamor Shots, or something like that to get in some experience. If your really ready to go right out of the gates, pickup this book. "The Photographers Guide to Marketing and Self-Promotion" by Maria Piscopo. It has a ton of start up information, how to organize your files and portfolio, marketing tips to get your name out there, and so much more. I highly recommend it!

[Mark1]

I'm currently going to school and looking for a job with the Sears portrait studio, Glamor Shots, or something like that to get in some experience.

This is like working at McDonalds while learning to be a French Gourmet Chef. Yes you will learn customer relations but nothing to do with cooking. Sears and GS are fine to learn the people side and some of the back office. But don't expect to learn anything photographic there. I have known people that were fired for adjusting the lights. I am not kidding!!! They have 1 formula that they use on everything, and if you mess with it you are gone!

[Marius B]

You, like I, seem to have some ethics about not wanting to risk someone's wedding day by screwing up.

I have to say that I think these days we are in the minority and there are a lot of people out there that will buy a DSLR and immediately see it as a means to make money.

I guess beeing here on POTN has made me realise how good the greatest are. And maybe most Bride & groom doesn't have the same expectations, but I will not stand in the way of somebody getting the best weddingpictures possible.

Edit: There are several fantastic wedding photographers here, but I happened to read KJImages blog http://www.thekjblog.com/ and I will never forget the images I first saw here. If I am getting married, I will ask if he wants to come to Norway for a shoot :)

[Marius B]

To the OP MonteMiles

Have you considered bying a 5D classic? I love mine, and since I got it havent used my 40D alot. What lens do you have? 24-70 f2,8 and 70-200 f2,8 IS is a great combo, my next purchase will be 35L and 135L so if you are a prime type of guy, maybe those will do.

[cards42]

Mark1 Please keep the analogies coming! I love them. Monte good luck bud! Like some others have said get a 50D instead of the T1i.

[Shawn_BS]

This is like working at McDonalds while learning to be a French Gourmet Chef. Yes you will learn customer relations but nothing to do with cooking. Sears and GS are fine to learn the people side and some of the back office. But don't expect to learn anything photographic there. I have known people that were fired for adjusting the lights. I am not kidding!!! They have 1 formula that they use on everything, and if you mess with it you are gone!

So how would you recommend gaining experience in photography, running a shoot with a model, while "trying" be get paid? Im open to any suggestions, ive heard they are fine to work with but being ive never done any of that before, starting out is tough =\

[philwillmedia]

So how would you recommend gaining experience in photography, running a shoot with a model, while "trying" be get paid? Im open to any suggestions...

Try getting some experience with a dedicated weeding photographer/studio as, first an assistant being a gofa ( go fa this, go fa that etc), holding reflectors and all the other stuff that everyone hates doing. Then progress to second shooter etc, then once you've learnt a bit about the craft progress further.

Except when learning to swim, start at the bottom.

[Mark1]

So how would you recommend gaining experience in photography, running a shoot with a model, while "trying" be get paid? Im open to any suggestions, ive heard they are fine to work with but being ive never done any of that before, starting out is tough =\



They are fine to work for, just not to learn from. Simply mopping the floor at a real studio will teach you more about photography than even managing a GC, or a "studio" like sears, wal-mart...etc.. Not only will you learn more than 1 light set up for studio work, you will learn location lighting.... plus if you do a good job...logistics, project management, project, coordination, make up artists/hair (how to find one), wardrobe people... the list is endless. A " studio" in the mall is pre-set for maximum profit. at the expense of everything else. Think mass production vs, custom. Assembly line vs. hand built.

[spkerer]

Do you enjoy photography as a relaxing hobby? If so, think about how doing "paid jobs" will change that. You'll no longer be shooting what you enjoy on your own schedule, but rather you'll be shooting what others want you to shoot at their schedule and with their conditions.

If you're considering wedding photography, I would strongly suggest carefully watching a good photographer all throughout a wedding and reception - whether just carefully watching one at a wedding you're already attending or working as a second shooter. Look at the skills particular to wedding photography that are required.

Also consider that while you need to have the photography skills to deliver the goods, you'll also have to spend significant amounts of time on non-photography tasks - advertising, managing difficult customers, etc.

I'm not telling you not to do it, but as others have said - do your homework setting up a business plan and be fully aware of the work involved that doesn't involve having a camera in your hands.

[Karl Johnston]

By all means, I encourage you to start up.

Though buying your way into the business is sure to lose. I learned that the hard way. I'm downsizing my equipment by half to generate enough money to spend more effectively on real business expenses.

Pick up a good cam, any good cam, and a lens, any lens.

There's a top notch glamor photog on here shooting a 20D and a 50 1.8. I can't remember his name though. Total equipment is less than 1000 bucks I'm betting.

[Shawn_BS]

They are fine to work for, just not to learn from. Simply mopping the floor at a real studio will teach you more about photography than even managing a GC, or a "studio" like sears, wal-mart...etc.. Not only will you learn more than 1 light set up for studio work, you will learn location lighting.... plus if you do a good job...logistics, project management, project, coordination, make up artists/hair (how to find one), wardrobe people... the list is endless. A " studio" in the mall is pre-set for maximum profit. at the expense of everything else. Think mass production vs, custom. Assembly line vs. hand built.

I definatly agree with that. Ive never been to a GS studio or anything like that, just assumed they work like a normal studio would. I was looking forward to learning the different lighting set ups and such too lol. Guess next stop is Craigslist to see if theres anyone around. Other then driving to NY or Philly, I dont believe there are too many studios around NJ

[Mark1]

You will be surprised where you might find a studio that needs help. One place to start is join a local camera club, at least the one here is about half working pros, but it is a very active club. Start by doing freelance assisting. Let them know you are just starting out but are willing to carry the bags to earn your way. Everybody has a job now and then where they need a extra hand. This will be your "in". Do EXACTLY what the photographer asks, second guess NOTHING (at first) Soon you will find a place on a team and off you go on your way!

[Doc Fluty]

i own my own business (not photograghy) and let me tell you there are so many costs that you never even think of.

getting an LLC, insurance, trademark, lawyers, gas, maintenance, business cards, designing a logo, fliers and other promotional stuff..

then you get into equipment.. gota have at least two bodies, wide lens for group photos, telephoto at least a 2.8 to get shots without having to be too close.. like at a wedding where the light sucks and the pics HAVE TO BE PERFECT. memory cards, photoshop, extra batteries, flashes, filters, a computer, tripod, monopod, reflectors... many other things..

so yeah.. you can drop $10,000 easy (not even including strobes & lights) doing things the right way... OR you can get a $850 camera with a kit lens and start charging people...

[Shawn_BS]

Thanks Mark, i'll definatly look into a local camera club and see what I can find

[linh811]

i own my own business (not photograghy) and let me tell you there are so many costs that you never even think of.

getting an LLC, insurance, trademark, lawyers, gas, maintenance, business cards, designing a logo, fliers and other promotional stuff..

then you get into equipment.. gota have at least two bodies, wide lens for group photos, telephoto at least a 2.8 to get shots without having to be too close.. like at a wedding where the light sucks and the pics HAVE TO BE PERFECT. memory cards, photoshop, extra batteries, flashes, filters, a computer, tripod, monopod, reflectors... many other things..

so yeah.. you can drop $10,000 easy (not even including strobes & lights) doing things the right way... OR you can get a $850 camera with a kit lens and start charging people...

ditto for me. I don't know much about the photography business, but generally speaking most small businesses are similar, in my business marketing is everything. Make sure you set aside enough time/money to market market market....

[MonteMiles]

Business side of things are not an issue for me. Have helped run my fathers business for quite some time. Another guy and I are already starting a outdoor show (which will include alot of photography). LLC's,logos,trademarks are already taken care of. But obviously that doesnt entail wedding/senior pics, etc.

Right now my plan is to get a good camera and the 100-400mm L lens. And really get some good experience filming nature and wildlife. And if in a year or 2 I want to start my own photography business then Ill dive in. Like I said before Im not gonna jump into this.....Just wanted to get a feel for everything.

Photography is fairly new to me but man its addicting. Its something I enjoy. People always said when I started videoing that you will soon lose the passion for it if it becomes a business. That hasnt happened and Ive been doing it for 3 yrs now (I know not a long time). Every time I go out, I learn something and have more respect for those that do this for a living.

Some asked about my budget. I would say my budget for a body kit lens is around the 1,500 mark. But the kicker is has to be through Best Buy. We just dropped 7,000 on 2 video cameras. Another
1,000 on logo design,trademarks, copy-rights, LLC's. And in the near future we are dropping another 2,000 on computer for video and photo editing. We have another 1,300 in cash saved up for the 100-400mm L Lens. At that price I figured we could find a good used lens.

I spent the last 2 days debating on the body. I think the T1i is out. Just seems "cheap" in my hands. Im sure its a great camera but just dont feel right in my hand. So now its basically down to the 50D although the 7d looks nice. But is a little out of our price range.

Again I appreciate and respect everyones opinion on this site. Im a newbie here but plan to stay a while!

[Utah7]

Hard work and Lots of it - But dont let any one on here tell you that it cant be done on anything less then a 1D because thats just rubbish...... If you want something bad enough and have the drive you can achieve what you set out for. I broke into this industry 6 years ago and was told exactly the same. But i set a goal starting with weekly, then monthly and yearly... then set about achieving each goal.

Now i get to Travel world getting paid covering all the major Sports events (in melb for Australian Open Tennis at the moment) then Brisbane for International cricket then off to Vancouver for Winter Olympics...I have filled an entire Australian passport in little over 12 months.. You can do it and surprisingly dont let people tell you that you need to spend massive amounts of money....

Work hard and let nothing step un your way.... Of course you can do it.

[elysium]

Is 2 cameras enough? Any guesses on approx start up costs?
Start up costs will vary. I started mine up with £3.50 to my name.

IMO, your prices MUST reflect your image, cover your camera gear (in the long run), your ability, your services (including prints/cd's/cards/offers) and how you provide time to someone.

I would say your first priority is sorting out an image for yourself and then market that first since gear can be purchased accordingly.

1 camera is enough but depends on what you are aiming to do.

I would say before even considering launching into a bussiness is have either a physical portfolio or online one setup.

With the amount of competition out there, you advertising as a photographer but no proof of your work or one or two images will not be enough. This also applies to the relevance of your work. No point of you advertising as a wedding photographer if you only show them one shot or nothing related to weddings.

Im sure you get the idea. Just think about it this way, when do you find you have received good service from a company? Usually good products and good services throughout.

[pcj]

I think it's safe to say that for every professional photographer you speak to, you will find another way to start a photography business :D

I've been shooting with my first DSLR since I bought it brand new (XTI), and have slowly added a lens or two, software here or there, been paid cash for a shoot or three. While I have a website and business cards, and advertise myself under a company name - I don't charge a lot, carry insurance or have a business license (both of these are in my 2010 plan though).

I'm taking everything organically - and as I outgrow one thing or another, I replace it, upgrade it. When I first picked up my XTI in auto mode, I had no clue where I'd end up, what niche I'd find in photography (or how expensive it would be to get here!)

Today, I'm shooting the local belly dance community in a home studio and selling some prints and occasionally charging a sitting fee.

For my money's worth, there is nothing better than experience - money can't buy that. I read blogs, click through flickr, invite dancers into the studio for free shoots constantly - I try new effects (I plan on experimenting with a lace gobo on my softbox during a shoot this weekend), and once I've done enough of those, I offer them for a modest sitting fee and sell prints through an online proofing gallery. I still shoot with an XTI (although I am sorely tempted to upgrade to a 50D soon). If I ever decide to go Pro or full time, then I can worry about getting the "right" tools then.

Equipment isn't everything - finding your niche, getting the right experience and reading everything in site will do you much more good than an expensive investment in camera's today.

[Karl Johnston]

Hell who are we to tell you any different. if you want to do it, do it.

[Utah7]

Hell who are we to tell you any different. if you want to do it, do it.

Spot on Karl...... There seems to be too many Semi-professionals putting a negative spin on the industry. this maybe because they fear more competition or just plain jealously...who knows... Its a great industry that has served me extremely well. I have made some amazing friends out of it who are also doing very well...mainly due to the fact that they have applied themselves to there trade and made it work...Dont be lazy and wait for some one to spoon feed you that dream assignment....get out there and tear it up and prove all the self doubters and less then positive preachers wrong....

p.s. Hey KArl - love your contry ...was in Vancouver, Whistler and Banff in November covering the Olympic trials...back there in 2 1/2 weeks...cant wait...OH CANADA !!